CroCop won both rounds but was disinterested. For me it was similar in a way to Machida-Shogun. JDS was doing the stalking and being more agressive but Mirko was landing the far better shots and was in danger at all. Had Mirko even put 50% of his heart into round 3 he'd have won that fight easily.
CroCop won both rounds but was disinterested. For me it was similar in a way to Machida-Shogun. JDS was doing the stalking and being more agressive but Mirko was landing the far better shots and was in danger at all. Had Mirko even put 50% of his heart into round 3 he'd have won that fight easily[/quote]
Ye thats it, thats the only reason Cro Cop lost
How do see the Rothwell fight going (if it happens) ?
If Cro Cop wins then that would show he isn't that bad, JDS was good. If Rothwell wins then Dos Santos beat a shot fighter who shouldn't have been there with him in the start. I want DS to get credit but he is unlikely to get it either way so Rothwell winning is fine with me. I think Rothwell, if he trains right should win this one, just blow on Cro Cops eye or something and he'll be tapping in no time.
ChelseaQuinsfan I think Mirko only lost beause his head wasnt in it. I had him loosing on the score cards but there were shots he landed, he didnt look physically bad or slow or weak, he just wasnt agressive and really really didnt want to get punched in the face! It says a lot about the mindset of a guy who shared the ring with Hoost etc.. in Pride and was scared to exchange with JDS. His head hasnt been in it since Gonzaga.
He has got passed some poor opposition because if there isnt a lot coming back from an overmatched opponent he is ok. Put him in a ring with Ben Rothwell another big slugger who will try to knock Mirkos head off and I think Crocop wont have an answer. If the Crocop who doesnt want to get punched in the face turns up he is going to loose. Rothwell isnt great but he isnt Al Turk or Tatsuya Mizuno?? I dont a half hearted Crocop is going to do anything. Time and time again he has said a new Crocop will turn up. You can never guess a fighers mindset but I dont have faith Crocop will turned up againt Rothwell. I see the same Mirko we have saw for a while. Just like Tyson went, he was still in there in the ring but it wasnt him, his head was a million miles away.
When Tito said after the Griffin fight that he had an injury everyone groaned and said "same old Tito." With good reason to, he spent the entire countdown show talking about how he was now 100 per cent. Not only that, he said it in every interview he had.
So what does this have to do with Cro Cop? He said he was back to his best, he had the hunger back, he wanted the title all before the fight. Then-guess what happens after he loses?
Maybe his head isn't in it, but then don't put him against someone who does and worst yet quit before the end. His eye wasn't seriously damaged, ive seen way worse eye pokes, look at what happened with Franklin during the Hendo fight and GSP during the first BJ fight.
Your right, if he doesn't want to get hit he will lose miserably against Rothwell. And the problem he has, is he has no plan b.
Chelsea the reason JDS isnt getting as much credit as u think he deserves is because after the fight all people were talking about was how bad Mirko was, and how shot he is.
Also as i am sure you will agree, JDS was not at his best during the fight, he showed too much respect for Crocop i thought, im sure Nog warned him about all the bad things he could expect from Crocop (that were never going to materialise during that fight)
Thats why he got better as the fight progressed, when he knew he can swing and hit more freely, he gave Crocop a beating in 3rd round.
He will be a real force in the future i think, probably already is now
Also as i am sure you will agree, JDS was not at his best during the fight, he showed too much respect for Crocop i thought, im sure Nog warned him about all the bad things he could expect from Crocop (that were never going to materialise during that fight)
I 100 per cent agree, he was giving Cro Cop waaay too much respect and was probably nervous. At the same time I don't think he was expecting Cro Cop to be ducking his head and pushing his chest. He wasn't as good as he had previously been because of the respect factor. However had he known Cro Crop was going to be Cro Crap and fight like that he would've come in flying like he had previously. You saw that in the second round and when he got into his game he finished Cro Cop in 2 minutes.
ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:When Tito said after the Griffin fight that he had an injury everyone groaned and said "same old Tito." With good reason to, he spent the entire countdown show talking about how he was now 100 per cent. Not only that, he said it in every interview he had.
