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    Post  Anfields5thKing Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:56 pm

    Khalidov is the clear choice for number 10.

    Belcher is crap and has lost 2 of his last 5 against sub-standard competition, Bisping beats up cans and get beaten by anyone decent, Wandi has one 1 fight in 3 years.

    Palhaeres is the only other one worth taking about.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:13 am

    Yes, he does have a weak chin.

    Let's look at people Buentello has KO'd in the last 2 years. Here's the list:





    No, wait, there's no1. He's got one TKO due to a doctors stoppage. But perhaps you're refering to the mighty list of people he KO'd between 06 and 07. A list containing the feared warriors, Carter Williams, Ruben Villareal, Tank Abbott or Gilbert Aldana. Men with a combined 18 KO loses against their records. And Villareal's corner stopped that fight. Not Buentello or the ref. Buentello is shot and his power is gone.

    Kongo hits harder than any HW not named Lesnar or Carwin. And he never dropped him. To drop someone is to knock them down, Cain was never knocked down.

    Lawlor doesn't need to get the fight to the ground though genius. He just needs to hit him. Santiago needs to get the fight to the ground and to that he's going to get hit.

    Ninja Rua is far better than your precious Belcher. So he's a decent fighter. Lawlor knocked him out.


    Buentello has always hit hard, power just doesn't go away when you get old. Look at Mercer for example. Struve just gave him the oppurtunity like Arvloski gave Fedor the oppurtunity to nail him, that it. If Buentello gave Velasquez that shot, Velasquez would have been on his ass. Not Koed but stubmled. There is no relevane to your claim because Struve was not KOed. If he was Id agree but he wasn't, just like Velasquez wasn't agaisnt Kongo. Fedor probably hits, no definitley hits harder than Kongo and Overoid with all those roids might as well. Possibly even Mir, Kongo's power is overated, has he ever Koed anyone decent? As I said Velasquez has a decent chin, just a horrible stance. Kongo does as well and Mir exposed the beuatifully.

    He isn't going to hit, Santiago would just take him down and Lawler would be tapping before the fight hit the ground. Or get him in a standing Guiolltine like Shields did, the most telegraphed one in history.

    Ninja's rescord isn't more impressive than Belcher's. Ninja's biggest win is Joey Villasenor. And he has lost to plenty of sub-standard fighters. Not sure why you insist Belcher is crap, he has improved dramatically since that fight against Day where he was horrible. he is a young fighter who is improving a lot, sexyama is not sub-standard. He has lost one fight where he was 189 against a 265 Jerome Le Banner. Belcher beat Sexyama anyway and has just recently beagain to take his training seriously.

    Im happy with Khalidov at 10, but Belcher is not crap. Bisping is though.
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    Post  sunthunder Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:20 am

    Trigg fought Mayhem when he was bordering around the top 10-15, and he beat Misaki when Misaki had beaten Henderson and won the 2006 MWGP, Misaki was certainly top 10 when Trigg beat him, making Trigg top 10, and then Trigg lost to Lawler.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:23 am

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    payneNglory1 wrote:Lawler has never fought a top 15 MW in his whole career,yet he has lost to 2 MW's and 3 WW's

    He fought Evan Tanner who was one of the top 185ers in the world at the time.

    So you are wrong.

    I'm sorry,I was wrong about that.

    Tanner was good in his day.RIP
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:24 am

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Yes, he does have a weak chin.

    Let's look at people Buentello has KO'd in the last 2 years. Here's the list:





    No, wait, there's no1. He's got one TKO due to a doctors stoppage. But perhaps you're refering to the mighty list of people he KO'd between 06 and 07. A list containing the feared warriors, Carter Williams, Ruben Villareal, Tank Abbott or Gilbert Aldana. Men with a combined 18 KO loses against their records. And Villareal's corner stopped that fight. Not Buentello or the ref. Buentello is shot and his power is gone.

    Kongo hits harder than any HW not named Lesnar or Carwin. And he never dropped him. To drop someone is to knock them down, Cain was never knocked down.

    Lawlor doesn't need to get the fight to the ground though genius. He just needs to hit him. Santiago needs to get the fight to the ground and to that he's going to get hit.

    Ninja Rua is far better than your precious Belcher. So he's a decent fighter. Lawlor knocked him out.


