Greg Jackson: "Jon go and check on Lyoto; get some fans"

Anfields5thKing wrote:

Once Mohawked Pete wrote:

From the mans own mouth - 4.53 in

Have you chosen to ignore the rest where he's clearly joking? Ali's claims to have spoken at a rally with bonfires et al were found to be just claims and nothing more. He spoke at a meeting held at a convention of Klan leaders in a bid to organize a peaceful settlement between the NOI and the KKK.

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:I see what Ben is saying though. Tyson was a rapist who bit people's ear off and threatened to eat children and Ali was most likely a closet racist and they were still loved. It's not just boxing either, people seem to forget people's flaws just because they are exciting to watch. Look at Michael Jackson, he was widely accused of being a pedo and still is one of the most loved men ever.

To me this sounds like Jackson's doing. Jackson told him what to say and I agree with Chesty it is disgusting to pretend to care on some one to make some fans. That's Joseph Stalin's trademark. But blame it one Jackson not Jones. Jackson has got his reputation from training fighters who were always destined to be great. If anything he along with Tri-star made GSP worse by taking out his finishing ability.

Mike Tyson has serious mental issues, everyone knows that. You only need to look at what he overcame in life to see why he ended up the way he did. It's part of the reason people view him the way they do. He also saved the sport of boxing by coming along when he did.

Ali was entertaining, likeable and deserving of the hype. He again overcame a lot of things in life, was the victim of staggering racism and made a huge impact on the world for the stance he took on some of the most important events in history.


Compare the lives and careers of those two men to Jon Jones.

Now consider that his level of arrogance is almost on a par with Ali's at his peak despite not having accomplished a fraction of what Ali did.

I suppose the mental issues Tyson can excuse some of his behavior and yes I do agree he had a tough life. Ali on the other hand wasn't even a closet racist, he was actually a fairly open racist and I believe was part of a racist group. Again I know he had a tough life and suffered from racism but at the same time he was meant to be a role model to the black community. He was no more racially abused than nearly every other black person at the time time. Most of them dealt with it a lot better than he did.

Sure both Tyson's and Ali's lives were much harder and yes they have accomplished a lot more then Jones but at the same time he hasn't done nearly anything as bad as either of them. He is just arrogant, there are plenty of arrogant people in sports. He can be a bit of a dick but come on, just have a look at some of your favorite fighters. Sonnen, Parysian and Diaz for example.

Sonnen is the most entertaining fighter in the sport. I like Karo because he's a Judoka, I'm the first to say he's a dick. You just don't like Diaz because he made GSP cry.

There's nobody as arrogant as Jones who has accomplished so little and hasn't been since Prince Naz. He was also a complete cock.

I think you should have a little look back at what Ali was subjected to. Why was he meant to be a role model? And who says he wasn't? Racist group? He was a member of The Nation of Islam! Again, have a look into them, you might understand a bit better why they acted the way they did. Malcolm X was also a member of the nation of Islam, was he a racist? Ali wasn't a racist. Don't make silly comments.

Sonnen being the most entertaining fighter in the sport is your opinion. It wasn't the long ago you were calling him a boring dryhumper and that a fight between Sonnen vs Fitch would be the most boring fight ever. Liking Karo because his style is complete bias, and same goes for Sonnen being exciting. Just because you like there styles doesn't mean they aren't dicks. I've always liked watching Diaz, never disliked him. I love to watch him fight and I've always said he is one of the most entertaining fighters in the world. But he is a dick never the less.

Nobody as arrogant as Jones who has accomplished so little? Are you forgetting your boy Bisping? Jones has achieved quite a lot for the short time in the sport.