So what does this have to do with Cro Cop? He said he was back to his best, he had the hunger back, he wanted the title all before the fight. Then-guess what happens after he loses?
Maybe his head isn't in it, but then don't put him against someone who does and worst yet quit before the end. His eye wasn't seriously damaged, ive seen way worse eye pokes, look at what happened with Franklin during the Hendo fight and GSP during the first BJ fight.
Your right, if he doesn't want to get hit he will lose miserably against Rothwell. And the problem he has, is he has no plan b.
at least Mirko doesnt make lame excuses for his losses, he said it wasn't the kind of fight people would pay to see, and he was ashamed afterwards.
at least Mirko doesnt make lame excuses for his losses, he said it wasn't the kind of fight people would pay to see, and he was ashamed afterwards.
So he deserves credit for losing with dignity? Listen im a Tito fan but Tito is what he is and thats not a respectful fighter. I just kind of expect him to be a dick and so does everyone else. Comparing to Cro Cop to Tito in that situation is like Houstan Alexander's ground game is better than Kimbo's. Its true but its not a big achievement.
It was never the response that pissed me off, it was the way he hyped the fight.
Well put, im know Crocop lost a few fans by saying he was ready to make a go of it again and they turned up and fought timidly again. The thing is Titos body let him down, he is just really 1 dimentional and his striking isnt fluid... never will be, His Cardio also Let him down. Mirko doesn have these problems which its harder to watch, he just looks like he wants to get out of there with his paycheck and not get mangled in the process. I dont think he has Hunger to do well in the sport anymore. Cant teach an old dog new tricks, If Roach cant make Tito Box no one can! Crocop could just wake up tomorrow feeling back to his old self and be one of the better heavys in UFC, Thats the most frustrating thing about him.
I think JDS may have been nervous, going in against a legend is intimidating and im sure your right Nog probabally had him well warned but Many people werent impressed with his performance, I think he needs to tighten up his striking a bit. His Ko's were a little wild looking. Have to see more of his ground game to judge propperly but I think his striking could be a bit more refined if he is to get to the top. I suppose Training with Lil Nog will be a good thing for him. He has strength and handspeed but tightening up his boxing will sort him out. Who you think will be next for him? I really do think Pat Barry would work, Granted they are on different levels but both are strikers and would put on a show, After Barry smashing Hardonk to peices im sure its a passible fight with a fighter in really good form.... plus theres no one else thats ready to go that springs to mind!
Exactly, why say it and then fight like that? People got all excited after he beat MOUSTAPHA AL-CAN. Why, he is one of the worst fighters ive ever seen. Problem Cro Cop has is he is one dimensional as well, he has no plan B. When he loses the striking game its not like he can go to wrestling and BJJ, thats why he lost to Fedor, Nog, Kongo and JDS. Against Gonzaga he was just outclassed.
I agree about Dos Santos, his punches are still sloppy but ive said before that training with A Silva, Lil Nog and Shogun will help his stand up game. His boxing will improve and his Muay Thai looked pretty good against Cro Cop. Training with the Nog bros will also help his ground game. He still needs to improve some aspects of his game, for example I have no idea how his takedown defence and wrestling is, and against guys like Cain, Carwin and Lesner that will be important.
I suppose fighting Barry could happen but after seeing Barry on the ground I think Dos Santos should just take it to the ground.
First off, the reason he lost to Kongo was because he got pushed against the cage and knee in the balls countless times.
Fedor beat him because Fedor beats everyone.
Gonzaga caught him with the most telegraphed headkick ever. Mirko had an off night. But he wasn't outclassed.
CroCop gave Nog the beating of a lifetime. If that fight had been anywhere other than Pride, or if it had been anyone other than Nog(or Saka) the fight would have been stopped. CroCop literally kicked him to pieces!
CroCop has lost the stand-up aspect of a fight once without the use of illegal knee to the balls(Kongo, Overeem) or fluke knock-outs(Randleman, Gonzaga). Against Fedor. Fedor beats everyone.
Wasn't the only reason, ye it was brutal but he just couldn't do shit. Don't understand what being pushed against the cage had to do with it.
