Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

ChelseaQuinsfan do you feel Mach is close to HOF status? He has good wins on his CV, a long title run and a long unbeaten streak... I feel another big name win or two or a good undefeated run of a few fights would earn him his place. He beat Hellboy and Aoki twice who are great fighters. Pulver was also highly regarded when he beat him as was Trigg who was undefeated and wouldnt loose again till Hughes.

Not to write off losses with excuses but after the Silva loss Mach wasnt at his best. He had trouble with his weight health and mental game after a car accident... I think Credit were Credit is due. IM not saying he is GSP or Matt Hughes both of them are HOF'ers so no shame in being worse but Mach surely has to be close to being in the HOF? At 34 perhaps he still has time to get in?

(By the way I expect a full article from you when GSP is inducted! I think from now on anyone inducted should have an article writeten about them by whoever their biggest fan is... or if its a JApanese fighter Chesty will probabally know most! )

Mach has been a top level fighter for 12 years across multiple weight classes. He was regarded as a great lightweight, moved up to welterweight and was the top ranked fighter there, and p4p number one. He took a misguided journey up to middleweight, but then dropped to lightweight and was an elite fighter there from 2005-2007. Then he moves up to welterweight again and is still solid.

And he is probably the first completely well rounded fighter. More so than Frank Shamrock, Bas Rutten, Marco Ruas. Those guys had striking and submissions, but Sakurai had striking, submissions and a competent takedown game as well. Bas has said he used to look up to Mach.

I'm not entirely sold personally on the concept of an MMA hall of fame at this point, and I think really, only fighters like Fedor, Nogueira, GSP and Anderson will stack up against fighters of the future. But if you're questioning whether Mach stacks up against other fighters on the armbar hall of fame list, I think he's certainly of the quality of fighters like Bas, the Shamrocks, Sakuraba, Funaki etc.

Mach should be in for his saucy internet exploits alone, he paved the way for the future generations (War Machine).

Ye I definitley think he has time to still get in but I don't think he deserves to go over Tito. Reason being, Tito beat the GOAT at his weight class, contreverially or not, at his best or not, Tito still beat Wandy. He also beat Belfort a former UFC champion and Forrest a future LHW champion. 6 Title defences, yes some were against average and even awful opponents but guys like Tanner, Janitor and Shamrock then are good wins. He Drew with Rashad Evans in a fight everyone thought he won. If he beats Liddell I think he should definitley go in, but I don't think he will.

Mach has some poor losses on his record, like getting submitted by David Baron. Is that HOF material?
Anyway Mach is now fighting at WW right? I know he got HK by Zamouriskas who has come out of nowhere and become a star. Really I mean he lost to Che Mills twice and strugled to beat Ross Pearson (I watched that fight recently) and suddenly he KOs Mach, High and some other guy.

Is Mach fighting anytime soon? I wonder if he will seek a rematch against mini-Cro Cop.

Oh and I will be more than happy to write an article about GSP when he is inducted



Mach should be in for his saucy internet exploits alone, he paved the way for the future generations (War Machine).

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ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:GSP was P4P once, arguably now. There is no written, uiversal rule who the best P4P fighter is.

Mach was never P4P the best, when Saku lost to Wand, Wandy became the best P4P fighter.

GSP and Hughes are the greatest WWs of all time.


He was also one of the first mma fighters proficient in every area, someething Hughes nad Tito cannot say even to this day!

Hughes didn't need to be when destroyed Mach. Gracie was never proficent in every area yet he was one of the greatest. Hell, Cro Cop and Nog also can't claim to be proficient in every area to this day! However Hughes, Cro Cop and Nog all had one skill and they were very, very, very good at it.

GSP has never been higher than number 2 p4p. His period of dominating dry-humping has coincided with an extended period of Fedor at number 1. Even the UFC has never claimed GSP to be P4P number 1. They've just stupidly chosen to ignore Fedor.

I'm not sure whether Mach is a Hall Of Famer but i wouldn't protest him being put in.

Dry Humping- Errrr

Pounded Fitch, Pounded BJ, Destroyed Serra, Finished Hughes in one round, beat Kos in an exciting fight. Only fight he dryhumped was Alves and that was only the last 2 rounds were he tore his groin, he was working consistantly in the first 2 rounds.

GSP may not be the best P4P fighter, or he might be. I don't wan't to go into the millionth P4P discussion right now. Certainly he has fought the hardest competition but this dryhumping thing is ridiculous. You say the same thing about Shields and Fitch, Shields UD win over Mayhem was the first time it went to a UD in 3 years! How come you never call Lindland a dryhumper, he is the godfather of dryhumping.

He dryhumped BJ and couldn't finish him. If Bj's brother hadn't pulled him out it would have all 5. Same with fitch. Dryhumping galore. To dominate a fight to that extent and not finish is very unusual.

He finished Hughes but did destroy him the way Alves did. And battering Serra doesn't prove much.

Gsp will only become p4p number 1 when Fedor retires and even then Machida could be ranked above him.

Your kidding right, if BJ's brother didn't pull him out BJ would not be fighting Sanchez this weekend. Dryhumped Fitch, Ha he sent his mouth piece flying. He should have finished that fight but he didn't dryhump. He easily beat Hughes.

Fedor is the greatest of all time, IMO not the best right now. Machida can't beat Shogun

Anyway the P4P ratings are a lot tougher now than when Mach was argued to be the best P4P fighter. The top 10 P4P fighters today are all probably better than Mach, certainly the top 6. GSP, Fedor, Machida, Silva, BJ and Hendo.

Rickson Gracie has to go in!

3 or 4 years ago i would have had Ricco Rodriguez as a shoo in for HOF list.