Again what Ali was subjected to was awful but it was no different to most black people of the time and I'm fairly certain the likes of MLK and Mandela had to go through worse. He was a role model because he had so many people look up to him and he wasn't because he made racist statements. The nation of Islam is a Scientology-like religion and they believe the white man was made by some evil scientist. Look it up. It includes the likes of Louis Farrahkan. Malcom X was a racist for a while before he changed his views after he left the nation of Islam and converted to the more prominent form of Islam. He then ended up getting killed by Elijah Muhammed who guess what was a remember of the NOI! He killed Malcom X because he left. You should also know that the NOI actually worked with white supremacist's and Nazi's because of there shared hatred for Jews. I don't know for how long Ali had the views he did but for at least one period in his life he was a racist and I have quotes to prove it.

Liking Karo because of his style is complete bias?? What are you talking about? I've said dozens of times that Karo is a dickhead. I'm the first to say it. Fight between Sonnen and Fitch would be boring. Almost as boring as watching GSP fight or listening to Jon Jones talk. Sonnen is still the most entertaining fighter in MMA. Nobody gives better interviews, nobody sells fights better. Why is Diaz a dick? Because he made GSP cry? Because he forced GSP to stop ducking him?

Michael Bisping, good point, but he doesn't do fake things though, doesn't refer to himself as "a god", doesn't thank god for victories BEFORE the fight.

I really really suggest that you go and do some research on Malcolm X, Ali and the Nation of Islam because that's quite an embarrassing spew you've come up with there.

Malcolm X "left" the NOI because they were throwing him out. He'd been suspended and was no longer authorized to act on their behalf. He left to save face.

"Malcolm X was a racist for a time". Because he was a member of the Nation of Islam? Stupid statement. Even if Malcolm X was a racist - which he wasn't, having your father murdered by a group of white people and your uncle lynched by another group of whites, might drive a person to racism.

You're "fairly certain" that MLK put up with worse? Rubbish. Mandela was in South Africa, different world over there.

Ok fair enough on Karo but my point is you don't give Karo nearly as much shit as you give Jones. Sonnen is a very entertaining fighter but a huge part of that is because he's a dick. The way he ripped into a Brazil, one of the worlds fastest developing countries and economies made him sound like a redneck. GSP ducking Diaz? Oh please, it was just a few days ago you were saying that GSP was the only fighter who was legitimately injured and that Jones and Silva were ducking people. Diaz is a dick because he he misses important events when it benefits him and puts his org in trouble, he threw a shoe at Sanchez, attacked Riggs in the hospital, throwing a bottle at an old man and starting a brawl with Mayhem. Plus all the taunting and swearing towards his opponent. Sounds quite dickish to me.

Jones calls himself a god? He can't be all that religious then, because I'm sure that's a sin according to the bible. Bisping doesn't do fake things but he spits at corner men and actually during the TUF season with Hendo he was always like "one to us" after the fights were picked.

Look up everything I've said, it's true.

Muhamed Ali- "We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

"You're my enemy. My enemy is the white people!"

"You got the white racists who believe in separation such as I believe: One day the black people of America must go to self, clean up self, help self, do for self. I recognize [the white racists]."

"Black and white are disagreeable in peace, they can't get along together… Worked 400 years, 16 hours a day from sun up to sun down, without a payday, that we should now be repaid. Don't give us nuttn and give us or repay us: You got 50 states and we make up 10% of the population then divide up 10% of the land… Now that we're no longer slaves and we can't get along just let me go and live by myself."

Martin Luther on Muhammad Ali:
"When Cassius Clay joined the Black Muslims he became a champion of the racial segregation and that is what we are fighting against."

The Nation Of Islam

"The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man.
Yakub (a scientist from 6600 years ago) is responsible for creating the white race, a "race of devils".
Allah who came in the person of W. D. Fard Muhammad (founder of the Nation of Islam, pronounced Farad), and the 24 Black scientists that selected him to be God. The 24 Black scientists (or 24 Black elders) have the supernatural ability to write the history of the universe.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us of a giant Mother Plane that is made like the universe, spheres within spheres. White people call them UFOs… It took $15 billion in gold at that time to build it. It is made of the toughest steel… Because of its circular nature it can stop and travel in all directions at speeds of thousands of miles per hour."