    Buentello has always hit hard, power just doesn't go away when you get old. Look at Mercer for example. Struve just gave him the oppurtunity like Arvloski gave Fedor the oppurtunity to nail him, that it. If Buentello gave Velasquez that shot, Velasquez would have been on his ass. Not Koed but stubmled. There is no relevane to your claim because Struve was not KOed. If he was Id agree but he wasn't, just like Velasquez wasn't agaisnt Kongo. Fedor probably hits, no definitley hits harder than Kongo and Overoid with all those roids might as well. Possibly even Mir, Kongo's power is overated, has he ever Koed anyone decent? As I said Velasquez has a decent chin, just a horrible stance. Kongo does as well and Mir exposed the beuatifully.

    He isn't going to hit, Santiago would just take him down and Lawler would be tapping before the fight hit the ground. Or get him in a standing Guiolltine like Shields did, the most telegraphed one in history.

    Ninja's rescord isn't more impressive than Belcher's. Ninja's biggest win is Joey Villasenor. And he has lost to plenty of sub-standard fighters. Not sure why you insist Belcher is crap, he has improved dramatically since that fight against Day where he was horrible. he is a young fighter who is improving a lot, sexyama is not sub-standard. He has lost one fight where he was 189 against a 265 Jerome Le Banner. Belcher beat Sexyama anyway and has just recently beagain to take his training seriously.

    Im happy with Khalidov at 10, but Belcher is not crap. Bisping is though.

    Power doesn't go. But speed does. And Buentello was a fighter who generated his power through his speed.

    Cain wouldn't have been so retarded as to jump across the cage at Buentello. But that's shot wouldn't have knocked down most top HW's. Struve just has a poor chin. Struve was knocked on his ass. Cain never even hit the ground. Kongo hits far harder than Buentello and landed more clean shots. Cain's chin is far better than Struve's


    Should have clarifies UFC HW. Fedor hits harder than any MMA fighter, including Brock and Carwin. But again, it's all speed generated power. Kongo hits harder than Mir though. And certainly far harder than Paul Buentello.

    Santiago isn't nearly as good as Shields at grappling. And he walks into punches. Lawler would KO him within a minute. No question. Even if Santiago did get him down, he still hangs his chin out! The Cannibal KO'd him OFF HIS BACK! Santiago is up their with Arlovski, Thompson and Aoki in the chin department. Horrendous.

    Belcher is crap. He's fought nobody and lost to nobodies. Sexyama isn't a top level fighter. Ninja beat Rampage and got screwed far more than Belcher vs Sexy. And i think Rampage might be ever so slightly better than anyone Belcher has got near.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Dec 23, 2009 12:28 am

    payneNglory1 wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    payneNglory1 wrote:Lawler has never fought a top 15 MW in his whole career,yet he has lost to 2 MW's and 3 WW's

    He fought Evan Tanner who was one of the top 185ers in the world at the time.

    So you are wrong.

    I'm sorry,I was wrong about that.

    Tanner was good in his day.RIP

    Speaking of Tanner, Jake Rossen posted a top 10 stories related to MMA this decade. I usually avoid Rossen's articles because i find him about as interesting as a day watching lawn bowls but this one makes decent reading. Tanner's death is featured at number 7:

    Top 10 stories of the past 10 years

    Financially and functionally, the mixed martial arts scene of the 1990s had the organization of an upended wastebasket. There are moments valued with nostalgia -- if you need a remedial course on Royce Gracie's influence or the proliferation of opposing styles, grab a book -- but on the whole, it was just one big experimental phase, with everyone searching for the sense in a superficially disgusting sport. To stage a show without being chased out of town or arrested was considered an achievement. This is an environment that thrives on survival, not invention.

    Beginning in 2000, the changes were very nearly immediate (and, for the purposes of this article, convenient). Fighters began to understand layered training, and policymakers were finally clued in to the idea that an uptick in cage fights was never referenced in Revelation. Distanced from the label of ruining civilization, the sport was free to make its own kind of history. More than just being a key decade in mixed-fighting, it's really been the only decade.

    There's really no viable way of boiling down 10 years of stories -- life, death, trends, competition -- into a single list. It would almost be preferable to throw out 100 events and let readers prioritize them. But it's the holidays, and time is short, so what follows are the 10 stories that kept coming to the surface in examining what really shook the fight industry from 2000 to 2009. (And by examining, I mean to say, "Staring at a giant toy Octagon until the Chinese food came.")

