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    Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

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    rudeboyben84
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    Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:59 pm

    . Fedor Emelianenko: 32/1*/0 (16 Sub, 9 KO)


    . Kazushi Sakuraba: 26/12/1 (18 Sub, 3 KO)


    . Royce Gracie: 14/3/3 (12 Sub, 0 KO)


    . Randy Couture: 18/10/0 (2 Sub, 7 KO)


    . Matt Hughes: 44/7/0 (18 Sub, 15 KO)


    . Wanderlei Silva: 33/10/1 (4 Sub, 22 KO)


    . Frank Shamrock: 23/10/2 (13 Sub, 3 KO)


    . Dan Henderson: 25/8/0 (1 Sub, 11 KO)


    . B.J. Penn: 15/6/1 (6 Sub, 5 KO)


    . Dan Severn: 93/16/7 (54 Sub, 14 KO)


    . Mirko Filipovic: 26/7/2 (3 Sub, 20 KO)


    . Chuck Liddell: 21/7/0 (1 sub, 14 KO)


    . Bas Rutten: 28/4/1 (13 Sub, 12 KO)


    . Anderson Silva: 25/4/0 (4 Sub, 15 KO)


    . Masakatsu Funaki: 38/12/1 (33 Sub, 4 KO)


    . Mark Coleman: 16/9/0 (8 Sub, 4 KO)


    . Takanori Gomi: 30/5/0 (6 Sub, 11 KO)


    . Ken Shamrock: 27/13/2 (23 Sub, 2 KO)


    . Antônio Rodrigo Nogueira: 32/5/1 (19 Sub, 3 KO)


    . Josh Barnett: 24/5/0 (15 Sub, 5 KO)




    -------------------------------------------------------

    Rules of the Hall of Fame,

    Fighters can be added based on the following things,

    .Titles (Major Title are considered would be UFC, Strikeforce, Pride, Shoto, Pancrase)

    .Undefeated Streaks

    .Wins over top class fighters

    .P4p - Going up and down weight classes is a bonus if your a smaller man who has beat guys in weight classes above him thats a plus point.

    .Contribution to MMA - Older fighers may not have the same "names" on their record but if they revolutionarised a style or helped MMA become the sport it is today they should be given credit.

    There are not exact figures to measure people but if you make a suggestion please make a case to back it up. Cheers!


    Last edited by rudeboyben84 on Wed Nov 16, 2011 12:57 pm; edited 32 times in total (Reason for editing : update)
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Aug 17, 2009 10:32 pm

    Tito Ortiz for sure, maybe Frye as well. BJ will go down as a HOFer think but I still feel like he has a bit to prove in the LW (and only the LW) division. If he beats a few more top contenders, he should be in. I know I might be biased but I think GSP will end up as a HOFer as well (UFC and our one Wink ) He has 8 KOs and 5 subs, I think he will add to that before he is finished. With 2 WW and 1 interim title reigns already and 3 defenses, he could be on his way.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:06 pm

    Yeah GSP's career would really have to take a turn fore the worse for him not to get into the HOF... I tend to put fighters who are retired or towards the end of their career in... GSP will go in but not this young. BJ the same maby will wait to see if he wins more...

    So Yes to Tito and Maby to Frye? Titos career is still going and with a few losses if it doesnt finish well I dont think he is HOF material... he came up short against Randy Couture, Frank Shamrock, Machida and Chuck Liddell. I think he also lost to Belfort although I cant get a hold of that full fight. I also think that he was lucky to beat Wandy... But a win is a win I suppose.

    Tito has beat who convincingly? He beat Forrest by SD, Belfort by SD, His fight with Wandy he was rocked but it was UD... Shamrock wasnt a big win in any way, Cote maby? Cut Cote is a Mw, Tanner Wasnt a top guy, Guy Mezger he beat but they are 1-1 with each other and Mezger finished Tito a lot quicker than Tito finished him. Matyushenko maby? Tito may have been a UFC champ but he hasnt done enough to make me feel he is a Hall of Famer, especially if his career goes down hill from here. I dont think his Early career is spectacular enough to out him in with the greats... Especially when you consider he was ducking Chuck when holding the Title....