They are considered racists and a hate group by several antifa groups.

Malcom X

First of all I 100% agree that Malcom X had some what of a good reason to be racist because of all the shit he went through. But for atleast a period of his life he was racist. "if you find a good white man, kill him before he turns bad". He later changed his views and became the man he was known today. This isn't a knock on Malcom X btw, any man would have held his views after what he went through. There are plenty of famous men out there, some considered to be peace keepers who had a dark side.

He was then killed by the NOI.

"Malcolm X's expressed beliefs changed substantially over time. As a spokesman for the Nation of Islam he taught black supremacy and advocated separation of black and white Americans—in contrast to the civil rights movement's emphasis on integration. After breaking with the Nation of Islam in 1964—saying of his association with it, "I was a zombie then ... pointed in a certain direction and told to march""

I'm not actually sure whether or not he left or was kicked out, but the NOI had a grudge towards him either way and ended up ordering his murder.

Black people in South Africa were treated the worse out of anywhere, different world yes. But a harsher one. As far as I'm aware Mandela never had a racist bone in his body.

I've given Karo far more shit in the past than I've ever given Bones. Karo hasn't been relevant in about 4 years.

GSP is not ducking Diaz now, he was before. He was ducking him when he pushed Dana to move him out of the first fight and then talked up Condit who was a much easier fight for GSP than Diaz.

Diaz doesn't show up for press conferences. Who cares? Dana is a the promoter, let him do the press conferences.

The old man, I assume you mean KJ Noons dad, actually threw the bottle of water at Diaz. Not the other way around.

Wouldn't you throw a shoe at Diego Sanchez??

He did get in a fight with Joe Riggs but did he start the fight? Only two people know that.

And Gilbert and Nate start the fight with Mayhem.

Sonnen's remarks towards Brazil are clearly said tongue in cheek. Do you really think a man as educated as Sonnen thinks Brazil doesn't have the internet?

I'll reply to the stuff about Ali in a new post, this one is getting too long.

Anfields5thKing wrote:"Muhamed Ali- "We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

There's nothing racist about that at all. We don't want to live with white people. That's fair enough. He wanted separate communities so that black people could do for themselves and thrive, rather than working for and with white people and being subjected to racism and mis-treatment.

"You're my enemy. My enemy is the white people!"

That's not actually what he said. He said "YOU ARE MY ENEMY" when asked about why he wouldn't go to Vietnam and he was talking about American society.

"You got the white racists who believe in separation such as I believe: One day the black people of America must go to self, clean up self, help self, do for self. I recognize [the white racists]."

What's racist about that? He's calling for segregation so that black people will learn to make successes of themselves!


"Black and white are disagreeable in peace, they can't get along together… Worked 400 years, 16 hours a day from sun up to sun down, without a payday, that we should now be repaid. Don't give us nuttn and give us or repay us: You got 50 states and we make up 10% of the population then divide up 10% of the land… Now that we're no longer slaves and we can't get along just let me go and live by myself."

Again, nothing racist about that at all.

Martin Luther on Muhammad Ali:
"When Cassius Clay joined the Black Muslims he became a champion of the racial segregation and that is what we are fighting against."

Being a champion for racial separation is not being racist.

You've given a bunch of quotes there, none that indicate Ali was even slightly racist, just that he wanted black people to be able to take care of themselves and not have to rely on white people. It's the same as wanting independence. Are the people of Tibet racist because they want to be recognised as an independent country rather than as part of China??

The Nation Of Islam

"The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man.
Yakub (a scientist from 6600 years ago) is responsible for creating the white race, a "race of devils".
Allah who came in the person of W. D. Fard Muhammad (founder of the Nation of Islam, pronounced Farad), and the 24 Black scientists that selected him to be God. The 24 Black scientists (or 24 Black elders) have the supernatural ability to write the history of the universe.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us of a giant Mother Plane that is made like the universe, spheres within spheres. White people call them UFOs… It took $15 billion in gold at that time to build it. It is made of the toughest steel… Because of its circular nature it can stop and travel in all directions at speeds of thousands of miles per hour."