    The 10 stories that mattered most:

    10. The New Year's Eve Wars in Japan (2001-Present)

    It's easy to be the only bakery on the block. You set your own hours, pick your own weddings and charge whatever you like. There's no nudge from competition.

    Give a customer options, though, and that's when things get hot. In MMA, that was the arrival of the end-of-year spectaculars in Japan, when promotions from Dream Stage (which housed Pride), K-1, Inoki and others began to angle for a slice of the staggering television market. (In Japan, New Year's Eve is big for television.) Top fighters were booked, and sometimes stolen wholesale, from under the noses of competing promotions; actors and other ill-equipped celebrities became grappling dummies. While some matches made little sense to Western audiences, it was a mega-budget, mega-high-risk game of chicken that forced multiple companies into promoting some absolutely terrific fights.

    Although Pride's demise and waning interest in fighting overseas has largely dimmed the competition, Fedor Emelianenko continues to talk of the night in spirited, reverential terms. As well he should: He's a five-time veteran.

    9. Gina Carano (2007-Present)

    Not women's MMA, but Gina Carano. An important distinction.

    Prior to Carano's EliteXC debut in 2007, the idea of hosting female fighters was seen as too absurdly progressive for a sport that still nauseated a good portion of mass media. If they couldn't accept men exchanging blood, observers figured, seeing a woman mounted and pummeled might be cause for a defibrillator.

    With moxie and talent, Gina Carano redefined how women in MMA are perceived.
    "Conviction" -- the daughter of football great Glen Carano -- rejected that sexist attitude not by challenging it, but by ignoring it. She conducted herself as a fighter, displaying sharp skills in the ring and presenting herself as an articulate personality outside of it. Her looks? Absolutely a factor, but curiosity would've quickly given way to disgust if she had nothing to offer as an athlete.

    It's rare for any sports figure to have the weight of an entire genre on one's shoulders. Even Ali, in rewriting boxing's history, was still toiling in an institution that had a past before him and would have a future after him. But try to find even one piece about the females of the sport without a mention of Carano. She didn't just define a division; she was the division.

    8. The Death of Evan Tanner (2008)

    Heath Herring once told me that, while mired in the Texas circuit, he came out for a fight with Evan Tanner in a ring set up over a dirt-encrusted rodeo floor. A year later, Tanner was in Japan and Pancrase. A year after that, he was in the UFC. For a man who started learning the intricacies of submission fighting through videotapes, eventually achieving a winning stretch in the UFC that culminated with a middleweight title in 2005, he was a better fighter than he probably had any right to be.

    As he got older and fell in and out of shape, Tanner took to posting bizarre confessionals online, writing candidly about his issues with alcohol and diluting motivation. Seeing him in a Grizzly Adams beard, pickax slung over his shoulder, you got the sense that he wanted out of his own skin.

    Tanner was found dead in September 2008, victim of extraordinary heat conditions during an ill-planned trek through Southern California desert territory. His sport had never really known tragedy in a face so familiar to them; the morbid nature of his death brought up issues about whether athletes were being as psychologically battered as they were physically -- whether some hike so far away from their sense of self-preservation that they never find their way back home.

    7. Lee Murray (2002-Present)

    If you can't get enough of prizefighting and crime stories, the idea of a talented puncher wrapped up in one of the biggest money heists in history should be enough to completely arrest your attention. And it did: Lee Murray's hop from mid-card attraction to antihero seized headlines from ESPN, Sports Illustrated and a full-length book, "Heist," which documents Murray's (alleged) master plan to walk away with more than $92 million in bank robbery winnings. He fled to Morocco; he was thrown in prison; he walked out of prison; he bought tacky, gold-plated furnishings; he inspired a kind of perverse reverence among observers who had to admire his audacity. Murray is not the sport's only personality, but he's perhaps the only one worth making a movie about. And that's coming soon.

    6. The Irony of 'Rampage' (2008)

    What really breaks your neck in fighting: Saturday, you're somebody. Sunday, you're just another body. Quinton Jackson, a man who had come from neighborhoods more dangerous than cages, learned that lesson the hard way when he lost a five-round decision to heavy underdog Forrest Griffin in a summer 2008 UFC title match.

    After knocking out Chuck Liddell and knocking back Dan Henderson, Jackson looked to be settling in for a lengthy run; Griffin countered those expectations by pulling Jackson into a dogfight, scoring with kicks and frustrating Jackson with sheer persistence. Ten days later, Jackson was careening down a California roadway, evading police and risking the lives of pedestrians in an attempt to cure his ill feelings.

