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So When Liddell got KO'd in the GP and Wanderlei won it.... that didnt mean Wanderlei was ranked over him

Thats crazy to me... and also not how rankings work.

Tito > Wanderlei???

Really? Wanderlei was top p4p figher in all of MMA

in 2003/2004 Wanderlei was best figher in the world bar none... The guy ran thought Sakuraba (top p4p) Rampage Jackson (twice) who had beat Liddell, Yoshida a guy how has been upto Heavyweight and his list of wins speaks for its self.

Too many bangs on the head, got my years mixed up. Fact remains, Pride had BY FAR the better LHW division.

Thats fair enough Anfield

but still UFC > Pride


Ben,Chuck beat more good fighters before the tournament to earn being ranked higher than Wandi and he won more against good fighters after.

One loss shouldn't change that especially when it wasn't even wandi that beat him.

If thats the case,then rich Franklin was the No 1 MW over Hendo because Hendo lost to Misaki.


of coarse he wasn't but you can't have it one way for some and another way for others.

As I said before,Wandi during his Pride career had fought 6 differant top fighters (2 MW's)and lost to three of them,where as during the same time Chuck fought 12 differant top fighters and lost to 2 of them and not a single MW among them.

Sakuraba was a great MW figting above his weight and Yoshida was only a name because he was a Japanese favourite,because of his Olympic Gold,but he was crap in MMA,who did he actually beat,because I know it wasn't the super star that is James thompson.

Tito > Wanderlei??? well yeah since he beat him and the fact that Tito was the No1 ranked LHW when that tournament was going on.

Your rankings don't work that way.
hype and unproven records can get them high up on your lists.
Rankings work how the author decides,it's all personal opinion,which is fine but it doesn't mean it's correct.

Perfect example in your rankings is Zaromskis,which I was saying for ages but none of you were having it,because you all went with the Hype(the next coming of Cro-Cop or something) of his 3 HK wins against mach who was around the top 15 and two guys that were nowhere near.

The fact that he lost to Che Mills 3 fights before or the fact that it was a second rate tournament in Dream didn't seem to matter,put him top 10 because he can kick people in the head
Even after Diaz schooled him,you still had him at 9th
and know he just got out classed by Cyborg of all fighters.

By the way does this now mean Cyborg is ranked above 9th

Yet when serra beat GSP in the strongest Org out there,he got zero credit,he loses to GSP and former greatest WW Hughes and beats Trigg but he's not even in your list,talk about double standards.
By the way I agree that serra isn't quite top 15,because,I think the win over GSP would of just put him on the list and then his two loses back to back probably take him back off.

Thats why he wouldn't be in mine,why exactly isn't he in yours?
since if you used the same way you ranked zaromskis,serra should still be in the top 8.


This is what I mean about,why you should never go into the top 10 on the back of one win,like you have with Mousasi,zaromskis and Mo lately,if they are top 10 let them prove it and earn a spot up the rankings,then there is no debate.

You and many others are suckers for falling for the hype of people outside the UFC and still actually believe that these fighters in Dream/Sengaku are actually up to standard with the WEC or UFC guys,when results against the top western fighters completely show a different picture.

A good run of results against good fighters in that division IMO is what earns you a spot in the top 10,not one good win or a few good wins in the division below or a tournament win in a weak ORG.

I would say a top 5 guy from the division below after a win in the new division should probably make the bottom of the list(depending on how the fighters around there have done at the time)and then there wins and loses from there,should determine where they end up in the rankings.

Payne you do realise you'll never get the time it took you to write all that back????????????????????????????????????????????

I'll live,Wife and kids have been away and I've been slow at work this week,so just passing time,taking out my frustrations on here instead of staring at four walls waiting for customers.

Some of us enjoy watching the free MMA lessons Payne is giving to members here

haha Point taken on Serra though he was very inactive and that was part of the reason he dropped, fighters below him were fightign and winning so he had to slide down.

Whitemare got exposed big time, you can write off winning that dream GP, Mach is a seriously good fighter and he looked a wrecking machine in that one. Id probabally say this loss takes him out of the top 15 as him and Cyborg have to meet halfway which Cyborg being top 100 means they are both maby top 20-30 now.... or we could put Cyborg as a ranked Ww.... personally I dont think either is ranked right now.