They are considered racists and a hate group by several antifa groups.


So they called white people devils thus they are racist? Look into African tribes. All white people were seen as the Devil in Africa because they had never been seen before and when they arrived nothing but murder, rape and kidnap took place. Hard not to see those people as the devil.

Malcolm X

First of all I 100% agree that Malcom X had some what of a good reason to be racist because of all the shit he went through. But for atleast a period of his life he was racist. "if you find a good white man, kill him before he turns bad". He later changed his views and became the man he was known today. This isn't a knock on Malcom X btw, any man would have held his views after what he went through. There are plenty of famous men out there, some considered to be peace keepers who had a dark side.

The saying "if you find a good white man, kill him" was not Malcolm X. It was Khalid Abdul Muhammed and the full quote was "There are no good crackers, and if you find one, kill him before he changes".

He was then killed by the NOI.

He was killed by members of the NOI. There's no evidence to suggest that the leaders of the NOI had any involvement. Malcolm X had many enemies.

"Malcolm X's expressed beliefs changed substantially over time. As a spokesman for the Nation of Islam he taught black supremacy and advocated separation of black and white Americans—in contrast to the civil rights movement's emphasis on integration. After breaking with the Nation of Islam in 1964—saying of his association with it, "I was a zombie then ... pointed in a certain direction and told to march""

From "The White person's guide to the Nation of Islam" perhaps?

I'm not actually sure whether or not he left or was kicked out, but the NOI had a grudge towards him either way and ended up ordering his murder.

Again, no evidence that they did that. If two republicans murdered a man in America during the Presidency of George W.Bush did that mean he had ordered it?

Black people in South Africa were treated the worse out of anywhere, different world yes. But a harsher one. As far as I'm aware Mandela never had a racist bone in his body.

I would suggest having a look at some of Mandela's actions in the late 1950's and early 1960's.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:I see what Ben is saying though. Tyson was a rapist who bit people's ear off and threatened to eat children and Ali was most likely a closet racist and they were still loved. It's not just boxing either, people seem to forget people's flaws just because they are exciting to watch. Look at Michael Jackson, he was widely accused of being a pedo and still is one of the most loved men ever.

To me this sounds like Jackson's doing. Jackson told him what to say and I agree with Chesty it is disgusting to pretend to care on some one to make some fans. That's Joseph Stalin's trademark. But blame it one Jackson not Jones. Jackson has got his reputation from training fighters who were always destined to be great. If anything he along with Tri-star made GSP worse by taking out his finishing ability.

Mike Tyson has serious mental issues, everyone knows that. You only need to look at what he overcame in life to see why he ended up the way he did. It's part of the reason people view him the way they do. He also saved the sport of boxing by coming along when he did.

Ali was entertaining, likeable and deserving of the hype. He again overcame a lot of things in life, was the victim of staggering racism and made a huge impact on the world for the stance he took on some of the most important events in history.


Compare the lives and careers of those two men to Jon Jones.

Now consider that his level of arrogance is almost on a par with Ali's at his peak despite not having accomplished a fraction of what Ali did.

I suppose the mental issues Tyson can excuse some of his behavior and yes I do agree he had a tough life. Ali on the other hand wasn't even a closet racist, he was actually a fairly open racist and I believe was part of a racist group. Again I know he had a tough life and suffered from racism but at the same time he was meant to be a role model to the black community. He was no more racially abused than nearly every other black person at the time time. Most of them dealt with it a lot better than he did.

Sure both Tyson's and Ali's lives were much harder and yes they have accomplished a lot more then Jones but at the same time he hasn't done nearly anything as bad as either of them. He is just arrogant, there are plenty of arrogant people in sports. He can be a bit of a dick but come on, just have a look at some of your favorite fighters. Sonnen, Parysian and Diaz for example.

