UFC 125 Review

payneNglory1 wrote:
takedown 2pt
reversal 1 pt
Stuffing a takedown 1pt
keeping your opponent down from takedown for 10 + secs extra point
submission attempt 1 pt
submission escape 1pt
clean strike 1pt
clean power strike 2pts

Keeping your opponent down should not be rewarded. Some BJJ fighters want to be on the bottom, for example.

I think in nearly every grappling art,you have to hold your opponent in position for a certain amount of time to earn the points.

Jui Jitsu - Multiple Points – Will be awarded for achieving any legitimate hold down position during the allotted ground time.
Points for hold downs are: (Black Belts) 2 points for every 10 seconds up to the 30 second time limit
(Kyu belts and Juniors). One point for every 5 seconds up to the 15 second time limit.

BJJ - To gain points for a position, the competitor must show clear control for 3 seconds (including takedowns and throws).

Sambo - Hold your opponent down with most of his back in contact with the mat and you lying on top of him with your chest, side, or back in contact with his chest. This move scores two points if it's held for 10 seconds and four points for 20 seconds. You can only earn points for this move once in the match.

Doesn't matter, MMA is completely different. You said to Anfield that it's not purely Boxing so it shouldn't be scored as such, well it's the same case with the grappling.

I read an article somewhere were a guy was suggesting that a submission should not be fight ending. He suggested that if a fight tapped out in a round the round would be an automatic 10-8 to his opponent. If he tapped out twice in a round or three times in a fight he would then lose the fight. If was off the back of the Sonnen-Silva finish. Let's all be honest, the winner of the "fight" was Anderson Silva. But Sonnen kicked his ass for 23 minutes. The guy's claim was that the fight should have restarted with them standing. The round was an automatic 10-8 to Silva and Silva would then have had the remaining time to try and sub him again or improve the score to a 10-7(which still wouldn't have been enough).

I'm not really sure what i feel on this. I agree that a submission isn't as decisive a finish as a KO but there are guys like Maia who's whole life is submissions.

Payne, in your points system, how many points for a knock down? I would suggest 4 if a takedown and clear power shot are 2. The problem though, would be having all 3 judges agree on what mandates a clear shot. Look at olympic boxing where there are frequent robberies due to the angles the judges watch the fight from.

a submission is as decisive finish as a KO.

Like i said my example was full of holes,and the points I gave where just examples,as it would take loads of studying to award each move with an apropriate value and this isn't something I have exactly put a ton of thought into,so I'm in no way saying this is how it should be,it's just a broad idea because I just think an accumilation of points earned,like in most martial arts,would make a better way of judging a MMA fight.
I just don't think the 10 point system works for MMA,I do think bringing the half point system in would go along way in improving things though,but my example as flawed as my scoring of it may be,allows you to score points for both grappling and stand up,it also gets rid of the bullshit that no one really understands like Octagon controll,it sets out exactly what scores pts and how many points each move is worth.

I don't really get your last comment,about what I said about boxing was all about Axe,i gave scoring examples for striking and grappling.(you hitting the sauce abit hard again mate ? )

You made a claim that some BJJ guys want to be in that position so that shouldn't be a scoring move,so I just pointed out that in all grappling arts you score points for controlling your opponent for a set length of time,like I set out in my scoring,so if striking rules are implemented to score points in my example,then so should some grappling ones,not just grappling ones.
Where as with the Edgar fight for example,people are claimimg it should of been a 10-7,6 because Edgar got dropped by strikes four times,that's near enough purely boxing scoring,i do think dropping someone should score highly,but there are so many more aspects of this sport that should score pts also.

I don't agree that alot of BJJ fighters want to be on there backs anyway,all of them are far more effective from top position,as there are so many more moves avaliable to them from there,(plus it's harder to take damage and get pounded out from top ) yes some guys are very effective from bottom,but even in the sport they have trained in,they lost points for getting themselves in that position,so why would they purposely put themselves there,I mean you name me one BJJ fighter that has stayed on his back in a MMA fight without getting the sub,that has won the fight.(how did it work out for diaz in his last fight)

My main point of scoring a point when you keep an opponent down for a length of time anyway,would be to make a takedown,where the opponent pops straight back up and recieves no damage or serious threat from it,to be not as valuable as a takedown where you get controll over your opponent,because as much as some disagree with it,many a fighter has won rds by doing this in the scoring we have today.

I think since it's mixed martial arts,then you should be able to score points from all the mixed aspects of the sport,be it striking,grappling,escapes etc but I think a sub or a KO,TKO should always stay as a fight ender.

I think the biggest flaw with Olympic boxing scoring is the fact that points only score if 3 of the 5 judges press there buttons at the same time,(plus Olympic politics and down right fucking cheating from home officials)judges should just score there own cards and hand them in inbetween each rd and tallied up at the end of the fight.

as i said before it could become more complicated and judges would need alot of training and commentaters would need to do there part in edjucating the audience to them,but you look at loads of other martial arts when it comes to scoring,the scoring rules in alot of them look really complicated when you first sit down and look at them but after a while they soon become clear and easy enough for anyone to score the rds themselves,and to be fair in a MMA rd it's not as if it's a crazy amount of things to score,if a fighter lands 20 odd scoring strikes,a couple of takedowns,takedown attempts,stuffs a few and has had a few sub attempts in one rd,then he's had a phenomanal rd and i don't think all that is asking to much to score,it would still come down to 3 judges decisions which I'm sure will all vary slightly, but i think with set scoring for things,you would get a far more consistant set of decisions and the fight would be judged on a whole and not rd by rd,you'd still have rds obviously but they would be purley for the fighters to take a rest and get instructions from their corners.

takedowns should score if after you try and advance the position. do a brock lesnar to takedown and just hold them there then that shouldnt score.

manschesthair_utd wrote:a submission is as decisive finish as a KO.

