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    104: BIGGEST FIX IN UFC HISTORY!!

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    Post  Shanemc Mon Oct 26, 2009 2:53 am

    im in LA at the moment and watched the fight in a bar and americans i saw are idiots who dont no anything about the sport jesus there like you see in movies ok sorry back to the point shogun was robbed in the worst decision i ever saw i gave the first either a draw or maybe to machida and the rest to shogun he outclassed him at times imo really pissed me off as im a big shogun fan and i see him as champ i dont care what the belt says and thats my opinion

    ps manchestair will you post your avatar pic and go on the liverpool!
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    Post  manschesthair_utd Mon Oct 26, 2009 4:19 pm

    Shanemc wrote:im in LA at the moment and watched the fight in a bar and americans i saw are idiots who dont no anything about the sport jesus there like you see in movies ok sorry back to the point shogun was robbed in the worst decision i ever saw i gave the first either a draw or maybe to machida and the rest to shogun he outclassed him at times imo really pissed me off as im a big shogun fan and i see him as champ i dont care what the belt says and thats my opinion

    ps manchestair will you post your avatar pic and go on the liverpool!

    was going to but then changed my mind for no reason.

    edit: kidding! here is the one i made, its looks pretty terrible when it is big ( i am a total noob at this )

    104: BIGGEST FIX IN UFC HISTORY!! - Page 2 Shogun10

    i only decided to put a belt on him when i saw this cool one someone else did.

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    Last edited by manschesthair_utd on Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post  Helm Mon Oct 26, 2009 5:04 pm

    I agree the result was a shambles, personally I didn't see any arrogance in Machida's comments afterwards though TBH he seemed almost as despondent as if he'd lost the fight. You know as a fighter when you've been beaten and I think he knew that
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:25 pm

    Have you all stopped crying about this yet or do i need to give you a few more days??
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    Post  pinsman Wed Oct 28, 2009 6:50 pm

    Have to say i'm happy again now knowing that Shogun will have another chance, but don't think he'll get the chances he did in the next fight... were you suprized with Shogun, as I seem to remember you saying Machida would win easily??
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:04 pm

    Yeah very surprised. He was a different fighter to anything he's ever been before. He learned to throw leg kicks properly as well. It clearly surprised Machida as well. But like any great champion he was able to pull out the win. He'll be better prepared the next time and Shogun will have to fight the same way or risk walking right into Machida's left hand which managed to hurt him a few times in this fight.
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    Post  pinsman Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:12 pm

    I think Shogun may take a slightly different approuch, he seemed to look very confident in the latter rounds and maybe if he gets there in the next fight he'll go for the KO, as i don't think it was ever on his mind in the first fight, he was always going to try and win it with points.

    I think Machida on the other hand will go in there respecting Shogun alot more, and look more at his stance as he was getting kicked left right and centre Saturday.... my only question is do you think Machida could finish Shogun??
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    Post  redmeanie77 Wed Oct 28, 2009 7:36 pm

    One thing that could be a worry for Machida , is that because of all the anger and feeling that Rua won the fight and that he was robbed etc.....

    In the rematch if it goes to a decsion then judges may be inclined to give it to Rua if it is at all a close fight which i think it will be.

    We already know judges are intellectualy weak, so they very well could be emotionally and mentally weak enough to not call the fight like how they see it, and not have the first fight circling in the back of their heads.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:16 pm

    The judges think works in Machida's favour. Shogun is going to have it in his mind that he'll have to be more aggressive and go for the win, which means he'll go charging forward and walk straight into counters. You can't fight both ways. If Shogun is cagey and tries to leg kicks his way to the gold, Machida will have figured it out. If Shogun goes back to the Shogun of Pride he risks getting picked apart and knocked out.

    For me, there's more chance of Machida finishing Shogun than of Shogun finishing Machida.
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    Post  Additional Generic Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:19 pm

    I think Shogun won the fight but you can definitely make a case for Machida.

    Joe Rogan bias aside it was a lot closer than people are saying.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:41 pm

    I think the same, but the more i watch the fight, 5 times now and counting, the more i see why it went to Machida.

    Machida won rounds 1 and 3. Shogun took the 4th and 5th. Although only the 1st and 5th are really clear cut. The second round is the swing round. If you read what Cecil People's had to say and watch the fight without Joe Rogan's retarded commentary, it's easy to see why the fight went to Machida.
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    104: BIGGEST FIX IN UFC HISTORY!! - Page 2 Empty By Franklin McNeil

    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:52 pm

    Maybe they got it right. Maybe not.

    Since scoring the UFC light heavyweight title fight Saturday night in favor of defending champion Lyoto Machida over Mauricio Rua, judges Nelson "Doc" Hamilton, Marcos Rosales and Cecil Peoples have been roundly criticized.