    Im not Sold on Tito at all... Don Frye was a real inovater in MMA a real old school legend and a really likeable guy but at 20-7-1 He hasnt had a spectacular career, he lost to the likes of Minowa, James Thompson, Drew with Warpath!! Lost to Yoshihiro "Kiss" Nakao, Gary Goodridge, Coleman twice, Hidehiko Yoshida

    Fryes wins, Shamrock, Tank, Gilbert Yvel (which was a DQ win) Goodridge (By "Fatigue") Cyril Abidi... thats a stretch! His legendary fight with Takayama seems less impressive when you cinsider Takayama is 0-4 in MMA and got armbarred by Sapp!! Akibono had only 1 win in his whole K-1/MMA career.... Frye has faced some terrible opponents. Im a really big fan of his but If you break down his career he really doesnt stack up
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:27 pm

    Ye honestly I haven't seen That much of Frye in his earlier days so looking at his record it doesn't look impressive. As for Tito his record isn't glittered with impressive results but when you look at it, The Janitor is a good win, Belfort is a good win, Wandy is a good win, Cote is a decent win, Tanner (RIP) at the time was a good win, Mezger is a good win, Forrest is a good win and many people thought he beat Rashad, it was considered a draw. Its a pretty good list, even if there are some contreversal wins, however when you add the fact that he 6 time defending LHW champion and he was one of the pioners after the initial pioners of the sport. He was the first superstar, Heel, fan favoutite in the sport, he was the first big name. If Ken Shamrock is a HOFer then Tito is the best ever, obviosly not the case but you see my point. When Tito dismantled Shamrock (for arguments sake lets just consider the 1st time) Tito was the new and Shammy was the old. Tito anhilated Shamrock brutally, he beat him everywhere and that was the begining of the new MMA fighter. Tito is now of the old as well, look at the Machida fight for evidence but he was the first new fighter.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:54 pm

    Hmmm perhaps, If others would like to see Tito in, Id be happy he is close to it.. But I feel at his age he could still really screw his legacy up, Like I said I dont think he has done enough yet... A reasonabally good rest of his career and Id stick him in the HOf for sure, but what if Coleman beats him down badly? Would he still be a great?

    Shammy in his day was a killer, he beat Masakatsu Funaki twice (fellow HOF'er) Bas Rutten twice (Fellow HOF'er) Drew with Gracie (fellow HOF'er) after the match went 36mins and there were no Scorecards back in the day! Perhaps a moral win like Wandys 'draw' with Crocop was... you only have to look at Gracies face after the fight (also drew with Taktarov but kept his title because of same rules) Anyway getting off track he beat Dan Severn (fellow HOF'er)... By the time Tito beat him even in the 1st fight he had already lost to Don Frye and Ironhead Fujita... he clearly was past his best... Thats 5 or 6 wins over fellow HOF'ers depending on how you saw the Gracie fight or if you want to be official!

    Titos win over him dont mean much, the 1st one was granted a decent win.... but nothing to write home about. Shammy was aproaching 40 and has a fighter that Peaked early... It was like Larry Holmes' win over Ali... sure its great to beat Ali and sure Larry is a great figher but it really depends when a fight happens in someones career (sorry if your not a boxing fan and that comparison makes no sence!!)

    Tito for me still needs to prove himself in my eyes but Id be very interested to see if others see it differently.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Shanemc on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:02 am

    Genki Sudo? has wins over Nate Marquardt,Mike thomas brown and for what its worth ramon dekkers and butterbean and always had crazy entrances Smile
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:17 am

    I agree he could still screw up his legacy, if he comes in and loses all his fights in the UFC he will have screwed up. I see him beating Coleman who is a fellow HOFer so that could make his case stronger. If he loses and gets his ass kicked, well then my whole point will become invalid. I don't see him being a threat in the division, I think guys like Bader, Jones, Cane and Franklin would all beat him so we don't even need to consider Shogun, Rampage and god forbid a Machida rematch. I think he should try avoid becoming a gatekeeper somehow and take the big, big fights against older competition like Coleman or a rematch with the Janitor. There is no need for him take on young athletes like Bader, Jones and Cane.