Still think your talking out your arse about Chuck and Tito being better than Wanderlei, your massivley writing off Sakuraba who could have tapped Tito,

Yoshida is a fighter you can dismiss as a good win!! 1st fight with Wanderlei he was undefeated and 2 of his wins were Tamura and Frye

payneNglory1 wrote:Thats fair enough Anfield

but still UFC > Pride

In terms of the way it was run and the money behind it, yes. In terms of fighters and events, not even close.

redmeanie77 wrote:Some of us enjoy watching the free MMA lessons Payne is giving to members here

Traslation:

WE UFC FANBOYS ENJOY BIGGING UP THE UFC AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT AND PRETENDING THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE NUMBER 1 PROMOTION IN THE WORLD.

winning any Dream GP IMO is less impressive than winning a Bellator tournament
Look at currans run,he beat GSP's training partner Ricci,huerta and Imada and Askren has just beat Ryan Thomas and Dan Hornbuckle.


Still think your talking out your arse about Chuck and Tito being better than Wanderlei, your massivley writing off Sakuraba who could have tapped Tito,

I don't blame you one bit mate since Wandi is one of your all time favourites,i'll defend Randy to the end also,even though the facts don't always back me up

I mean who cares if Chuck and Tito beat Wandi and Chuck has double the good wins against twice as many good fighters and one less loss during the same period.

chuck lost to Rampage and Wandi beat Rampage,so of coarse wandi was better

I'm honestly not under rating Sakuraba,he was one of the original great MW's,a pioneer who paved the way for the next generation of fighters,but lets not kid ourselves that he could compete successfully against the new crop of fighters that followed him,he was competitive but never a favourite against any of them and surely beating a guy who you've already beaten easily the 1st time twice more doesn't really mean that much,come on look at the stink that was created when Chuck - Tito 3 was supposed to happen,yet Tito was a former champ and former no1 LHW,Sakuraba was never any of those.

Yoshida like I said was a name because he was a Japanese hero due to his great Olympic Judo background,but when he fought wandi,it was his 4th pro fight.
Beating frye in his 1st fight was a good win for him no doubt, but to be fair,it was a Don frye who had not long come off a 5 year retirement from the sport and was basically just an old school tough guy who could put bums in seats but who's skills and defense were,well limited at best,just check out the Shamrock and Takayama fights just before to see that.
Tamura was another good natural MW who was relevant about 3 years before that fight,he had lost 5 out of 7 going into that fight and then went into a 2 year retirement the same year.

so wandi beating yoshida twice wasn't good wins,they were expected wins and would of been a shocker if he lost.

WE UFC FANBOYS ENJOY BIGGING UP THE UFC AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT AND PRETENDING THAT IT'S ALWAYS BEEN THE NUMBER 1 PROMOTION IN THE WORLD.

Thats not true at all,Shooto,Rings and for a little while Pancrase were all better untill November 1993

Im not taking sides on this or anything but I'd just like to say Wandy was and still is a natural MW as well, he just chose to fight at the weight above. He isn't even that big as a MW, there are a few WWs bigger than him. So when he beat Sakuraba, I don't think you can blame it on size because Wandy wasn't very big either was he? Tito on the other hand is absolutely massive, is there a bigger LHW around? He was 240 at times in his career. Before the Lesnar's and the Carwins entered the sport, Tito could have probably fought at HW.

Wanderlei was huge when he was in Pride, he is not a natural 185, he had to slim down alot to make 185 against Bisping, and even then we all had doubts if he could cut the weight without too much effect.

Wanderlei outweighed Crocop in the Open weight GP.

Rampage stated on MMA Live that he wants to fight Forrest Griffin next. He gave no mention of Machida.

Thoughts?

I think it's just a case of he's embarrassed about the Forrest loss and won't admit he got beat fair and sqaure,the same with Evans now.

Plus after watching what Silva did to him and Evans straight after,just adds to it,he can't handle it,won't own it and is now just coming across as a dick that is full of excuses.

The thing is,Rampage is capable of battering both of them but both of them exposed his flaws and found a way to beat him,while avoiding his power punches and if rampage doesn't do something about it and put the work in the gym,others will follow the same pattern against him.