Sonnen is the most entertaining fighter in the sport. I like Karo because he's a Judoka, I'm the first to say he's a dick. You just don't like Diaz because he made GSP cry.

There's nobody as arrogant as Jones who has accomplished so little and hasn't been since Prince Naz. He was also a complete cock.

I think you should have a little look back at what Ali was subjected to. Why was he meant to be a role model? And who says he wasn't? Racist group? He was a member of The Nation of Islam! Again, have a look into them, you might understand a bit better why they acted the way they did. Malcolm X was also a member of the nation of Islam, was he a racist? Ali wasn't a racist. Don't make silly comments.

Sonnen being the most entertaining fighter in the sport is your opinion. It wasn't the long ago you were calling him a boring dryhumper and that a fight between Sonnen vs Fitch would be the most boring fight ever. Liking Karo because his style is complete bias, and same goes for Sonnen being exciting. Just because you like there styles doesn't mean they aren't dicks. I've always liked watching Diaz, never disliked him. I love to watch him fight and I've always said he is one of the most entertaining fighters in the world. But he is a dick never the less.

Nobody as arrogant as Jones who has accomplished so little? Are you forgetting your boy Bisping? Jones has achieved quite a lot for the short time in the sport.

Again what Ali was subjected to was awful but it was no different to most black people of the time and I'm fairly certain the likes of MLK and Mandela had to go through worse. He was a role model because he had so many people look up to him and he wasn't because he made racist statements. The nation of Islam is a Scientology-like religion and they believe the white man was made by some evil scientist. Look it up. It includes the likes of Louis Farrahkan. Malcom X was a racist for a while before he changed his views after he left the nation of Islam and converted to the more prominent form of Islam. He then ended up getting killed by Elijah Muhammed who guess what was a remember of the NOI! He killed Malcom X because he left. You should also know that the NOI actually worked with white supremacist's and Nazi's because of there shared hatred for Jews. I don't know for how long Ali had the views he did but for at least one period in his life he was a racist and I have quotes to prove it.

Liking Karo because of his style is complete bias?? What are you talking about? I've said dozens of times that Karo is a dickhead. I'm the first to say it. Fight between Sonnen and Fitch would be boring. Almost as boring as watching GSP fight or listening to Jon Jones talk. Sonnen is still the most entertaining fighter in MMA. Nobody gives better interviews, nobody sells fights better. Why is Diaz a dick? Because he made GSP cry? Because he forced GSP to stop ducking him?

Michael Bisping, good point, but he doesn't do fake things though, doesn't refer to himself as "a god", doesn't thank god for victories BEFORE the fight.

I really really suggest that you go and do some research on Malcolm X, Ali and the Nation of Islam because that's quite an embarrassing spew you've come up with there.

Malcolm X "left" the NOI because they were throwing him out. He'd been suspended and was no longer authorized to act on their behalf. He left to save face.

"Malcolm X was a racist for a time". Because he was a member of the Nation of Islam? Stupid statement. Even if Malcolm X was a racist - which he wasn't, having your father murdered by a group of white people and your uncle lynched by another group of whites, might drive a person to racism.

You're "fairly certain" that MLK put up with worse? Rubbish. Mandela was in South Africa, different world over there.

Ok fair enough on Karo but my point is you don't give Karo nearly as much shit as you give Jones. Sonnen is a very entertaining fighter but a huge part of that is because he's a dick. The way he ripped into a Brazil, one of the worlds fastest developing countries and economies made him sound like a redneck. GSP ducking Diaz? Oh please, it was just a few days ago you were saying that GSP was the only fighter who was legitimately injured and that Jones and Silva were ducking people. Diaz is a dick because he he misses important events when it benefits him and puts his org in trouble, he threw a shoe at Sanchez, attacked Riggs in the hospital, throwing a bottle at an old man and starting a brawl with Mayhem. Plus all the taunting and swearing towards his opponent. Sounds quite dickish to me.