    Also ye I agree the victory over Shammy was virtually worthless, I don't dispute that however my point was that it was a changing of the torch and the start of a change for MMA. I haven't always thought that Tito deserves this recognition but for some reason i've changed my mind. He was for a time the poster boy of the UFC.

    (sorry if your not a boxing fan and that comparison makes no sence!!)

    Im not a huge boxing fan but I do know who Ali and Holmes are! Smile Not fair to even compare Ali to Shamrock.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:18 am

    yeah Sudo rocks! a really good figher, I didnt actually know he beat Nate!!! I take it that was in Pancrase? I think he would just fall shy of the hall of fame in my eyes anyway, I was always carefull to keep the standard very high, If it slipped a little lower then why not Carlos Newton? Pat Miletich? Jeremy Horn? Renzo Gracie? I dont know, Ill keep him and Tito as possibilities and if others agree they will go in for sure... Maby I just dont like him because he beat Butterbean! lol! Ive always been a Bean fan!! But yeah we will see what others think... whats your view on Tito? Yay or Nay?

    Speaking of the gracies what about Rickson Gracie? He is only 11-0 in MMA but some say he was the best fighter ever... Mostly himself but a few others too!!
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Shanemc on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:25 am

    i wouldnt put tito in just yet i think he needs a few more good wins to cement his legacy see how he does in this run in the ufc then talk about putting him in
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:28 am

    ChelseaQuinsfan! haha forgot you were a boxing fan!! I dont like Shammy or Ali. But good point about Tito being the posterboy and the passing of the torch... I suppose he was top dog for a while. If he gets passed Coleman ill add him I reckon, At least he will have added anoter shot legend to his record!! I just have a badf feeling he could flop in UFC and we will have added a guy who just doesnt really stack up to the rest....

    Ill either wait till he beats Coleman or someone tells me im Bios and ol' Melonhead diserves to be in... what you think of Rickson to be added?
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Tue Aug 18, 2009 12:52 am

    Rickson Gracie hmmm, haha, TBH i like him, he seems like a nice guy but his arrogance for an old man is incredible. I remember we discussed him on 606 not too long ago, something about how he would beat Lesner and Fedor with ease. He is 11-0 (in his mind 400-0) but I don't think his record warrants a position in the HOF. He has done loads for the sport and I wish he was 27-28 nowadays to see how he would do. He certainly has the charisma to hype up fights. His levels of BJJ are incredible, 8th degree which is an incredible achievement however he hasn't done enough in MMA to be considered HOF material.

    As for Tito, I agree Coleman is make or break.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Ginginho on Tue Aug 18, 2009 2:42 am

    How about "Mach" Sakurai? I don't know a lot about the earlier days of MMA but it's a name I hear quite a lot of....

    If your criteria include what they have done outside the cage, then I would go for Pat Miletich. I reckon he did a lot for Matt Hughes and I believe his own fighting career suffered when Hughes became champ. His autobiography is a bloody good read!!!
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  great_ginger_10 on Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:37 am

    Does Barnett really deserve a place on a Hall of Fame considering his drugs record. I think stuff like that discredits you and your sport and would not include him. Same goes for K Shamrock in my opinion, doesn't mean they were not good but they screwed up and their records are tarnished.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Shanemc on Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:29 pm

    what about Takanori Gomi he was the shooto ww champ and the pride lw champ has wins over jens pulver,marcus aurelio,Tatsuya Kawajiri,hayato sakurai and duane ludwig also has the fastest ko in pride history 6 seconds ko with knees against ralph gracie. has an impressive record of 30wins with only 5 losses think he deserves a shout here
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:45 pm

    Miletich is a name i would like to see in there.

    one of my all-time favourite fighters, one of the first fighters to be well versed in every aspect. first UFC welterweight and lightweight champion, defended his belt 4 times and trained some of the greats Jens Pulver, Matt Hughes and Ti.... did i say Pulver?