I read earlier abit about how Rampage feels he has a rat around him because he said he had a knee injury and didn't tell anyone apart from his camp and his doctor.He also said that he should of pulled out the Evans fight because of it,but couldn't because of letting all his fans down after all the hype around this fight,but for some reason Evans must of found out because he was punching him in that knee during the fight.(I don't recall seeing that)Also it was the boring Jackson tactics and not because Rashad is a good fighter,why he lost.

This fight was Hyped from TUF,but it didn't stop you letting the fans down and quitting to play BA did it.


And Chelsea,it took over a year just for Wandi to get down to MW and he still didn't look comfortable in that weight against Bisping,i'm hoping he will against the sexy one though.

Here's the bit I read earlier

Looking back on his loss to Rashad Evans at UFC 114, Quinton Jackson talks to Fighter's Only about the fight:

"I apologize for the fight not so much because I lost but because of how it went down. I always like to put on exciting fights for the fans but Rashad came out to use that ‘Greg Jackson’ plan: be boring and squeak out a victory. So that bothers me more than the loss. I remember one other thing he was doing - he was punching me in my knee! It was weird because I had suffered a real bad knee injury in camp but we kept it secret, we didn’t say anything about it and we didn’t even tell the UFC. I told my doctor and that was it, he helped me out but I was going to back out of the fight. The only reason I didn’t back out was the fight had been so hyped and I didn’t want to disappoint the fans. Why was he punching me in the knee though? That’s kind of weird - did he find out about the injury? I don’t know. Its weird."

Rashad responds

Gotta love Rashad. I thought he fought a great fight against Rampage and he won it easily by doing what he's good at. He didn't just do a GSP and dryhump Rampage. He mixed it up.

Anfields5thKing wrote:Rampage stated on MMA Live that he wants to fight Forrest Griffin next. He gave no mention of Machida.

Thoughts?

If they decide to do that rematch, then surely Machida will fight Lil Nog next. I thought they will do Nog-Forrest and Machida-Rampage. But we'll just wait and see. Maybe one of these guys will wait for Randy but Machida has said he wants to fight around september time and get back on track quick.


I guess Joe Silva working all this out now, so we will see...

Im not talking about weight, he has always been heavy. Look at his frame though, he is about 5'11 and has a small frame. Look at him stand next to Hendo, small in comparison. Wandy is a natural MW.

Rashad Evans wall n stalled against Rampage in the second round. GSP tried to finish the fight.

Id rather see Rampage vs Griffin than Machida. That would be a competitive fight. Not sure who Machida fights though, Jones maybe?

So whats Barry's natural weight class then,since he's only 5'11

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Im not talking about weight, he has always been heavy. Look at his frame though, he is about 5'11 and has a small frame. Look at him stand next to Hendo, small in comparison. Wandy is a natural MW.

Rashad Evans wall n stalled against Rampage in the second round. GSP tried to finish the fight.

Id rather see Rampage vs Griffin than Machida. That would be a competitive fight. Not sure who Machida fights though, Jones maybe?

Evans wore Rampage down. He knew he only had a certain amount of cardio after so long out. He took it away from him. That's not something he would do against someone fighting regularly. Smart tactics. GSP doesn't try to finish fights. He just goes in to grind out decisions.

Machida is a terrible fight for Jones at this moment. No point having Jones embarrassed this early in his career. How about Machida-Arona?

I actually think Jones has a better chance than most to beat Machida, I think he would do well but I think it might be too early.

Arons vs Machida is a great call! Only problem is Arona will be very rusty. I think he needs a gimme fight first.

Bones is too young to fight Machida and not get schooled beyond belief. Machida would beat him easily.

Didn't know where else to put this, it's that random!

Bellator commentator Sean Wheelock, who is also an experienced soccer commentator, discussing how David Beckham would do in MMA:

“At this point, I don’t think he would have the desire. Also, his knees and his hips are shot, but somebody who is that naturally talented … he’s very, very smart tactically. … David Beckham, if he came in at 20 years old, I think he would do really well because he would have that desire to be the best. He’s obviously incredibly coordinated. If he would come in now, he has so much money, he wouldn’t have the desire to do it. But 15 years ago, I think he would probably excel in this sport.”

what....? thats is the most random thing ive heard all day