No, it's not.

A KO leaves a fighter unable to continue. 90% of submissions do not.

Anfields5thKing wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:a submission is as decisive finish as a KO.

No, it's not.

A KO leaves a fighter unable to continue. 90% of submissions do not.

well actually making someone actively admit defeat is very decisive...and if they don't concede it does leave them unable to continue.

whereas alot of TKOs are judgement calls.

and what happens if someone taps to strikes? to they lose a 10-8 round and get to start over?

payneNglory1 wrote:

I mean you name me one BJJ fighter that has stayed on his back in a MMA fight without getting the sub,that has won the fight.

Big Nog vs Ricco.




I do get what your saying and i wasn't taking pops at it, i was just highlighting some possible faults. There really is no ideal way of scoring MMA because there literally is thousands of variables in a fight. There's no question though the current system is just terrible.

Anfields5thKing wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:a submission is as decisive finish as a KO.

No, it's not.

A KO leaves a fighter unable to continue. 90% of submissions do not.

A lot of time that is only because they tap. Subs can do a lot of damage.

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

payneNglory1 wrote:

I mean you name me one BJJ fighter that has stayed on his back in a MMA fight without getting the sub,that has won the fight.

Big Nog vs Ricco.




I do get what your saying and i wasn't taking pops at it, i was just highlighting some possible faults. There really is no ideal way of scoring MMA because there literally is thousands of variables in a fight. There's no question though the current system is just terrible.

Good answer on the Nog - Ricco I mean it was a complete robbery by those dodgy pride judges but you found one all the same.

I don't buy into that the scoring can't be sorted out,it's more a case of people scared of trying something else,I think it could be easy enough to break the scoring down into something that wasn't to hard to grasp,but at the end of the day,I can't see change happening,as so many people are scared of change in all walks of life,so it's easier sticking with the flawed system that has got them this far,they can always spin the,if it's not totally broke then why fix it crap.

I'm sure alot of new idea's for scoring MMA would create more problems than the current scoring system,but nobody knows untill people actually get of there arses and try them,i'd love it if more and more little shows were supported by the commisions to act as guinea pig shows,and try more Ideas out,idea's will always be disgaurded untill they are seen put in action,and you also can't tweek and improve on them untill you see them at work.

the problem with that is i doubt the commisions have the money or backbone to back these ideas.

threeofclubs wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:a submission is as decisive finish as a KO.

No, it's not.

A KO leaves a fighter unable to continue. 90% of submissions do not.

A lot of time that is only because they tap. Subs can do a lot of damage.

that's because they have the option to tap. Getting caught in a submission when you have the option to tap is like having a wrestler pin you down and dryhump. Unless you're an idiot you're not getting hurt.

payneNglory1 wrote:

where are these found and are they available for any fight?

payneNglory1 wrote:

Glenn Trowbridge is the only one of the three that can say he did his job properly and even he didn't give Maynard the score he deserved for the first round. Marcos Rosales is some variation of retard.

the_king wrote:

payneNglory1 wrote:

where are these found and are they available for any fight?

I found this on another site,some get posted every now and again on certain sites,but i don't know where they manage to find them.
It would be a great thing if the public were allowed access to all of them though.

It's surprising that only one judge gave Maynard the third round. I thought the fifth was the hardest to call.

Yeah I gave Maynard the 3rd but I actually thought Edgar won the 5th rd.

I saw your scoring, that's how I scored it as well. Maybe the first could have been 10-7 but I didn't expect any of the judges to have scored it that way.

Vera's been cut.


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2011/01/06/brandon-vera-issued-release-after-lopsided-loss-to-thiago-silva/



What's next for him?

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Vera's been cut.


http://fiveouncesofpain.com/2011/01/06/brandon-vera-issued-release-after-lopsided-loss-to-thiago-silva/



What's next for him?

probably strikeforce. not sure who he will fight maybe a striker.

Marcus Davis has been cut also

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/6/1919030/marcus-davis-cut-by-the-ufc

and here's one I didn't expect to happen so fast

Antonio Mckee Has Been Released aswell

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2011/1/5/1917972/antonio-mckee-has-been-released-following-his-ufc-125-loss-to-jacob

I thought McKee said he was going to be UFC champion by the end of the year, back to dry-humping journeymen I guess.

McKee spends 7 years dryhumping bums and then gets one fight in the UFC and fails to beat an average fighter. Ah well.

Feel bad for Davis. I like him as a person and as a fighter, he's had a rough time in a lot of fights and been really unlucky in a lot of fights. He beat Hardy and got screwed, he was winning both of his last two fights when he got finished. His only other losses in the last 5 years are to Swick and Saunders. Don't think he's ever been in a boring fight either.

Really hope he keeps fighting. I'm hoping to go train at his gym at some point this year.