Before the HK, Gonzaga was easily winning, he was ontop of Cro Cop and he wasn't doing anything in return. Gonzaga wasn't really hurting him but he was winning easily. Then he beat Cro Cop with his own trick. Randleman knocked him out from the gaurd position, how can that be a fluke. How many flukes does Cro Cop suffer? How many off nights does he have?
For the Nog fight, ye he was killing Nog but thats all the more reason to critisize him. How can anyone not only not finish from there but then caught in a submission and lose a fight? I know its Nog but an ass kicking is an ass kicking.
Fedor is Fedor but I didn't expect to beat Cro Cop so easily on the feet. Even Rogers and AA were doing ok when they were standing up before getting caught. If Fedor beat him by sub or by GnP it wouldn't be a problem but he beat Cro Cop at his own game.
Randleman didnt KO him from guard position, it was a knockdown and he followed up and finished.
"thats all the more reason to critisize him. How can anyone not only not finish from there but then caught in a submission and lose a fight?"
firstly, if you would watch the fight, you would see that Crocop drops Nog with a headkick 1 second befroe the end of the round, secondly, you would see that the reason he got taken down and caught in a sub was because Nog had 2 full minutes to recover, and this was Mirko imo before his prime. His sub defence wasnt so good before he started training with Werdum.
i 100% guarentee that Mirko was doing far far better on the feet than Rogers and AA combined. He actually broke his nose and wobbled him, he landed the cleaner and harder shots in round 1, Fedor just kept coming and coming though. Fedor won that fight on the ground. this isnt the best picture of it either;
i think its safe to say that Mirko had an off night and underestimated Gonzaga and the influence of elbows, he was half KOd when Gonzaga threw that kick, and he hasnt been the same ever since.
i really dont understand the hate, this guy is one of the top heavyweights ever in a division he had no right dominating in. By some distance, the most feared striker ever in mma, seriously people were ducking him left right and centre.
Not according to this video, ye he caught with him a grazing shot, that stunned him but he wasn't out. He was in his gaurd for 3 seconds then pounded him.
"firstly, if you would watch the fight, you would see that Crocop drops Nog with a headkick 1 second befroe the end of the round, secondly, you would see that the reason he got taken down and caught in a sub was because Nog had 2 full minutes to recover, and this was Mirko imo before his prime. His sub defence wasnt so good before he started training with Werdum."
Ok but that happens to everyone. Unlucky? Yes but you should still be able to finish the fight after putting such a pounding. During GSP vs Hughes II a similar thing happened at the end of the first round, GSP caught Hughes, was about to finish and then the bell rang. Did that affect GSP? No, he finished in the second. Sub defence or no sub defence he should have been able to avoid that armbar. Especially after killing Nog.
We all know Fedor cuts like paper but he won that fight standing up. Even you said before that Fedor beat Cro Cop at his own specialty-And that I would assume would be striking. When AA fought him, for those 2 minutes he was doing excellent, amazing footwork, quick hands just top boxing. He was actually beating Fedor. Then he decided to for a flying knee but thats a different matter. Rogers was doing ok as well, he kept getting taken down but he did have that one flurry and had Fedor rocked pretty bad. Cut him open as well. Brocken bones happen all the time, didn't Fedor break his hand in the Sylvia fight? Doesn't mean Sylvia didanything of note.
"i really dont understand the hate, this guy is one of the top heavyweights ever in a division he had no right dominating in. By some distance, the most feared striker ever in mma, seriously people were ducking him left right and centre."
I don't hate him, how can I his career has been one highlight reel after the other. But I came into MMA late so I never saw the brilliant Cro Cop that everyone's talking about. Ok He Koed Aleks, Herring and Coleman but when people talk about a top, top fighter I don't see him there. His biggest wins are over Barnett (2x) and Wandy but beyond that he has never beaten a top fighter. He has beaten plenty of good and even very good fighters but I can't hold him in the same esteem as Nog and Fedor. Possibly even Randy, who almost has as many losses and wins but atleast he held a title. 5 times.
it isnt really his facts and figures that make him great, but there was something about Crocop back in the day, the aura, not of invincibility (that was Fedor's) but rather of: "if i go against this guy i am going to receive the worst beating i have ever gotten and will be able to do sweet fuck all about it"
this vid is pretty long, but if have the time i would reccommend it.(it starts off kinda slow)
something it reminded me of were his kicks, very unusual, normally you see the thai style kicks where they step into them and take a big old swing like a baseball bat or tee shot in golf, but Mirko never kicked like that, any kind of kick could come at any time, compare the speed of his kicks to what you see most of the time in mma, there is no way to see them coming, they were like lightning and despite the speed they are still the most devastating i have ever seen.
anyway if you arent on board the Lucko bandwagon now i give up.
