UFC 108... Injury strikes again!!

This time its Gonzaga who is out!! With a Staph infection. Another blow to the Heavyweight devision! Lesnar, Nog, Carwin, Gonzaga all out! Gonzaga vs JDS was going to be a good one, I wonder if we will see Cain vs JDS now? Or will JDS wait about untill Carwin is ready to go? shit news anyway I was raelly looking forward to seeing Gonzaga fight again shame to hear.

Ah for fuck sake

what is going on-was looking forward to this fight aswel

Crikey blimey! They may as well just suspend the heavyweight division for 6 months !

Fuck, I was really looking forward to seeing if Dos Santos can cut it or if Gonzaga would choke again. Shit. Oh well, hopefully JDS against Velasquez now.

Cain vs JDS makes a lot of sense and it would finally silence the JDS brigade. Cain to smash him.

Nope Cain is fighting Nog at UFC 110 not. I say Carwin to fight JDS, Carwin for me is just Brett Rogers, a big guy with 1 big win whos finished everyone else in record time. To be a steady top 10 heavy he needs to get a few other big wins and JDS fight would make sence. I suppose he can sit about and wait for Brock but If he wants to stay Busy JDS vs Carwin in a fight that makes sence.

Anyone else Free to figth him? how long is Duffee out for? Maby Pat Parry would step up and fight him?

"Nope Cain is fighting Nog at UFC 110"

Damm I was looking forward to seeing Dos Santos Knock Velasquez out. If Kongo tagged him that many times, just imagine what the faster Dos Santos would do.

Duffee is out for a while I think, JDS is on another level compared to Barry at the momment. He isn't about to go from Cro Cop to Barry. Carwin makes sense, that would be a good fight. Here we can see Dos Santos put the overated Carwin to bed.

I don't know if Cain is ready for Nog just right now. Its a really hard fight to pick, im not sure who to go for. On one hand Velasquez is the younger, stronger more athletic destruvtive wrestler while Nog, is the experienced legend who has the best BJJ in the HW division. This fight will tell us a lot about both fighters, I have a little feeling that Nog is going to edge this one.

ChelseaQuinsfan you really seem to rate JDS over Carwin and Cain? Carwin is undefeated and apart from 1 shot from Gonzaga he looked invincible. He has steamrolled most fighters in under a minute!!! MMA is unpredictable as we all know, JDS has been tapped by an unknown so for Carwin to have a record like his he has gotta be the real deal.

Im sold on Carwin, I dont see anyone really showing him up but both Cain and JDS have looked bad at times. I dont think Barry vs JDS is a rediculous fight, Barry is a step up from Crocop id say.

I also dont think JDS has a better standup game than Kongo, I dont think he would land on Cain more than Kongo did, he couldnt land on Crocop that much and Crocop put on one of his all time worst preformances, Ive never seen him scared to get punched.

Not to Knock JDS I ratehim over Carwin and Cain on the rankings because he has bigger wins but im not sold on Cain or JDS yet. A bad loss could send either out of the top 10, Im sure hte same applies to Carwin, they arent regulars in the top 10 they have just recently shot to fame recently, I think all 3 have a lot to prove but Carwin is the one I feel is best he has managed to look like a wrecking ball in every fight so far.

cain vs JDS is the best match to make here winner gets winner of brock/carwin

I take it Carwin is happy to sit on the side lines scratching his balls waiting on Brock? Its already been said that Cain vs Nog is the number 1 contender fight which is fair enough I guess. JDS will just have to wait his turn. I guess Training under Nog he wants to let him have 1st crack at the title.

Ye ok he got tapped by an unkown, but he beat him as well. It was just an off night. People are not giving him enough credit for the Cro Cop fight. Fine Cro Cop was awful but Dos Santos did his part in making him look so bad. Dos Santos dominated the fight, messing him up pretty bad. Don't forget, you have to look at it from Dos Santos's perspective as well. He was fighting a legend, one of the all time greats, nerves are a factor. When he got more confident he just blew him away.

Out of Cain, JDS and Carwin I rate Carwin the least. Im not sold on him, he has only beaten one big name and a guy who is notorious for chocking in big matches as well. He has looked invincible but thats because he has fought mighty warriors like Neil Wain, Christian Wellisch and Shermen Prendegast. His size is overated, he isn't that big I think Kongo is bigger. He is a good fighter but there are so many questions he has to answer.

JDS throws faster punches than Kongo does, he has much quicker hand speed. So if he connected like Kongo did, he would follow up. I don't know what you mean when you said JDS and Cain have looked bad. Dos Santos KTFO of Werdum and blew Struve away (who is now looking like a promosing fighter) and while he struggled in the early parts against Cro Cop, he was still winning comfortably. Velasquez has blown all his opponents away, ye he was caught by a powerful striker in Kongo but so was Carwin against Gonzaga who isn't as good a striker as Kongo.