    It nearly left him with another title: the first UFC fighter to suffer death by misadventure. TMZ hasn't missed a step since.

    5. The Death of Sam Vasquez (2007)

    For all the macho boasting about killing, being ready to die and training like the devil was chasing you, athletes can't really take enough punishment from four-ounce gloves to actually expire. (They'll bleed or go to sleep first.) The two who did -- Douglas Dedge in 1998 and a Korean fighter known to stateside press as "Lee" in 2005 -- received little attention beyond some borderline-selfish fretting over what the incidents would "do" to the sport's reputation. And besides, supporters reasoned, Dedge and his other trivia partner were halfway around the world. Who knows what precautions were taken?

    The death of Sam Vasquez was different: It transpired in Houston under the eye of the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation, and at a time when mixed martial arts was finally entering its adolescence. Vasquez was said to have had a blood clot going into the bout; his opponent, Vince Libardi, inadvertently aggravated it, and a comatose Vasquez died in the hospital 42 days later.

    The predicted hysteria over the gore-hound nature of the sport never came; even bullying journalists had to acknowledge one death in North America after 14 years of regular competition was statistically insignificant. That's little consolation to Vasquez's family.

    4. Mark Kerr (2001)

    Sports from basketball to boxing have had the benefit of provocative documentaries made about their personalities: It's impossible to view collegiate athletics -- and the passing smoke of NBA potential -- quite the same after "Hoop Dreams," and it's difficult to fully understand Ali's cultural imprint without a viewing of "When We Were Kings."

    It's far from perfect, but John Hyams' "Smashing Machine," which premiered on HBO in January 2001, was the first sternly critical look of what men do in order to compete at the highest levels of violent spectacle. Mark Kerr, who had been feared in Brazil, the U.S. and Japan for years, trusted Hyams enough to bare his soul for the cameras. He shot in painkillers, collapsed in emotional agony after losses and eventually found himself near-comatose in a hospital bed, sobbing as friends begged him to stop polluting his body with under-the-counter courage. "Machine" was the first real proof this sport would make its share of monsters.

    3. Bob Sapp (2002-2009)

    Both Kimbo Slice and Brock Lesnar proved to have appeal far outside the normal fan circles, bringing in millions in revenue that might otherwise be lost to other outlets. (That UFC 100 pay-per-view just happened to be the cost of a video game -- and yes, some consumers need to make that choice.) And there is danger in omitting them from a list like this one. But in crunching hard numbers, no one -- not Lesnar, not Slice, not even the mighty Jose Canseco -- can compare to the elevation of Bob Sapp in Japan.

    Bob Sapp quickly became one of the most popular MMA fighters of the decade.
    Sapp, who spun a well-worn story about being an NFL benchwarmer who once blacked out his windows out of depression, played to that country's bare instincts: They were absolutely in awe of a 375-pound giant who snarled at cameras, had shoulders like bowling balls, forearms like pins and an affected laugh -- Hah, Hah, HAH!" -- that tickled everyone in diapers to dorms.

    Sapp's celebrity became exaggerated to the point that he couldn't cross the street without congesting traffic. He recorded albums. Hundreds of products bore his image: You could lose your paycheck on a Sapp slot machine, cry into your Sapp pillow, then take a Sapp multivitamin to snap out of it. Accounting for size and cultural context, it is not much of an exaggeration to call him the fifth, sixth and seventh Beatle. At his height, 54 million viewers tuned in to watch Sapp exchange with the top-heavy Akebono in 2003. But that level of audience euphoria had a price: Publicity demands siphoned training time for Sapp, and later encounters with real, hungry professionals frequently ended with Sapp's getting hurt. Today, the sun is setting on that insane appeal. He's down to a few dozen people following him on the street.

    2. The Death of Pride (2007)

    There is something strictly mercenary about the absorption of the competition. Driving a rival company into bankruptcy is fine, but to seize their assets and control their future -- however short -- is a different kind of achievement.

    In a war fought primarily on message boards, Zuffa's UFC product in the first half of the decade was largely found lacking against the talent pool and spectacle of Dream Stage Entertainment's Pride brand. Vegas arenas with 10,000 seats? Pride could pull 20,000 or 30,000. The best fighters in the world? Chuck Liddell was squashed by Quinton Jackson in an attempt at synergy. Observers delighted in painting a picture of the UFC as the hayseed product to Pride's polished chrome.