    Their knowledge of mixed martial arts and their integrity have come under scrutiny. This is unfortunate. It's one thing to disagree with the officiating crew's scores, another to question their professionalism.

    Hamilton, Rosales and Peoples are among the most experienced judges in mixed martial arts. Toss in referee Herb Dean, and the California State Athletic Commission could not have put together a more qualified team to handle Machida-Rua at the Staples Center in Los Angeles.

    Each judge has scored hundreds of MMA bouts, professional and amateur. They have met every requirement set forth by this country's most influential athletic commissions, and each attends judging seminars regularly. Hamilton, Rosales and Peoples are more than qualified to score fights.

    On Saturday night, they had a very difficult one to score. Machida-Rua was a strategic, carefully contested bout. Several rounds could have gone either way.

    When the fight was over, all three judges scored it 48-47 for Machida (ESPN.com had Rua winning 48-47). The judges, however, weren't totally in sync. They didn't agree on how the champ won.

    Peoples and Rosales gave the first three rounds to Machida. However, Hamilton had the champ taking the middle rounds. Round 5 was the only one in which all three judges favored Rua.

    While most observers disagreed with the judges' scorecards, they also didn't see eye-to-eye on which rounds to give Rua.

    "I noticed that a lot of people on the Internet gave the first, second and third rounds to Machida," Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer told ESPN.com. "Almost everybody gave the fourth and fifth rounds to Rua.

    "There were also a lot of people who gave the first, second and third rounds to Rua. You could have went 50-45 for Rua or 48-47 for Machida and not have been wrong.

    "Some fans are under the impression that if two judges scored it the same, then the third judge must be wrong. Not necessarily. It depends on the angles from which the judges saw the fight."

    Where a judge is seated at a particular time during the action must be taken into account. Judges have the best seats in the house, but they don't always have a clear line of vision.

    Depending on your perspective -- literally and figuratively -- either Lyoto Machida or Mauricio Rua could have won Saturday's fight.
    "I'm not going to say every judge's score is perfect," Kizer said. "That is definitely not the case.

    "Judges can make mistakes or overemphasize a particular aspect of a round compared to other rounds, but it is so important where you sit -- not just the different sides of the Octagon, but are you watching it on TV? Are you six rows back from the cage? Are you in the best seat in the house, the judge's chair?

    "Sometimes a judge's chair might be on the opposite side of the Octagon and members of press row will have a better view of the action."

    In this fight, Hamilton is the judge who saw things a little different from his colleagues. Hamilton scored the first and fifth rounds for Rua.

    Scoring the rounds differently doesn't mean Hamilton got it wrong. He simply viewed the fight from another vantage point.

    One thing Hamilton and the other judges who scored Machida-Rua can't be accused of is not paying attention. These highly skilled judges never take their eyes off the action, and they let nothing outside the cage distract them.

    They possess something else most fans do not: a thorough knowledge of the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts. Peoples, Rosales and Hamilton know the rules inside-out.

    "I'm not talking about this specific fight, I'm talking in generality: The judge doesn't care what the crowd is saying, he or she isn't listening to what the commentator is saying," New Jersey State Athletic Control Board attorney Nick Lembo told ESPN.com. "You have three judges sitting there who are totally ignoring the crowd, not listening to the broadcast, not having a beer. How many of these fans were drinking a beer, sitting there with friends looking at other things?

    "The judges are trained to zone in, block everything out and just score that 5-minute round. That makes a difference sometimes.

    "If you look under the rules -- and I don't think a lot of people have read the Unified Rules of Mixed Martial Arts -- it gives you a pretty good guide for how to score a fight."

    There is no evidence to suggest that the judges who scored Machida-Rua did not focus on or ignored the Unified Rules. By all accounts, they did their job.


    Machida-Rua II
    The dust had hardly settled from Lyoto Machida's win over Mauricio Rua when the fighters agreed to a rematch.

    This doesn't mean that an equally qualified crew would have scored Machida-Rua similarly. If Machida-Rua II plays out the way it did Saturday night, the scoring might very well favor the challenger.

    Machida-Rua II will have a different element if held in Las Vegas. Kizer plans to use new officials.

    "I don't know where the rematch will be, but I can tell you if it is [in Nevada] … we will have three different judges," Kizer said. "Maybe a new referee as well.

    "Not because they got it wrong or got it right, but because I don't want anyone to think this is a sixth round. No. It's a brand-new fight. The first fight will be irrelevant."