If were saying Dos Santos's best win was against Werdum, and Carwins's was against Gonzaga, then you can see who has faced tougher opponents. Werdum beat Gonzaga twice. Dos Santos's next big wins are Struve and Cro Cop. Who has Carwin faced like that?

Barry lost to Hauge a fight ago, he has no ground game. Black house trained Dos Santos could probably sub him in a minute.

I also don't want to leave out Duffee, he has looked like a monster so far. Im not sure who id put him with, possibly Tusherer then Arvloski if he comes. If not then another top figther, Gonzaga.

Personally I don't rate JDS myself Against Cro Cop his striking looked terrible very clumsy i can see a Kongo, Barry or even a Hardonk giving him kittens.

He beat Cro Cop who is totally shot he did beat Werdum but Werdum looked out of shape (fat) and slow I put it down to Werdum coming in with the terrible idea of "bulking up" of a future fight with Lesnar and looking past JDS.

IMO Cain, Carwin & Lesnar would smash him with ease.

On to the card it seems jinxed beyond belief it really is lacking a Main Event like 106 and is meant to be the end of year showcase (although it is January)

I take your point about Carwin only beating Gonzaga who you rightly pointed out has a history of shoking in the big fights, fair enough.

But Dos Santos vs Crocop I dont see like you did, Watch it again if you get the chance. Mirko constantly ducks his head looking at the floor like an amature scared of being him. Ive even got told off for doing it when I started sparring. He also pushes JDS in the chest to create space but makes no attempt to attack. Nerves or not this was the worse Crocop that has ever showed up IMO. I cant find another fight were he cowers away from being hit. The Kongo performance was even better. JDS did look good against Struve but possible a little premature stoppage because Struve was a young guy looking a little out of his depth. George rightly pointed out perhaps Werdum was a little out of sorts coming in in his worst career shape. Not to take away form JDS but his 2 big wins arent what they seem. I still RANK him higher but I cant see him beating Carwin.

Carwin bums or not steamrolled them in a way no one else could, he has much much more power in his hands than any other heavyweight in the UFC, I think he would be too much for JDS and Cain, I see him handing them both 1 sided beatdowns. Again who knows beause none of them have enough big fight expecience to be sure of any of this. But JDS could have looked a lot better against Crocop who has asking to be uppercutted all night long. I think Carwin would have stopped Crocop much much earlier.

It adds a bit of interst that the 3 main up and commers (starange term for a man Carwin age!) really devide opionon on these boards, I like JDS because he trains with a lot of fighers I like (Nog Bros and Shogun) but he has looked bad loosing and I think he looked bad against Crocop because as I said Crocop was looking at the ground like a scared amature asking to be uppercutted. Cain has looked bad because of his Chin and seeming lack of punch power.

I think Duffee will be in the mix as well after his next fight. I hope he isnt out for too long because that kid looked like a bulldozer! what weight was he? I heard them announce one thing but it said anotehr weight on screen.

I'm loosing faith big time with the UFC the cards aren't cutting it at the moment and there big names are dropping like flys, lets look at it:
INJURED:

Lesnar
Carwin
Nog
Gonzaga
A. Silva
GSP

these are some of the UFC's biggest draws its shocking bad luck!

But on the other hand they should be bringing in guys to fight like Cain, JDS, Belfort, Ect. I personally am getting a little annoyed at the lack of good match ups and having to wait for fights like the Machida v Shogun rematch and Silva v Belfort its shit! Luckily the less well known guys have been stepping up and putting good matches on!

My opinion on what everyone else is going on about, JDS is over rated and prob would have lost to a Gonzaga with a lot to prove. Cain is the real deal and I think will go all the way eventually. Carwin will get destroyed by Lesnar so get him fighting some other guys while he waits, if he's half the fighter everyone thinks he is he'll have no problems going through people like Cain, Nog, Mir and so on, couldn't see it myself though.

Come on UFC sort it out!!! You could always through stupid money at Fedor and spice things up abit!!!

Mirko constantly ducks his head looking at the floor like an amature scared of being him. Ive even got told off for doing it when I started sparring.

Haha, I did the same as well, I still do from time to time but I get told off as well.

Anyway, listen im not saying Cro Cop was good or even average. He was terrible but Dos Santos still deserves his credit. He could have done better but at the same time Cro Cop was SCARED of getting hit which meant he spent the whole fight basically running away. When Santos caught him, it was a matter of time. Ye Werdum came in terrible but that doesn't take away from the fact that Dos Santos has some incredible power. look Werdum in not an easy guy to put away, especially with one punch like that. Correct me if im wrong but Dos Santos was the first man to put him away and Werdum has fought Aleks, Overoid, Antonia Silva, Vera, Gonzaga twice, Arvloski and Kharitonov. Werdum looked awful against AA as well but he wasn't put away.