    Although a good bit of Pride's legacy has been lost to excessive nostalgia -- the promotion had its share of brutally boring, brutally stupid fights -- there was no mistaking it for anything other than a big-budget celebration of martial arts at the highest levels. But when newspapers began beating drums over alleged Yakuza involvement in the promotion, TV contracts evaporated; Zuffa, on solid financial footing thanks to "The Ultimate Fighter," digested it whole.

    No one is likely to miss some of Pride's silliness -- I'm reminded of Wanderlei Silva's fighting a 0-0 Kyokushin karate stylist -- but the demise of the foreign attraction was really the last gasp of MMA as a well-kept secret. The UFC was becoming as ubiquitous as the NFL, and if you didn't like it, you were officially out of options.

    1. Nevada (2001)

    Zuffa's purchase of the UFC in January 2001 removed one of the biggest obstacles to the sport's survival: Bob Meyrowitz.

    The former owner, who had spent years and millions bailing water from the franchise, was out of money and patience. He exited just as MMA had received crucial sanctioning in New Jersey, which had adopted a form of the Unified Rules in a major concession to the sport's safety record. Zuffa would go on to put on good shows, awful shows, great shows, a reality show and an endless stream of strategic moves that put the company on steady ground.

    None of it would've been possible without Nevada's consent on July 23, 2001, to sanction mixed martial arts, a unanimous vote that ended eight years of social and political rejection. Other commissions that had previously reacted with disgust had little recourse: Nevada, the most respected athletic body in the world, had set the standard.

    It's possible that with the support of both iNDemand -- the pay-per-view provider who reinstated the UFC after a years-long blackout the month prior to the approval -- and New Jersey, the UFC could have found its way without Nevada. But without the financial support, status and profits of working in the major Strip hotels and casinos, it would've been difficult (Meyrowitz, after all, couldn't survive without the state). To find a bigger jolt to the fight industry, you'd have to go back to Farnsworth and the invention of television. It was that important.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 1:23 am

    Power doesn't go. But speed does. And Buentello was a fighter who generated his power through his speed.

    Cain wouldn't have been so retarded as to jump across the cage at Buentello. But that's shot wouldn't have knocked down most top HW's. Struve just has a poor chin. Struve was knocked on his ass. Cain never even hit the ground. Kongo hits far harder than Buentello and landed more clean shots. Cain's chin is far better than Struve's

    Should have clarifies UFC HW. Fedor hits harder than any MMA fighter, including Brock and Carwin. But again, it's all speed generated power. Kongo hits harder than Mir though. And certainly far harder than Paul Buentello.

    Santiago isn't nearly as good as Shields at grappling. And he walks into punches. Lawler would KO him within a minute. No question. Even if Santiago did get him down, he still hangs his chin out! The Cannibal KO'd him OFF HIS BACK! Santiago is up their with Arlovski, Thompson and Aoki in the chin department. Horrendous.

    Belcher is crap. He's fought nobody and lost to nobodies. Sexyama isn't a top level fighter. Ninja beat Rampage and got screwed far more than Belcher vs Sexy. And i think Rampage might be ever so slightly better than anyone Belcher has got near.


    All Buentello has is his power, if he couldn't knock down an idiot who jumped across the ring then he should just retire. Struve left himself open to a shot from a guy with decent power. I never said Struve's chin was better than Cain's. I never said Cain had a bad stance which I stick with. Buentello's shot on Struve was cleaner though, like Fedor on Arlvoksi.

    I don't think Kongo does hit harder than Mir, he needed like 20 shots to put away Al-Turk. Mir Koed Wes Sims, a 6'11 guy with one punch. Mir has always had power in his hands, he never showed it though because his standup used to be shit. Dos Santos definitley hits harder and I think Gonzaga might harder than Kongo too. Possibly Yvel. How did we get into an arguement about power? Kongo's Ko/Tko record in not impressive as Ive shown before.

    Carwin and Lesner don't look like they have a lot of speed behind there punches. Fedor definitley does. Still if Lesner and Carwin are two of the harderst hitters in the HW diviison it shows its not all about speed. Its not even about distance, its just caveman clubbing.