Jones calls himself a god? He can't be all that religious then, because I'm sure that's a sin according to the bible. Bisping doesn't do fake things but he spits at corner men and actually during the TUF season with Hendo he was always like "one to us" after the fights were picked.

Look up everything I've said, it's true.

Muhamed Ali- "We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

"You're my enemy. My enemy is the white people!"

"You got the white racists who believe in separation such as I believe: One day the black people of America must go to self, clean up self, help self, do for self. I recognize [the white racists]."

"Black and white are disagreeable in peace, they can't get along together… Worked 400 years, 16 hours a day from sun up to sun down, without a payday, that we should now be repaid. Don't give us nuttn and give us or repay us: You got 50 states and we make up 10% of the population then divide up 10% of the land… Now that we're no longer slaves and we can't get along just let me go and live by myself."

Martin Luther on Muhammad Ali:
"When Cassius Clay joined the Black Muslims he became a champion of the racial segregation and that is what we are fighting against."

The Nation Of Islam

"The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man.
Yakub (a scientist from 6600 years ago) is responsible for creating the white race, a "race of devils".
Allah who came in the person of W. D. Fard Muhammad (founder of the Nation of Islam, pronounced Farad), and the 24 Black scientists that selected him to be God. The 24 Black scientists (or 24 Black elders) have the supernatural ability to write the history of the universe.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us of a giant Mother Plane that is made like the universe, spheres within spheres. White people call them UFOs… It took $15 billion in gold at that time to build it. It is made of the toughest steel… Because of its circular nature it can stop and travel in all directions at speeds of thousands of miles per hour."

They are considered racists and a hate group by several antifa groups.

Malcom X

First of all I 100% agree that Malcom X had some what of a good reason to be racist because of all the shit he went through. But for atleast a period of his life he was racist. "if you find a good white man, kill him before he turns bad". He later changed his views and became the man he was known today. This isn't a knock on Malcom X btw, any man would have held his views after what he went through. There are plenty of famous men out there, some considered to be peace keepers who had a dark side.

He was then killed by the NOI.

"Malcolm X's expressed beliefs changed substantially over time. As a spokesman for the Nation of Islam he taught black supremacy and advocated separation of black and white Americans—in contrast to the civil rights movement's emphasis on integration. After breaking with the Nation of Islam in 1964—saying of his association with it, "I was a zombie then ... pointed in a certain direction and told to march""

I'm not actually sure whether or not he left or was kicked out, but the NOI had a grudge towards him either way and ended up ordering his murder.

Black people in South Africa were treated the worse out of anywhere, different world yes. But a harsher one. As far as I'm aware Mandela never had a racist bone in his body.

I've given Karo far more shit in the past than I've ever given Bones. Karo hasn't been relevant in about 4 years.

GSP is not ducking Diaz now, he was before. He was ducking him when he pushed Dana to move him out of the first fight and then talked up Condit who was a much easier fight for GSP than Diaz.

Diaz doesn't show up for press conferences. Who cares? Dana is a the promoter, let him do the press conferences.

The old man, I assume you mean KJ Noons dad, actually threw the bottle of water at Diaz. Not the other way around.

Wouldn't you throw a shoe at Diego Sanchez??

He did get in a fight with Joe Riggs but did he start the fight? Only two people know that.

And Gilbert and Nate start the fight with Mayhem.

Sonnen's remarks towards Brazil are clearly said tongue in cheek. Do you really think a man as educated as Sonnen thinks Brazil doesn't have the internet?

I'll reply to the stuff about Ali in a new post, this one is getting too long.

It's not Diaz's fault he doesn't turn up at events he is supposed to. Completely unproffesional, especially for someone who didn't deserve a shot. He wasn't ducking anyone because as soon as Diaz won the fight was back on.

It doesn't matter if he has to go or not, the company asked him to go, he said yes and then didn't show up. Let's not even get into what he pulled at Strikeforce.