    Franklin McNeil is an analyst on ESPN.com's "MMA Live."
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:55 pm

    I won't be as ridiculous as Chesty and trawl the net trying to back up a losing argument with the snap judgements made by fighters immediately after the fight having been subjected to Joe Rogans "shogun is my homie" commentary style. But he did say that only Shogun and Anderson Silva had won the fight.

    Strikeforce lightweight Josh Thomson: "Machida won. You have to beat the champ to be the champ.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:57 pm

    Oh, and even Shogun thought he'd lost the first two rounds and he was in the fight!
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    Post  manschesthair_utd Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:07 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:Oh, and even Shogun thought he'd lost the first two rounds and he was in the fight!

    http://www.tatame.com/2009/10/26/Shogun-on-UFC-104--I-won-four-rounds

    dunno where you got that from, i think the 1st 4th and 5th were clearly Shoguns also i think he got the second aswell.

    and you said "like a true champion Machida pulled it out" Machida didnt pull anything out, he got soundly beaten up on saturday and he must have prayed a hell of a lot because he got a miracle decision, he didnt pull anything out.
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    Post  pinsman Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:01 pm

    Have to agree with Manschesthair... Machida did hardly anything with aggression behind it possibly two little flurrys of punches, Shogun smashed him with the legs kicks, and after reading what peoples has said in an interview he clearly isn't as great a judge as you've made him out to be Anfield.

    Shogun vs Machida II won't be the same fight as Lyoto will come back fighting differently and will prob win, the damage has already been done and Shogun was cheated out of the title. But guess thats the way the cookie crumbles ha ha!

    I personally could pick a round in the fight where Machida dominated and deserved the round...
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    Post  skidd1 Thu Oct 29, 2009 12:49 am

    Is this the site Anfield predicted the points decision for Machido on?
    Cant have been 606 cos that pirhana....sorted things there.."jog on little girl"...owned !!
    Decent site thanks for the heads up
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Oct 29, 2009 2:17 am

    manschesthair_utd wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:Oh, and even Shogun thought he'd lost the first two rounds and he was in the fight!

    http://www.tatame.com/2009/10/26/Shogun-on-UFC-104--I-won-four-rounds

    dunno where you got that from, i think the 1st 4th and 5th were clearly Shoguns also i think he got the second aswell.

    and you said "like a true champion Machida pulled it out" Machida didnt pull anything out, he got soundly beaten up on saturday and he must have prayed a hell of a lot because he got a miracle decision, he didnt pull anything out.

    Shogun said in the press conference he thought he'd won the last 3 rounds after dropping the first two didn't he?

    Machida won the fight, he wasn't soundly beaten. He won. A clear UD that was closer to 49-46 Machida if the judges had been scoring it the same.

    Or are you like the muppet on 606 that claims he knows how to score a fight better than the professional judges.


    I hope the rematch is soon, just so Machida can knock him out and put an end to this nonsense.

    Shogun lost. deal with it.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:33 am

    I've just watched it four times because i'm extremely bored and have nothing else to do at the moment.

    So, first i watched it without Rogan, and marked down every single strike Machida landed. And then watched it with Rogan's commentary and he remarks on less than a quarter of them. Then i turned the sound of and counted Shogun's strikes, watched it with Rogan and he comments on 4/5 of them. Not only that, he uses constant power words like "devastating", "powerful" etc. In every exchange that Machida outstruck Shogun, he nearly came on Goldberg about Shogun's strikes, hardly mentioned Machida's. At the end of round three, Machida threw 14 strikes and landed cleanly with 9 of them including 2 kicks. Shogun threw 5 punches, landed with only one which caught Machida on the back of the head, and all Rogan could talk about was the "great right hand by Shogun". The majority of times Shogun landed a strike, he ate a straight left in return. But never once was there mention of these. Machida had Shogun hurt twice in the fight and there was no mention made. Machida caught Shogun 5 or 6 times with knees that knocked the wind out of him and they barely got a mention, but Shogun lands some knees to the leg in the clinch and they are "vicious". There were times when both connected with kicks simultaneously, and only Shogun's got a mention. Goldberg spends the whole fight saying "has Machida lost some rounds for the first time in his career", "you could make the argument that Shogun won the first two rounds", "this is the shogun we hoped we'd see when he came from pride". First of all, you're a commentator. You're supposed to be impartial you fucking numpty. Secondly. It was a completely different Shogun to the one we saw in Pride. At least know what you're talking about.

    Machida won rounds one and three and the more i watched it the more i give him round two as well.

    The more i watch it the more i think Machida won the fight. Yes, he walked out with sore legs and ribs but Shogun's ribs will be hurting too, and whilst Machida had only one small cut on his lip, Shogun has a black left eye, a fat lip and a big bruise on his right temple.