The Struve fight wasn't premature, Struve was out. Ye Struve is a young fighter but so is Dos Santos.

"can see a Kongo, Barry or even a Hardonk giving him kittens."

I seriously doubt that, especially the last two. Barry is overated and Hardonk isn't any good in general.

Fine his boxing is a little sloppy, people forget he is only 25 years old. Training with lil Nog, A Silva and Shogun will help it improve. Plus his Muay Thai looked good as well.

Sorry to make this comparison but when Alexander started off he lost his first fight then mauled his next 8 opponents including Sakara and Jardine. Now he is fighting Kimbo Slice. We still haven't seen Carwin's gas tank, is it any good? We haven't seen his ground game, ok he escaped from Gonzaga but I wonder what a top BJJ man would do to him.


"Cain has looked bad because of his Chin and seeming lack of punch power."

Ive said this a few times, Cain does not have a weak chin. Kongo is one of the hardest hitters in MMA, any fighter who gets hit by one of those lunch boxes is going to stumble. Does Carwin have a weak chin because he stubled against Gonzaga? Does Hendo have a weak chin because he stumbled against Rampage? His chin is fine from what I can tell, his stance on the other hand is something else. Thats a problem with AKA training. Just because its a kickboxing camp doesn't mean there good at training standup. Ive seen this with all there fighters, there stance is poor. you saw it with Kos against Thiago, Cain against Kongo, Fitch against GSP and Swick against Hardy. There stance is poor and it makes them easy to hit. That could be a problem in the future.

As for a lack of punch power, he has finished all his opponents bar Kongo who is hard to stop. Ok he doesn't have one punch KO power but niether does Nog and he is fine. Infact most HWs don't, besides Dos Santos, Carwin, Kongo, (possibly) Lesner and (possibly) Gonzaga who has one punch KO power in the UFC HW division?


"I think Duffee will be in the mix as well after his next fight. I hope he isnt out for too long because that kid looked like a bulldozer! what weight was he? I heard them announce one thing but it said anotehr weight on screen"

Ye this kid looks like a tank, quite young and he has already beaten Asurio Silva. He has a similar record to Carwin where he has beaten everyone fairly quickly. He was 251 at UFC 102 if memory serves me correctly.

Cool cant wait to see Duffee in the Mix.

Fair enough about JDS, Werdum win is a Werdum win all the same, Fat or Skinny Werdum has whooped a lot of great fighers so I cant argue with thinking JDS is great based on that. It was a great performance.

I do think Cain is chinny based on that Kongo fight, I think his legs turned to Jelly a couple of times, and I dont believe Kongo is the Striker UFC makes him out to be. He does really hit that hard. He is comparible to Gilbert Yvel. Its just that there arent a lot of great strikers at Hw in the UFC currently but you could bet Brock or Shane hits harder than him. There are a few fighers who he couldnt put away, I dont exactly think he is Overeem on the feet. Infact I think put him in with Brett Rogers in a striking fight and he doent make it past round 1. Cains chin did let him down, Carwins did too but Cain was rocked a good few times in that fight, a better fighter may have finished. I think Gonzaga is a much much better figther than Kongo as well.

Ye ok Kongo's standup game isn't all that impressive, he couldn't put Cro Cop away period. But he still hits hard, more so than Nog who Cain is fighting next. Against Carwin and Lesner it will be a problem, but its not the chin its the stance. I think at HW, a chins strength can't be weak or strong, it doesn't matter because the guys hit so hard. Best way to do it is to protect your face. Velazquez does not protect his face. There are no Hendersons or Cote's in the HW division. You do have some bad ones like Arvloski and Gonzaga but not good ones.

I agree, Gonzaga is a much better fighter than Kongo. Having said that I think cain would beat Gonzaga as well.

Yeah Cain would beat Gonzaga unless it was on an undercard were no one was watching! Gonzaga chokes in main events but when he is good he is great! I raelly see flashes of brilliance in Gonzaga, I think he should have put Werdum away in the 2nd fight... I dont know what it is about him but he is reall hot and cold. Cain vs Nog is one of the most interesting figts they could have made. Nog is easy to look good against up untill you get tapped but Cain is a bull of a man he will be hard to tap for Nog... I see this fight will split opinions too!!! Who you got?

I don't really dislike cain, but I think all the hyperbole every time he is on a show is setting him up to fail. I know the ufc have to hype up their fighters but calling this guy the dog's bollocks every time he breathes probably isn't going to help him in the long run.

