UFC 121 ..........SPOILERS!!!!!

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:Chesty, I mean

1) in terms of people no longer believing the UFC hype machine. They tried to push Lesnar as the best HW in the world. FAILED. Turned out to be an average fighter who's size is his only weapon. They tried to push Lesnar-Carwin as the biggest HW match up ever. FAILED. Turned out to be two averages fighters, one with no guts, the other with no cardio. Maybe people will now start watching fights and forming their own opinions.

2) We could see the floodgates open to all the Mexican talent that boxing has had a monopoly on for the past 25 years! Mexico is a true combat sports . Time for MMA to start seeing some of that talent.

3) It could be seen as the moment when the process of the passing the title of the worlds best HW based from Fedor to Cain began. Let's be real here, people who knew how great Fedor was never even considered Lesnar as a threat. And despite the loss to Werdum, most still saw Fedor as the number 1 guy. Cain moves right in behind him now and with a couple more big wins, could take that crown.

i generally agree, i would like to think that people will form their own opinions based on the fights and not the countdown shows
but not everyone sees every fight so the hype machine will still be important tool for selling the fights.

I hope you are right on the second point, there are loads of Mexicans who love to fight and it will increase the overall talents in MMA by a lot.

Fedor and Cain is a really interesting comparison, there are a lot of similaritys in their style...the striking style is quite similar for a start, and they both push the fight relentlessly..along with brutal ground and pound

where they differ is that being based in wrestling, he will never have the submission arsenal that Fedor has, or be as comfortable on his back....but he will also find himself on his back less


Cain/Fedor is THE superfight right now IMO.
you also have Overeem, JDS, Werdum at the top but that would be the big one!!

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:I would just like to congratulate myself and Pete for talking about Cain as the future UFC HW champ for the past two years.

I called it as well. Although, I thought last night might just have been too soon for Cain. I'm delighted to say I was wrong.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:I would just like to congratulate myself and Pete for talking about Cain as the future UFC HW champ for the past two years.

Right back at you dude

and props to Moose as well.


Wondering where this leaves Brock now. He was so brutally taken apart last night.

Just abit of banter Anfield


McGee, Sanchez and Cain were the men of the night. Great performance, heart and skill by each. Shields gassed badly, he should get another fight with either Fitch or Condit before getting a title shot. Funny when Shields couldnt give a shit about Kampanns sub game

Gonzaga is in poor shape and very slow and his heart does not seem to be into fighting, Schaub did well, Tito should just go away, his body has been through alot and he cant compete anymore.


Madsen shocked me, Yvel to get his walking papers. Brock will fight Mir next and Cain-JDS and Carwin-Nelson.

I think Cain will outwork JDS in a 5 round fight, and i see JDS gassing after round 2. Cain would then fight Carwin (who i think will beat Nelson easily) then (Brock-Mir winner).

That how Cain's title defense route will go. I can see him and JDS being the future of the whole division and having a trilogy or more.

Exciting times in HW division.

Times have changed so quickly. Wasn't long ago everyone was jizzing themselves over Lesnar and Mir's rivalry.

I can't wait to hear what Mir has got to say about last night.

Last night I was stunned beyond belief. I am still a loss for words, I could never imagine that what happened last night happened. Absolutely shocked that Jon Madsen finished a fight !

I'm really happy for Cain, he looked terrific and frankly Lesnar looked awful. He gassed himself with a poor game plan and was absolutely battered. All this talk of Lesnar moving like a 170 was proven to be false as Cain looked a lot quicker than him. It took Cain some time to get in control but when he did he looked devastating. I never had a problem with Lesnar and I wanted him to beat Mir and Carwin, but I wanted Velasquez to win this one. Delighted he has.

As for the other fights, McGee didn't look good against a journey man fighter, Sanchez put on a great performance to get back on the right track and Shields edged out a close fight. Shields clearly didn't handle the weight cut right, I don't know if 170 is a great idea for him. I had Kampmann winning the 2nd round and I was expecting him to go on and win the fight.

Red I hope your ready for a name change!

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Last night I was stunned beyond belief. I am still a loss for words, I could never imagine that what happened last night happened. Absolutely shocked that Jon Madsen finished a fight.

I did not know that had happened.

I guess Yvel will be getting his papers shortly.

They showed it after Lesnar vs Velasquez.

Anyone else find it embarrassing that a man as experienced as Yvel, a guy who has over 50 fights still has the ground game he does? Appalling.

Aye, I recorded it but turned it off after the title fight so I could watch City v Arsenal. It was a tough decision with Madsen coming up.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:They showed it after Lesnar vs Velasquez.

Anyone else find it embarrassing that a man as experienced as Yvel, a guy who has over 50 fights still has the ground game he does? Appalling.

there are fighters with worse ground games, i believe Yvel is a BJJ purple belt and has a couple of submission wins....but when you hold the record for most knockout victories of anyone in MMA its best to stick to what you know

You missed a once in a lifetime event there mate, im not sure it will ever happen again.

The other big shock from last night was that I didn't hear any excuses from Tito! I was holding back tears ready to hear about a broken back or something.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:You missed a once in a lifetime event there mate, im not sure it will ever happen again.

The other big shock from last night was that I didn't hear any excuses from Tito! I was holding back tears ready to hear about a broken back or something.

afterwards he blamed ring rust apparently.

there are fighters with worse ground games, i believe Yvel is a BJJ purple belt and has a couple of submission wins....but when you hold the record for most knockout victories of anyone in MMA its best to stick to what you know

It's not so much his submission or even submission defense that's the problem, but whenever he gets taken down he looks so helplessly lost I feel sorry for him. I'm not sure where he got the BB from, a lot of these belts don't mean anything. The fighter who has the most submission losses is a BB in BJJ!