Do u know if he is even contemplating dropping down to 205? he still has 2 fights in his UFC contract (i think) and if he loses to Rothwell which could happen then he should either retire or drop down to 205 maybe fight Lidell or Lil Nog or someone like that...
Crocop is like Tyson, If your a fan you believe he had a short prime were he was nearly invincible. Both were wreking machines, and for people who saw them at their best at the time do tend to hold them in high regard. Tyson isnt a top 10 heavy all time but peole think on form he could beat most of the top 10. Crocop had flashes of brilliance in his early career like Tyson but on paper because of performances were his head wasnt in it doesnt look good. And despite promising one last fight I think for those fighers once the killer isntinct is gone they are done.
Crocop would have done himself a favor to cut to 205, he is 220 without trying to activley stack on weight so is Rumble Johnson the Welterweight!! 205 would be the best career move but again I think he would show up disinterested looking and loose against any top guy in that weigth class, Lil Nog would wipe the floor with him on current form.
I was a Huge Crocop fan back in the day, him and Wand were my 2 favorite fighers but I think he is done now.
rudeboyben84 wrote:Crocop is like Tyson, If your a fan you believe he had a short prime were he was nearly invincible. Both were wreking machines, and for people who saw them at their best at the time do tend to hold them in high regard. Tyson isnt a top 10 heavy all time but peole think on form he could beat most of the top 10. Crocop had flashes of brilliance in his early career like Tyson but on paper because of performances were his head wasnt in it doesnt look good. And despite promising one last fight I think for those fighers once the killer isntinct is gone they are done.
ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Wasn't the only reason, ye it was brutal but he just couldn't do shit. Don't understand what being pushed against the cage had to do with it.
Before the HK, Gonzaga was easily winning, he was ontop of Cro Cop and he wasn't doing anything in return. Gonzaga wasn't really hurting him but he was winning easily. Then he beat Cro Cop with his own trick. Randleman knocked him out from the gaurd position, how can that be a fluke. How many flukes does Cro Cop suffer? How many off nights does he have?
For the Nog fight, ye he was killing Nog but thats all the more reason to critisize him. How can anyone not only not finish from there but then caught in a submission and lose a fight? I know its Nog but an ass kicking is an ass kicking.
Fedor is Fedor but I didn't expect to beat Cro Cop so easily on the feet. Even Rogers and AA were doing ok when they were standing up before getting caught. If Fedor beat him by sub or by GnP it wouldn't be a problem but he beat Cro Cop at his own game.
It was the only reason. You get kneed in the balls 3 times by a guy who's 6'4 and 245 it's gonna fuck you up. And being pushed against the cage is something Mirko had never experienced before. With the ropes in a ring there's more given and you can slid and bounce off them giving you momentum. Not so with the cage. If you get pinned by some1 who's bigger and stronger than you and you've not experienced it before, you may get acquintated because you're staying there.
Randleman beat CroCop with a fully flush punch when he faked the shot and changed levels. Then he pounded him out. Randleman learned to ground and pound from one of the greatest GnP fighter ever! two fluke KO/knockdowns in a long career is hardly a lot. GSP has had a fraction of the fights Mirko has had(including K1 and the like) and he's got a knockout loss that many say is a fluke.
First off Nog has never been finished by anything other than a staph infection! People have given him all manner of beatings and not finished him. As Chesty said, headkick followed by the end of the round. Another 30 seconds and that fight was over. Plus, Pride had 10minute first rounds. CroCop was extremely tired after that round. You go and kick a kickbag that many times in 10 minutes and you'll barely be able to walk let alone fight!