    There's an argument to score rounds 2-4 to either of them. But this insistence that Shogun dominated the fight and battered Machida is pure bullshit. Neither man came out on top but Machida landed the cleaner strikes and came closer to trying to finish the fight at the end of round 3. Machida was never once in any danger in the fight.

    Also, saying Machida "knew he'd lost" at the end of the fight is complete shit. That's a look of pain on his face. Machida's corner were telling him all along that he was winning. So they weren't all that surprised. Machida was clearly a bit nervous because it had gone to the score cards and for the first time in his career he hadn't just had a won side ass-kicking. Watch any fight like that, the champion will always look more nervous before the announcement because he has more to lose.

    Rogan and Goldberg should be ashamed of themselves for their ridiculously biased commentary. Rogan is one of the reasons the UFC is not on a major network, and not likely to get on one any time soon. The man is a muppet. And the UFC did themselves no favours in their little highlight reel between the end of the fight and the announcement of the score. To his credit Goldberg does say straight away after the result "to beat the champion and become the champion you must clearly defeat the champion". He knew Shogun hadn't done enough.


    Last edited by Anfields5thKing on Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:47 am; edited 5 times in total
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Oct 29, 2009 4:38 am

    Also worth noting, that the more time that passes, the more people are turning around and saying, "well actually, if you watch the fight and ignore the commentary, you can see why Machida won the fight". McNeill is one of those who initially said Shogun won and has since said he can see how Machida won. That might be too big a step for some of the small minded members on this site though.


    Just seen that when the two muppets are summing up the event, Rogan says "the whole audience thought Shogun won". Clearly a lie as there was a good portion, probably 35% of the crowd who cheered the result.
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    Post  SBGaz Thu Oct 29, 2009 3:06 pm

    I think Shogun won the fight convincingly enough to 'beat the champion' and feel I was robbed also as I had an accumulator on at Paddy Power for Shogun , Velasquez, Rumble and Joe Daddy to win.

    As uz can guess I was pretty gutted wi the decision.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:09 pm

    I think it is being blown out of proportion.

    I think Shogun won the fight but 3 rounds to 2 not 4-1 or 5-0. It certainly isn't one of the worst ever, a terrible decision is like Bisping-Hammil. Hamill won every round yet the judges gave it to Bisping-Now thats a terrible decision.

    At the end of the day Shogun didn't dominate Machida, it wasn't like GSP-Alves was it where there was one guy who blew the other guy away.

    Shogun did very well in this fight, he shocked Machida with a very unusual style that Anfield has been talking about. Im a little dissapointed in Machida for not adapting to it during the fight, he was lost. Im intrested to see how he does in the rematch. I felt really bad for him, bad decisions can ruin careers and he should be the LHW champion now but Dana isn't kidding when he says don't leave it in the hands of the judges.

    At the end of the day you have Cecil peoples as one of the judges, you can never be too sure

    So Shogun has been unfairly setback, now we get to see the kind of athlete he is- will he lie down and feel sorry for himself or will he go back to square one and start again. He has shown he can beat Machida. It remains to be seen if he can complete the job.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Oct 29, 2009 6:49 pm

    Let's be fair to Cecil Peoples now, the man has judged in excess of 1000 fights and i doubt if people can find more than 10 fights that he's been wrong on. That's less than 1%.

    Machida struggled to get Shogun's timing. He'll get it next time.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:27 pm

    Look at this episodes TUF episode and you will see why Peoples is the worlds shittiest judge. (sorry for the disgraceful match you have to watch first)

    Here is Peoples making some good points and then turning to a complete dick.

    http://www.411mania.com/MMA/news/120455/Cecil-Peoples-Comments-on-Shogun-Machida-Controversy..htm

    And here is a guy who agrees with you

    http://www.411mania.com/MMA/columns/120450

    All fair points, this was a close fight. What suprises me more than anything is how much respect Shogun is getting for a fight where he didn't look all that impressive, certainly not dominant. I like Joe Rogan but he was a nightmare, i have no idea why he was saying that shit. Goldberg just blindly follows him so he was useless as well, terrible commentry.

    Looking at the fight again, I still think Shogun won but I could easily see a Machida win. Its not so unbeleivable but niether fighter impresses me and the fight wasn't that fun to watch either. I do want to watch the rematch so I can stop listening to this shit.
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Thu Oct 29, 2009 7:33 pm

    Also I heard Peoples used to be a boxing judge before (not sure how much truth is in it) and well he was shit there as well. Also how can we forget that time he was a refferee? You know that time he jumped on Pete Sell and Quaryy and dry-humped the shit out of them.

    Still not as bad as Mazzaghati-I wish Lesner did punch his moustache off.

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