Diaz threw the bottle at Noons dad.



Sanchez is annoying but he doesn't deserve a shoe thrown at him. What is he George Bush?

From everything I heard he started the fight with Riggs, or atleast started the physical confrontation.

Diaz had as much part to play in it as anyone. Melendez and Nate were just pushing and throwing hats. Diaz started throwing punches.

Tongue in cheek or not, it's in bad taste IMO. Not so much the stuff about the internet but things like "he's not from a bowing culture, in Brazil if you bow they hit you over your head and steal your wallet." Hilarious yes but it was offensive to a lot of Brazilians.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:"Muhamed Ali- "We who follow the teachings of Elijah Muhammad don't want to be forced to integrate. Integration is wrong. We don't want to live with the white man; that's all."

There's nothing racist about that at all. We don't want to live with white people. That's fair enough. He wanted separate communities so that black people could do for themselves and thrive, rather than working for and with white people and being subjected to racism and mis-treatment.

"You're my enemy. My enemy is the white people!"

That's not actually what he said. He said "YOU ARE MY ENEMY" when asked about why he wouldn't go to Vietnam and he was talking about American society.

"You got the white racists who believe in separation such as I believe: One day the black people of America must go to self, clean up self, help self, do for self. I recognize [the white racists]."

What's racist about that? He's calling for segregation so that black people will learn to make successes of themselves!


"Black and white are disagreeable in peace, they can't get along together… Worked 400 years, 16 hours a day from sun up to sun down, without a payday, that we should now be repaid. Don't give us nuttn and give us or repay us: You got 50 states and we make up 10% of the population then divide up 10% of the land… Now that we're no longer slaves and we can't get along just let me go and live by myself."

Again, nothing racist about that at all.

Martin Luther on Muhammad Ali:
"When Cassius Clay joined the Black Muslims he became a champion of the racial segregation and that is what we are fighting against."

Being a champion for racial separation is not being racist.

You've given a bunch of quotes there, none that indicate Ali was even slightly racist, just that he wanted black people to be able to take care of themselves and not have to rely on white people. It's the same as wanting independence. Are the people of Tibet racist because they want to be recognised as an independent country rather than as part of China??

The Nation Of Islam

"The original black race of man is superior, especially to the white man.
Yakub (a scientist from 6600 years ago) is responsible for creating the white race, a "race of devils".
Allah who came in the person of W. D. Fard Muhammad (founder of the Nation of Islam, pronounced Farad), and the 24 Black scientists that selected him to be God. The 24 Black scientists (or 24 Black elders) have the supernatural ability to write the history of the universe.
The Honorable Elijah Muhammad told us of a giant Mother Plane that is made like the universe, spheres within spheres. White people call them UFOs… It took $15 billion in gold at that time to build it. It is made of the toughest steel… Because of its circular nature it can stop and travel in all directions at speeds of thousands of miles per hour."

They are considered racists and a hate group by several antifa groups.


So they called white people devils thus they are racist? Look into African tribes. All white people were seen as the Devil in Africa because they had never been seen before and when they arrived nothing but murder, rape and kidnap took place. Hard not to see those people as the devil.

Malcolm X

First of all I 100% agree that Malcom X had some what of a good reason to be racist because of all the shit he went through. But for atleast a period of his life he was racist. "if you find a good white man, kill him before he turns bad". He later changed his views and became the man he was known today. This isn't a knock on Malcom X btw, any man would have held his views after what he went through. There are plenty of famous men out there, some considered to be peace keepers who had a dark side.

The saying "if you find a good white man, kill him" was not Malcolm X. It was Khalid Abdul Muhammed and the full quote was "There are no good crackers, and if you find one, kill him before he changes".

He was then killed by the NOI.

He was killed by members of the NOI. There's no evidence to suggest that the leaders of the NOI had any involvement. Malcolm X had many enemies.