    I agree Shields is the better grappler but thats not the point. The guillotine he caught Lawler in was so telgraphed, you talk about how Santiago runs into punches, Lawler walks right into submissions. For a guy who trains with Matt Hughes, I expect his overall grappling to be a little better than that. I would love to watch that fight because I agree, Santiago has a horrendous chin (I think Arvloski still has the P4P worst chin though) and Lawler has one of the worst ground games in MMA. I love watching fights where styles clash, there normally quick and exciting. Werdum vs Kyle was a perfect example.

    Belcher has only recently started becoming a good fighter. He has some good wins on his record, Santiago, Starnes, Kang, Goviea and should have Sexyama. Thats not crap.

    Ninja vs Rampage was typical Japanese bullshit judging, Ye I agree Ninja clearly won but infortunatley that was a one off performance. His next big win after that is Joey Villasenor. Seriously. Belcher would Ko Ninja if the fought now.
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:21 am

    I dont see why Bisping vs Wandy winner shouldnt go in. Wanderlei should be about 12th on Lhw but was removed from the list because he is changing weight...

    Hendo and Wandy gave Rich a 50/50 fight although Hendo got the decision and Wandy didnt. That shows they are of similar level... and are 1-1 with each other. Hendo is number 2 so I think Wandys past record is at least enough to earn him a place over Robbie Lawlor if he wins!

    Bisping has been overlooked because we dont like him. I think a win over Wandy is huge and should but him near 10th if not.

    Khalidov is 20-3 with 1 really big win... He has a good case, Santiago is ranked below him after a loss to him

    Palhares I like but he is 10-2 with probabally Horn as his biggest win, Palhares is a figher I really like but I think he needs a big name win... I still dont think he should get in over a few of the others...

    Okami is Boring and Overrated IMO but a win over a big name would put him at 10th argueabally, Sexyama is in the same boat id say. Really theres..

    The Winner of Bisping vs Wandy
    Okami
    Sexyama
    Khalidov

    I think Just behind them in the running for 10th spot are
    Belcher
    Palhares
    Santiago

    Whoever faces bigger opposition and looks more dominant winning will get in... the next fight for a lot of theyse guys is very improtant.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 7:56 pm

    What about the winner of Rich Franklin vs Cote? Surely if Franklin wins he has more right than Wandy since he beat him recently. There's still a lot of time till Wandy fights Bisping, what about the Reljic if he wins. Maybe Jeremy Horn with a few more win, ok thats pushing it but id love to see him top 10 again. There's a lot going round. Okami is very boring and overated as well but he was top 5 before so dropping him off completely is harsh.

    I say Khalidov is top 10 for now.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:10 pm

    Franklin comes straight back in the MW division as a top 5 fighter IMO.
    But he decided to move up to LHW,or 195 in Rich's case,so he has to be ranked as a LHW.

    If he beats Cote and decides to drop back down to MW,like I say I think he goes straight back into the top 5 in the MW's.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:25 pm

    I wouldn't complain at all if that happened.
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    Post  redmeanie77 Wed Dec 23, 2009 8:40 pm

    At what weight is Rich fighting Cote? 185 surely?
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Wed Dec 23, 2009 9:31 pm

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:What about the winner of Rich Franklin vs Cote? Surely if Franklin wins he has more right than Wandy since he beat him recently. There's still a lot of time till Wandy fights Bisping, what about the Reljic if he wins. Maybe Jeremy Horn with a few more win, ok thats pushing it but id love to see him top 10 again. There's a lot going round. Okami is very boring and overated as well but he was top 5 before so dropping him off completely is harsh.

    I say Khalidov is top 10 for now.

    Khalidov is 11 then, Just for now Lawler is in. If Khalidov wins full stop in his next fight he is in... any ideas when that is?

    Franklin was 8th or 9th at Lhw before the loss to Belfort. If its 195lbs or Lhw he will be moved up heres the current ranking


    4. Rashad Evans
    5. Gegard Mousasi
    6. Antônio Rogério Nogueira
    7. Forrest Griffin
    8. Thiago Silva
    9. Randy Couture
    10. Rich Franklin

    If Rich wins he goes over Couture who has lost Three times back to back IMO, Over T.Silva if he looses and Id say Just below Griffin or Nog, Probabally Below Nog because although Griffin won recently they both lost to Silva, Forrest more enbarassingly and recently.
    And a controversial loss to Hendo is more fogivable than being Sparked by Evans I reckon. Wanderlei Silva was top 10 more recently than Tito and they both won close decisions over them. Rich up to 7th at Lhw with a win.