He is 38-11, 22 submisions, only finished twice, 9 decsion loses, was robbed at pride against Nog because he was UFC fighter.

Has wins over Couture,Arlovski, Travis Fulton and many others

It is a shame his career tailed off abit and was caught doing Coke and Marijuana. Lost too some average fighters


Atleast deserves a mention i think

Ricco had so much talent. When he beatdown Couture I thought he would go on to have a hall of fame career but his ego took over and he went off the rails. As a grappler I'd rank him up with werdum. Had good stand up too although he wasn't a fan of getting punched in the face.

Wasted talent, agree he looked like a hall of famer at one point but I think he goes down as a should-have-been.

I put him in the same boat as Rizzo, Was great at one time but his career didnt go so great, Rizzo beat...

Severn
Barnett
Coleman
Tank
Arlovski
Ricco
Monson

But looking at his overall career, 17-9-0 it doesnt scream HOF'er.

Maby we will do a Just missed out list!

A HOF career is a career that has been consistantly good. Ricco started off really well but he fucked up, same with Rizzo.

They can join Frye on the Just Missed out list!

I think Miguel Torres is a guture HOF'er if he wins back his title or wins one of the Faber/Aldo superfights... 37-2-0 is a hell of a record for a guy under 30.

I think Tito will have ruled out any chance of him being in the HOF if he looses to Chuck.

Is there anyone else that we have Overlooked or is near being in the HOF?

GSP obviously but as I said I want to wait till he is a little older... Maby wait till he is 30!! But apart from GSP im trying to think of anyone else...

I think the next closest are Mach, who I wouldn't have yet and Jeremy Horn because he has some good wins and just because he has so many fights. Problem is he might not be on the level of the other fighters in the HOF so I don't know.

How much longer before Andy Wang can get in?

rudeboyben84 wrote:I put him in the same boat as Rizzo, Was great at one time but his career didnt go so great, Rizzo beat...

Severn
Barnett
Coleman
Tank
Arlovski
Ricco
Monson

But looking at his overall career, 17-9-0 it doesnt scream HOF'er.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:A HOF career is a career that has been consistantly good. Ricco started off really well but he fucked up, same with Rizzo

Why do the bolded points not apply to Randy Couture when it comes to HOF status? He is only 18-10 overall, 6-5 over the past 5-6 years and has never had a winning streak longer than 4 matches. If he hadn't been handed title shots, and you have said yourself Ben that MMA titles don't carry that much weight, and treated like a god by the UFC, would he have the same status in the MMA world as he does now?

I do like Randy but have never understood why he is treated as one of the best ever when his record suggests otherwise.

Randy is kind of the exception to the rule. Really the reason he has fought his old career when he had no right to, he debuted as a 34 year old and wouldn't reach his peak for another 4 to 6 years, which is incredible. Randy is a HOFer because he of his level as a competitor, there are other fighters in that are in for other reasons than record. Dan Severn is in based on the fact of sheer number of fights as well as being a quality fighter. Mark Coleman has a worse record than Randy but he still easily deserves to go in. Even Mirko Cro Cop had a short prime and his record is a little padded with wins over cans, average fighters and undersized ones but he still deserves to go in.

Look at Randy's wins

Chuck Liddell
Tito Ortiz
Pedro Rizzo (twice)
Vitor Belfort (twice)
Maurice Smith (when he was good)
Kevin Randleman
Jeremy Horn
Tim Sylvia (best ever)
Gabriel Gonzaga
Brandon Vera
Mark Coleman

Yes I know you could make a flaw with everyone of those fighters (I'll save you the trouble Anfield and Chesty) but for a man who was considered too old to fight, thats a pretty impressive record.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

How much longer before Andy Wang can get in?

You mean he's not in already????????

I tried to tell Ben but he never gave Wang the respect he deserves- Pride fanboy

Could Lil Evil get in? I know his record is pretty unimpressive, especially towards the end but I think he could get in. When you consider he was the first real "underdog" in MMA. He fought at 155 at first but really, he isn't even a big FW and could probably make BW but he still used to KO WWs.

His has good wins over Phil Johns, Uno, Hallman, Swanson, Daddy, Emerson and ofcoarse BJ Penn. What makes him special is that he is the only man smaller than BJ Penn to defeat him, and just look at every other guy that has beaten BJ. All world-class fighters. Its not like he got lucky and caught BJ with a flash shot, he was the better fighter for 5 rounds. Cro Cop and Randy get a lot of credit for fighting in a weight class above them and rightfully so, Pulver deserves that credit as well.

I could understand if he doesn't get in because he has losses to average fighters and a poor record but he has a win over a fighter thats better than a lot of the HOF fighters.

Just thought Id throw him in there.

i wouldnt mind seeing Pulver put in either but its really up to Ben and what he thinks and i think he is looking for very high stnadards for the hall of fame which he is right

I've only read page 12 of this discussion but is Anderson not in the frame? maybe Mir if he wins a title again? BJ? Matt hughes? Sorry if they have all been mentioned...

Yeah mate Standards are really high, last time we went down the route of dropping him people were saying, If you have Horn why not Rampage etc..

I like Pulver but he needs to start putting togeather a few wins... 3 wins in his last 10 fights makes him look terrible. I think Jens has lost his chance along with Frye and Tito. The tail end of their career has looked so poor that they would look out of palce in a Hall of Fame.

Currently im considering Kiyoshi Tamura. who is rumoured to fight Whitemare at Dream 13, he wins that he is a HOF'er... check out his record for those who dont know him.

http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Kiyoshi-Tamura-1451

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Pins Hughes and BJ are in, Ill add Anderson if Ive overlooked him!!

I Need to update the records, Might add a picture becide the name and links to their full fight records this week.