JDS deserves very little acclaim for beating a very poor crocop in a fight where Mirko won the first round, and the second was very close, the 3rd was all JDS until he hit him in the eye, blinding him and he submitted.

I like Gonzaga as well, he is a monster on the feet and has some incredible BJJ. But the fact is he should have won the HW title at least once by now but keeps on chocking and I just can't pick him in big fights anymore.

I have no idea who to pick for Cain vs Nog. Its one of those fights where I just don't know what will happen. Cain isn't going to KO Nog and same vice verca. I can see Cain avoiding Nogs sub attempts but he could careless and that would be the fight. I really think this fight is destined to be a decision.

"JDS deserves very little acclaim for beating a very poor crocop in a fight where Mirko won the first round, and the second was very close, the 3rd was all JDS until he hit him in the eye, blinding him and he submitted"

I know your a cro cop fan but how can you say Cro Cop won the first round when he did nothing but duck his head and run away. Second round Dos Santos won comfortably and the third was a blowout, the knee to the eye was the start of the end. Cro Cop could have continued but he knew he was going to get hurt.

Problem here is people are overreacting Cro Cop in general when the fact of the matter is he has been average ever since the Wandy fight. He was poor against Gonzaga, awful against Kongo beat a couple of cans and then beat by a stronger, faster, younger opponent.

CroCop won the first round and i'd have given him the second as well. He punched JDS in the face time after time after time with that straight left, landed a couple of decent kicks and took no damage whatsoever. He was shrugging off JDS anytime he tried to clinch and was controlling the fight. His heart wasn't in it and by round 3 he was just not interested.

CroCop destroyed Barnett after Wandi so he hasn't been poor since the Wandi fight.

JDS is hugely over-rated based on beating a Fabricio Werdum who clearly didn't want to be their anymore. Personally his only win that i'm impressed with was Struve who's another talented up and comer.




Kongo is a better striker than either Carwin or Lesnar and whilst he doesn't hit that hard he's got quicker and far more accurate hands. Both lesnar and carwin telegraph every punch they throw. Cain will those coming a lot easier than Kongo's punches and whilst his legs may have buckled, he was never dropped in the fight and easily took Kongo down immediately after.

"CroCop won the first round and i'd have given him the second as well. He punched JDS in the face time after time after time with that straight left, landed a couple of decent kicks and took no damage whatsoever. He was shrugging off JDS anytime he tried to clinch and was controlling the fight. His heart wasn't in it and by round 3 he was just not interested."


He lost both and by some way as well, Cro Cop looked a lot worse than Dos Santos. And when Dos Santos got his nerves out of his way and realised Cro Cop wasn't going to hurt him he dismantled him and Cro Cop quit. Pushing some ones chest does not mean your controlling the fight.

"CroCop destroyed Barnett after Wandi so he hasn't been poor since the Wandi fight.

JDS is hugely over-rated based on beating a Fabricio Werdum who clearly didn't want to be their anymore. Personally his only win that i'm impressed with was Struve who's another talented up and comer."


Fair enough, I forgot about that but since then...

Listen Werdum has come in awful before, he was awful against AA and Cro Cop was awful against Kongo. AA and Kongo didn't finsih, Dos Santos did. His striking is still sloppy but he has a lot of power.


"Kongo is a better striker than either Carwin or Lesnar and whilst he doesn't hit that hard he's got quicker and far more accurate hands. Both lesnar and carwin telegraph every punch they throw. Cain will those coming a lot easier than Kongo's punches and whilst his legs may have buckled, he was never dropped in the fight and easily took Kongo down immediately after"

Tend to agree with this, Lesner and Carwin through very hand punches but I could see there punches against Herring and Gonzaga come from a mile away! Kongo is still a pretty good striker and better than both. However Dos Santos has faster hand speed than Kongo for one and a much better ground game. Velasquez never looked in serious trouble against Kongo but if Dos Santos catches him once he will finish. If Lesner or Carwin catch him period he could be gone. I like Velasquez and I think he can be something special but his AKA induced stance is worrying.

Dos Santos looked alot bigger than Crocop, ill give you that, but in the first round, although JDS was backing crocop up , Crocop landed more shots and they landed cleaner. the second was more of the same.

There is no way Cro Cop won the second round, I could see a case for the first but no way the second.

It seems if you beat better fighters people call you overated, Dos Santos should stick to fighting cans and Koing them quickly so people stop calling him overated. That seems to work for Carwin and it worked for Calzaghe. Cro Cop is meant to fight Rothwell next, il see from that performance if Dos Santos made him look bad or if he really is just awful nowadays.