    Mach Sakurai was another of the first well rounded fighters, dunno if hes done enough to be in there, he has beaten some great names, maybe id have him in there if hed won the gp the other week.

    Saying Mark Coleman is "make or break" is wrong, he would be one of the first five names to put in there, top 3-5 of the greatesst ever heavys
    [list][*]Invented ground and pound
    The prototype for all future wrestlers to be successful in MMA
    First UFC heavyweight champion despite what Ken tells us.
    First PRIDE champion in the most remarkable carreer turn around to date defeating the 33-1 Igor.
    Oldest man to win a fight in the octagon.

    I dont think getting caught for drugs should be a tarnish on a HOF reputation, there are probably 5-10 guys on there who have roided including people who have actually been caught for it in Royce. Barnetts acheivments sneak him in for me.

    As for Tito, major props for carrying MMA in north america in the so-called "dark days" but hes lost to all the HOF class fighters hes ever faced (apart from a very old chinny shamrock, who shouldnt have been fighting a top guy) Couture, Chuck twice and Frank Shamrock who was 200 lbs soaking wet even in his peak. he had about a 30 lb advantage in that fight if not more. so its doubtful whether or not he gets i, a successful return would secure his place.


    p.s.. Gomi should be in there for sure, one of my all time favourites agian.


    Last edited by manschesthair_utd on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:46 pm

    I think you misunderstood me mate, what I meant was that the result of the Colema-Tito fight is make or break for TITO not Coleman. Make or break in the HOF and make or break in his current UFC career. Nothing to do with Coleman.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:57 pm

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:I think you misunderstood me mate, what I meant was that the result of the Colema-Tito fight is make or break for TITO not Coleman. Make or break in the HOF and make or break in his current UFC career. Nothing to do with Coleman.

    ah!
    sorry should have read more closely, but i think your right about tito.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:27 pm

    sorry should have read more closely, but i think your right about tito.


    Haha, no problem mate, honest mistake.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Tue Aug 18, 2009 11:58 pm

    Miletich and Gomi should both be in i think. Gomi is the greatest LW ever and Miletich is the most successful fighter turned trainer. The only black mark against him is that he once described Tim Sylvia as a great fighter.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Aug 19, 2009 3:58 am

    Lads Ive added Gomi, I cant believe Ive overlooked him! He was one of the greatest Lw's ever!! Most seem to agree Tito hasnt quite got into the HOF yet, so lets see how his new run in UFC goes...

    Pat Miletich has come up a couple of times, Im not 100% if its a fighters only HOF I say no. Pat has great in the day and went on some run but fell short against other top guys, Carlos Newton should be perhaps in if Pat is... I think once you lower the standard of fighter you open the floodgates to why not Horn who has had well over 100 fights and dedicated himself to MMA... or Rickson Gracie.. for being the hardest gracie or the older gracies who introduced the world to BJJ....

    I origianlly ment this as a fighters hall of fame, I never want it to get to the point were guys like Mask are in. If everyone wants Pat in BASED ON WHAT HE DID AS A FIGHTER fair enough... ill add him.... anyway HOF records are updated and Gomi added

    (Cool thing was that Dan Severn had more fights than any other since last time I updated it!! That guy is a real legend... despite his fights being so boring!!)
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Aug 19, 2009 10:05 pm

    Well Pat was the first UFC welterweight champion. I think the problem is, he was very near the end of his career when he won that title. Newton was in his prime when he beat Miletich and look what happened to Newton, Matt Hughes dropped him on his head and he did nothing from there.

    I would say Jeremy Horn should be in, but maybe that's just me.

    Rickson has done nothing in MMA to deserve to be in. He's probably the greatest BJJ fighter of all time but in MMA he's not even in the debate as the best Gracie.