    If he chooses to go back to 185lbs and says that in an interview then he shouldnt go in at 10. If you leave a devision and come back or start a new devision you get palced fairly, After all Sheilds didnt have to start at 10th at Mw.

    Mw looks like...

    1. Anderson Silva
    2. Nate Marquadt
    3. Dan Henderson
    4. Vitor Belfort
    5. Jake Shields
    6. Damien Maia
    7. Robbie Lawler
    8. Chael Sonnen
    9. Paulo Filho
    19. Ronaldo Souza

    so 5th or 6th at Mw sounds fair to me.

    Cote diserves 10th for beating Rich probabally but he has some competition Franking would technically be beating a 10th ranked guy there guys like Khalidov who had higher ranked wins in their last fight. Cote really hasnt lost since Travis Lutter about 3 years ago so he has a good case. I still cant believe he lost to Leben though. Franklin would be a massive win for him though, I cant see it. Think Rich is a level above him.

    I say Bring on Franklin vs Forrest if he wins! Maby he would be a big enough name for Forrest to fight since Nog wasnt!
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:01 pm

    Shields got to 5th after beating Lawler and Mayhem. I think Franklin can crack the top 10 with a win over Cote.

    The LHW rankings seem fair, right now Lil Nog is a clear 6 so Franklin would go 7.

    Cote was pretty shit when he lost to Leben, and I still don't like that decision. I though Cote edged he dropped Leben more times. He has improved a lot since then and would light Leben up if they fought now.

    Franklin is probably too much for Cote, technichally a better stiker and a better ground game. Rich doesn't have the power to KO Cote, no one does but Cote has the power to KO rich so I think Franklin should take it to the ground where he is a superior grappler.
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:40 pm

    He could alays win with a bodykick! But I think a UD is likley seeing Cotes long layoff. Were would you rank him if he drops to 185 again and wins, I think 5/6 seeing as he was about 5th before we moved him to Lhw. I cant decide if he should go over Shields, I dont know if my hate for Shields is blinding me! Laughing
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 10:52 pm

    For some reason a lot of people really don't like Shields, he is one of the most unpopular fighters out there. I like him, I think he is a talented fighter.

    But in regards to the question, Shields would probably still be ranked higher but to be fair, he is getting KOed by Hendo in there fight so it doesn't matter, eventually Franklin will go above him.

    Franklin does have some beastly kicks, the one on Hammil comes to mind.
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    Post  manschesthair_utd Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:06 pm

    i dunno mate, for a great wrestler Hendo spends alot of time on his back, and against lesser wrestlers than Shields. I can see Sheilds submitting Hendo.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:45 pm

    Well ye, I think people are overlooking Shields completely which would be dumb because he is a great fighter and a very talented grappler. The main reason I see Hendo winning is because of three main aspects:

    1. Size-Hendo is a lot bigger having fought at LHW before and is a very large MW. Shields isn't even that big for WW. Hendo will be a lot stronger and so Shields will find it hard to take him down which brings me to point two...

    2.Wrestling quality- So if Shields is to win, he has to get the fight to the ground. Normally its not a huge problem because he is a great wrestler, but Hendo is an olympic-caliber wrestler. Definitley a better wrestler than Shields and will know how to avoid Shields's subs. If Shields can't get it down he is in trouble which brings me to the final point...

    3.Standup difference- Its a well known fact that Shields has shit standup, Hendo has an Iron chin and he also has brutal KO power. Never been KOed and has 11 KOs/Tkos in 32 fights. Shields has been Koed once and has three TKos in a 29 fight career. Those guys were all cans or just terrible stand-up fighters and I don't think he could even finish the bully from bully beat down with striked. Hendo's standup looked no more impressive than his last fight (well maybe against Wandy) where he dominated Bisping. Shields, was getting his ass kicked by Lawlor for 2 minutes. If the fight is kept standing for too long then a repeat of this:



    is very likely to happen.

    Ofcoarse its not as simple as all that, Shields is a very dangerous fighter, Before Miller he finished his last 8 opponents and he can catch you with a sub from nowhere. Just ask Lawler. At the same time Lawler is one of the worst grapplers in MMA history. Its going to be an intresting fight but Hendo starts as a clear favourite.

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