"Malcolm X's expressed beliefs changed substantially over time. As a spokesman for the Nation of Islam he taught black supremacy and advocated separation of black and white Americans—in contrast to the civil rights movement's emphasis on integration. After breaking with the Nation of Islam in 1964—saying of his association with it, "I was a zombie then ... pointed in a certain direction and told to march""

From "The White person's guide to the Nation of Islam" perhaps?

I'm not actually sure whether or not he left or was kicked out, but the NOI had a grudge towards him either way and ended up ordering his murder.

Again, no evidence that they did that. If two republicans murdered a man in America during the Presidency of George W.Bush did that mean he had ordered it?

Black people in South Africa were treated the worse out of anywhere, different world yes. But a harsher one. As far as I'm aware Mandela never had a racist bone in his body.

I would suggest having a look at some of Mandela's actions in the late 1950's and early 1960's.

This has gone completely off topic.

Let me sum it up. In My opinion separation and segregation is racist. That stops someone entering a country because of the colour of there skin. It was also a terrible message for the black people of the time as MLK's quote proves. There was a period where IMO Ali definitely had racist views although I'm fairly certain he's dropped these views as well.

The NOI have held anti-white and anti-Jewish views as well, just look at Louis Farrahkan. They are considered racists by many antifa groups within the US.

Three members of the NOI were charged with killing Malcom X. His family all suspected the NOI leadership of ordering it and his kids tried to kill Farrahkan.

There is a difference between African tribes and the NOI. The NOI aren't starving people in the middle of nowhere without the slightest bit of technology around them. I don't blame those people, just like every other group of people in the world they were behind the times. The NOI were living in the US among white people. They don't have the same excuse.

Also I was wrong on the quote, it was Khalid Abdul Muhammed not Malcom. Sorry about that.

Ginginho wrote:I'm enjoying this history lesson....

Once Mohawked Pete wrote:

Ginginho wrote:I'm enjoying this history lesson....

I would like to thank Anfield and Ben, cos this whole debate got me checking out stuff that I thought I knew a fair bit aout. Turns out, that there was a fair bit of stuff, I was either unaware of, or was incorrect about......Oh, and it also got me watching the channel 4 'Thriller in Manilla' documentary again.

rudeboyben84 wrote:

Once Mohawked Pete wrote:

Ginginho wrote:I'm enjoying this history lesson....

I would like to thank Anfield and Ben, cos this whole debate got me checking out stuff that I thought I knew a fair bit aout. Turns out, that there was a fair bit of stuff, I was either unaware of, or was incorrect about......Oh, and it also got me watching the channel 4 'Thriller in Manilla' documentary again.

Ali vs Frazier III is probabally the only fight better than The 1st Gatti vs Ward fight for me.

Did you see much of Ali vs Frazier II in the documentary, Its been a while since Ive seen it. Ali should have been called for Holding and hitting, No one would get away with it now days.

Did you see the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McCleland documentary by any chance last night?

Once Mohawked Pete wrote:

rudeboyben84 wrote:

Once Mohawked Pete wrote:

Ginginho wrote:I'm enjoying this history lesson....

I would like to thank Anfield and Ben, cos this whole debate got me checking out stuff that I thought I knew a fair bit aout. Turns out, that there was a fair bit of stuff, I was either unaware of, or was incorrect about......Oh, and it also got me watching the channel 4 'Thriller in Manilla' documentary again.

Ali vs Frazier III is probabally the only fight better than The 1st Gatti vs Ward fight for me.

Did you see much of Ali vs Frazier II in the documentary, Its been a while since Ive seen it. Ali should have been called for Holding and hitting, No one would get away with it now days.

Did you see the Nigel Benn vs Gerald McCleland documentary by any chance last night?

There was hardly any footage from the 2nd fight, a big chunk of the 1st, and obviously loads from the 3rd......Haven't seen the Benn/McCleland doc yet, I'll hunt it out, although have a fair bit of mixed emotions......Remember feeling really bad, about the fact that I won money from that fight.