Fedor beat him in the stand-up but not easily. And as Chesty said, CroCop did far more than AA or Rogers.
AA actually did nothing in their fight, couple of jabs and a push kick. He was "winning" purely because Fedor hadn't done anything. and all Rogers did was re-open an existing cut. He never had Fedor rocked or dazed. Even when Fedor was on his back he came closer to catching the armbar than Rogers did of winning the fight.
For me, CroCop is the number 3 HW of all time right now. Obviously he's going to drop down that list but for now, i've got him at 3 after Fedor and Nog. Nobody has come as close to beating Fedor and nobody gave Nog a beating like CroCop. Had they fought against after Mirko started working with Werdum i think it would have gone differently. I wanted to see him fight Fedor after the OpenWeight GP. I would have backed him at that point to be honest. The way he beat Wandi and then Barnett was just incredible.
Mirko is the greatest striker MMA has ever had and had the greatest takedown defence and sprawl ever. If he had been a fighter and nothing else i have no doubts we'd be having a Fedor or Mirko conversation, but Mirko has had so much more in his life than fighting with politics, police working, seminars and conferences. Let's not forget, this guy made it to the K1 finals without training with anyone else. Just him, his trainer and a kick bag. No sparring, no weights, nothing. That's talent!
"Randleman beat CroCop with a fully flush punch when he faked the shot and changed levels. Then he pounded him out. Randleman learned to ground and pound from one of the greatest GnP fighter ever! two fluke KO/knockdowns in a long career is hardly a lot. GSP has had a fraction of the fights Mirko has had(including K1 and the like) and he's got a knockout loss that many say is a fluke."
But was that a fluke? Serra, Randleman and Gonzaga both intended to hurt there opponents when they threw there shots and thats what they did. Yes they got lucky but and 9 times out of 10 Cro Cop and GSP would be victorious but I don't think you can call it a fluke.
"First off Nog has never been finished by anything other than a staph infection! People have given him all manner of beatings and not finished him. As Chesty said, headkick followed by the end of the round. Another 30 seconds and that fight was over. Plus, Pride had 10minute first rounds. CroCop was extremely tired after that round. You go and kick a kickbag that many times in 10 minutes and you'll barely be able to walk let alone fight!"
So imagine getting your ass kicked for 10 minutes. Not stopping Nog is fine, no on does and even Fedor didn't (TWICE) but he kept his compusure and finished the fight and won the UD.
AA was fighting a very good fight up and till that garbage he pulled off. Maybe Fedor was in a feeling out process but AA showed the kind of striker you have to be to get the better of Fedor on the feet. Technichally Fujita did the best on the feet against Fedor because he came incredibly close to finishing.
Either way that video is touching, in his prime he was a very good fighter but unfortuanatley he was never able to get to the top, top level. I do hope to see Cro Cop fight again-AT 205!!! His natural weight. He can cause people problems there, Id like to see him fight Liddell, Griffin or Rampage when he comes back. Overall I wouldn't pick him to beat Machida but IMO he has the smallest chance to beat Brock Lesner who is just to big and athletic.
ChelseaQuinsfan were do you rate crocop in terms of all time heavys? Most have him at 3rd. I do as well but I can see Anfields logic in thinking he will slip down the rankings soon.
I watched a close up slow motion replay of the Arlovski vs Fedor fight and very few of his shots landed, 1st time I watched it I felt he was doing great on the feet but he hardly connected at all! I think Fedor would have planted him with something else had he not tried a flying knee.
I think Crocop could have Beat Fedor in a rematch, he always felt he could. On the Form he won the Openweight GP I think he would have finished Nog as well. I think Crocop could have been the 2nd best ever, again its the Tyson comparison, some believe on his night he could have beat anyone others think he is a bit overrated due to his losses.
I think his legacy is going down the drain by keeping fighting though. Id rather he packed it in. Rothwell fight is a loose loose for him. If he looses he is donw, if he wins and doesnt look unstoppable people wont be impressed with a win against a fighter ranked below him and he will still need to rprove himself.
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It says a lot about the mindset of a guy who shared the ring with Hoost etc.. in Pride and was scared to exchange with JDS. His head hasnt been in it since Gonzaga.