And I don't think there's anyone with a worse ground game than Manhoef right now.

manschesthair_utd wrote:Awesome performance by Cain, i picked Cain to win in the predictions, but as Brock was walking to the cage i was starting to think Brock would win....then i remembered that he looks better walking to the cage then he does in it

I think in terms of rankings he probably hasn't earned the number one spot, but similar to the lightweight division, there are a few guys who are elite and head and shoulders above the rest.

HW i mean Cain, Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, then JDS.

LW i mean Melendez, Aoki, Alvarez, Edgar and BJ.

Overeem? Really??

Wikipedia is already listing Mir v Lesnar as in the works for UFC 126.

Its a bit premature but it'll be interesting to see how Lesnar comes back from a big defeat like this.

i enjoyed the event even if brock got beat, im glad sanchez won and the monkey flip then slam was exciting.

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:Awesome performance by Cain, i picked Cain to win in the predictions, but as Brock was walking to the cage i was starting to think Brock would win....then i remembered that he looks better walking to the cage then he does in it

I think in terms of rankings he probably hasn't earned the number one spot, but similar to the lightweight division, there are a few guys who are elite and head and shoulders above the rest.

HW i mean Cain, Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, then JDS.

LW i mean Melendez, Aoki, Alvarez, Edgar and BJ.

Overeem? Really??

what i mean is apart from the others on that list, i think Overeem is a level above everyone.
guys like Carwin, Nelson, Sergei, Big foot, Brock, Mir....possibly not Barnetto, but you get the idea, i don't think those guys can touch the guys on the list

manschesthair_utd wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:Awesome performance by Cain, i picked Cain to win in the predictions, but as Brock was walking to the cage i was starting to think Brock would win....then i remembered that he looks better walking to the cage then he does in it

I think in terms of rankings he probably hasn't earned the number one spot, but similar to the lightweight division, there are a few guys who are elite and head and shoulders above the rest.

HW i mean Cain, Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, then JDS.

LW i mean Melendez, Aoki, Alvarez, Edgar and BJ.

Overeem? Really??

what i mean is apart from the others on that list, i think Overeem is a level above everyone.
guys like Carwin, Nelson, Sergei, Big foot, Brock, Mir....possibly not Barnetto, but you get the idea, i don't think those guys can touch the guys on the list

Is Barnett ever going to fight again though? Has he got anything lined up?

thats why i did not include him, he hasn't fought anyone relevant in a while. And unlike Overeem he isnt keeping busy.
I believe he can still be an elite fighter, and i seem to recall him saying the first fight on the strikeforce contract would be around february.

manschesthair_utd wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:Awesome performance by Cain, i picked Cain to win in the predictions, but as Brock was walking to the cage i was starting to think Brock would win....then i remembered that he looks better walking to the cage then he does in it

I think in terms of rankings he probably hasn't earned the number one spot, but similar to the lightweight division, there are a few guys who are elite and head and shoulders above the rest.

HW i mean Cain, Fedor, Overeem, Werdum, then JDS.

LW i mean Melendez, Aoki, Alvarez, Edgar and BJ.

Overeem? Really??

what i mean is apart from the others on that list, i think Overeem is a level above everyone.
guys like Carwin, Nelson, Sergei, Big foot, Brock, Mir....possibly not Barnetto, but you get the idea, i don't think those guys can touch the guys on the list

Ahhh fair enough!




My two cents on the Main Event, as its the only fight i've seen so far.



Brock looked brilliant for about 30 seconds, the first takedown was just raw power but as soon as Cain (rather brilliantly) popped back to his feet Brock seemed to crumble mentally, and then not long after that, he gassed too. He looked absolutely out on his feet and Cain's standup looked great.


Brock still clearly doesn't react well to getting hit and thats gotta change if he's ever gonna get to the top again. Cain reacted perfectly to getting hit, Lesnar clearly has big power and landed on Cain a few times in exchanges but the difference was when Cain was hit he shook it off and fired back his own strike, Brock did not.


So where next for Brock? If he still has fights on his contract i'd expect him to fulfill them, with a Mir rubber match the obvious matchup to make, and then call it a day. I don't think hes cut out for regrouping and fighting his way back to the top, he just doesn't seem the type. His reign was good while it lasted and he'll always be remembered in the sport but his time is over now. The so called "new breed of heavyweights" seem to have come and gone (ie Brock and Carwin). IMO he'll honour his contract and then go do something else in his spare time, has he tried Baseball yet?


Mad props to Cain as well, really happy for him, he looked great and i cannot WAIT for the JDS fight now. If JDS sorts his cardio we could be in for a barnstormer!

Also just watched the post fight interview and Brock is a great guy.


Joe: I'm sure that you're gonna go back to the drawing board, learn from your mistakes and come back stronger?

Brock: That's what a champion does right?


I'll always be a fan!

His post fight interview was good but he's far from a great guy. Are you willing to accept that he's not an elite level HW now after getting beaten so badly last night?

iv been guilty of jumping on the brock band wagon and must say i thought he looked nervous coming to the cage and at tht point in my mind i knew cain was gonna win.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:His post fight interview was good but he's far from a great guy. Are you willing to accept that he's not an elite level HW now after getting beaten so badly last night?

i realised this after the last few fights:

he has very good wrestling, but not the best...
he has a powerful ground and pound attack...
and his striking is technically the worst of any top 10 fighter in any division!!

edit:

oh, and if he wants to see how to react after getting rocked, he should look at cain's fights.