    I do think Helio Gracie should be in though.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:07 pm

    Lads I think im going to add BJ Penn and Anderson Silva... I think its hard to argue that either man doesnt diserve to me in there. They are going in sometime and I think why not now... Its not like they are young guys or havnt proven themselves yet...

    What about Minowa? Albion_Oakley really wants him in!! And so to I!! Im a huge fan of his... im torn between the Wandy and Shogun or the Minowa dropkicking Butterbean avatar (people more know me as a Wandy nuthugger though! lol)

    What do people think on Minowa being added? If he beats Choi in the Superhulk tournament maby?

    He has made short work of very big fighters as well as some very good ones.

    Yvel - 1st round
    Butterbean - 1st round
    Giany Silva - 1st round
    Bob Sapp - 1st round
    Errol Zimmerman - 1st round
    Don Frye - 1st round
    Phil Baroni - UD
    Kimo Leopoldo - 1st round
    Stefan Leko - 1st round
    Daiju Takase - 1st round (one of the guys to beat Anderson Silva)


    Minowa is probabally at natural welterweigth having fought at 170lbs before, maby lower? Anyone know? So his achievments are more impressive seeing as he has fought so many Heavys and superheavys..

    In Defeat Minowa hasnt looked bad against good opponents he took the following the distance.

    Paulo Filho - UD loss
    Ryan Gracie - SD loss
    Ricardo Almeida - UD loss
    Chris Lytle - Draw
    Semmy Schilt - Not the distance but went 15mins in Pancras (would love to see the fight if anyone can find it!!)

    Losses were he looked bad included

    Rampage - 2nd round KO
    Wanderlei - 1st round KO
    Crocop - 1st round KO
    Sakuraba - 1st round sub... though he did hold out for about 10mins

    But it speaks volumes that he not only will get in the ring with all the biggest ever fighers in MMA but also the best and most ruthless knockout artists. I say if were looking at fighers like Jeremy horn for his sheer volume of fights and not because he is one of the best fighers we should deffo consider Minowa who has about 80 and has fought nearly every superheavy he can get his hands on... Wehter or not we put him in the HOF I hope he beats Choi in the Superhulk tournament... and Id be even happier if he won it however unlikely!! Its the type of tournament thats just sums his career up!
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Tue Aug 25, 2009 11:12 pm

    wait what am I talking about it was a UD loss to Schilt...so another good figher he lasted to the end with!
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:10 am

    I think WW is the lowest he has fought, which is still pretty small when fighting Butterbean and Sapp! He could get in I suppose.

    Silva and Penn will be in eventually, just like GSP. Something trule terrible would have to happen to ruin that. Id still like to see Bj fight guys like Aoki, Hellboy and Alvarez (I think he can beat all 3) so he can prove that without a doubt he is the greatest LW of all time. Gomi has a strong case for that honour. As for Silva, maybe a little later, he only has 4 or 5 BIG names on his record.
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    Re: Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

    Post  Albion_Oakley on Wed Aug 26, 2009 1:10 pm

    I think Minowa should definately be in there. his record is 42 - 30 - 8 which is creeping into severn/Horn territory in terms of the amount of fights, and he's still only 33 years old. He will fight absolutely anybody, I honestly believe that he would have taken the Fedor fight for affliction at 10 minutes notice!

    He has fought and beaten MASSIVE opponents on many occasions and shows the type of fighting spirit and willingness and ability to entertain that are all really important in such a young sport as MMA.

    As for the Superhulk tournament, I reckon he will leglock Choi into next week and meet Mousasi in the final, which may be a bridge too far. I would LOVE him to win it though.

    One of the things that impresses me most about him is that he effectively generates his own publicity and interest in his fights, without the need for the sometimes ridiculous hype machine that certain promotions put behind some of their fighters. (Anderson Silva best pound for pound fighter in the world? Fedor emelianenko scared of Brock Lesnar? give it a rest).

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