contains a spoiler

I agree,I'm not for a second saying that the UFC haven't got some of their match ups completely wrong and have been guilty of bad match making,it's always going to happen every now and again but as a whole I would say they get it right most of the time.

You can never get it right all the time,as some fights on paper look like great match ups but end up being boring fights and vice versa,all you can really control is making sure that both guys are of a similar ranking.

Despite being an entertaining card to watch, the only fight on the Strikeforce card that split opinion in the predictions league was St Preux v Radach. Lindland got a couple of votes but on a quick look through it looks like pretty much everyone went for Hendo, Silva and Daley. I suppose all these fights were still relevant in determining the pecking order at Strikeforce though. For example, Babalu was apparently in line to be the number one contender, however he passed over the shot as he didn't want to fight his training partner Lawal.

As Chesty points out though putting together evenly matched fights doesn't always provide entertainment. I've seen too many fights lately where there has been very little action. I ended up watching the latter part of Story v Hendricks at double speed.

I would say the St Preux - radich votes were split because not many really knew much about St Preux,while they have obviously seen and heard of Radich before.

But when you really looked at it,i didn't really have any doubts who would win that,it was a LHW fight and radich,a MW who hadn't fought for a year,was fighting his comeback fight for the first time as a LHW,while ST Pruex is a big LHW that has been on a tear and just beat another good prospect in Britt in his last fight two weeks before,who like radich was lucky to see the second rd.

SF:

Nick Diaz- Zaromskis
Manhoef- Lawler
Lashley - Sims (on few days notice)
Walker- Nagy

Shields - Hendo
Melendez - Aoki
Mousasi - Mo

Overeem - Rogers
Arlovski - Big foot
Jacare - Villasenor
Roger Gracie - Randleman
Britt - Feijao

Lawler - Babalu
Zaromskis - Cyborg
Kennedy - Prangley
Heun - Noons

Fedor-Werdum
Smith- Cung Le
Thomson - Healy

Mo - Feijao
Kennedy - Jacare
Noons - Gurgel
Lashley - Griggs

Diaz-Noons
Thompson - JZ
Woodley - Galvao

Hendo - Babalu
Daley - Smith
Big foot - Kyle
Lawler - Lindland
Radach - St preux


So what do people think? There are certainly quite a few over whelming favourites here, ironically some of them ended up loosing. Fedor, all 3 Nashville fighters, Lashley, Mo against Feijao etc.....

Without a doubt the best KTFO of the whole weekend.

http://www.mmashare.info/serious-mma-videos-f35/pablo-garza-vs-fredson-paixao-tuf-12-finale-kotn-t32826.html



I warned you guys in the predicition thread, no one listens.

when he got his ass handed to him by the chinese guy i assumed he was crap

yeah those weigh in pictures did make me second guess,but from watching him look poor on TUF and against Zhang I just couldn't back him.

They dont call him the chineese sensation for nothing.



How about sub of the year?

http://www.mmashare.info/serious-mma-videos-f35/tuf-12-nick-pace-v-campuzano-slick-choke--t32848.html


Anfield will be interested in Rogan's commentary when the fight is over.

Should of got the sub of the night award,i'll bet the only reason he never got the award was because he didn't make weight for his fight.

I said it earlier,I love seeing subs that i've never seen before,we had mr wonderfuls one armed Kimura the other week and now this

Paces sub was better and like i said i'm sure he'd of got the bonus if he had made weight but Cody's sub wasn't to shabby either.

Do you think it was the pressure on his jaw or the way he was cranking his neck that made him tap,because it wasn't a choke was it.

UFC ALWAYS puts on mis-matched fights, it's not at all the case in Strikeforce. All of the fights on Saturday with the sole exception of Big Foot-Kyle which was made at the last minute were extremely well balanced fights.

Daley's left hook KO was the best KO of the weekend. Daley was fighting a much bigger man, moving backwards and fighting someone who's reknowned for taking a punch. Garza was fighting a midget who's 2 weight classes smaller than him.

And Rogan proves what I've been saying all along, without Bravo he hasn't nearly as much knowledge as he gets credit for, Bravo is always at EVERY show talking in his ear. As that fight was on the undercard he was probably wandering around talking to people as he normally is. Those who decided they knew better may now line up to be told they are muppets................

payneNglory1 wrote:Paces sub was better and like i said i'm sure he'd of got the bonus if he had made weight but Cody's sub wasn't to shabby either.

Do you think it was the pressure on his jaw or the way he was cranking his neck that made him tap,because it wasn't a choke was it.

It's possible that simply by putting huge downward pressure on his chin and jaw he could in theory cut blood supply to the brain, thats assuming he has outrageous squeeze (and with his record, I won't argue. I imagine it would have had a similar effect as a triangle.

Anfeild,what aload of crap mate,not one of the fights on that card was between two evenly ranked fighters.

great fun fights yes,but complete mismatches.

The UFC always put on mismatched fights

I know your over the top with your anti UFC crap,but that statement is even out there for you.

bigfoot v kyle on paper was a mis match but the fight was entertaining when kyle rocked him.

Main reason for Strikeforce complete mismatches is that their roster is utter shite. Smith is a can, just because he exposed Cung Le, means nothing as he is still a can. Daley is top 10 WW. But because SF have such a poor roster, when Smith decided to drop down to 170lb, him against Daley was actually relevant for that decision.

For Daley, if Smith didnt decide to drop to 170lb he probably woud hve fought Cyborg, and again it would have been a mismatch and have produced an easy KO win.



Strikeforce don produce mismatches eh? I dont recall the UFC ever having to pull a fight off, because the bout wasnt competitive enough, and wouldnt ge santioned by the commision.

payneNglory1 wrote:Anfeild,what aload of crap mate,not one of the fights on that card was between two evenly ranked fighters.

great fun fights yes,but complete mismatches.

The UFC always put on mismatched fights

I know your over the top with your anti UFC crap,but that statement is even out there for you.

Hendo vs Babalu - two top 5 ranked LHW's in SF and far more evenly ranked than Maia vs Grove for example.
Lawlor vs Lindland - unquestionably a competitive fight between evenly ranked fighters.
Radach vs OSP was two evenly matched fighters.

And i'm sorry, but if you want to talk about mismatches, how about Toney vs Couture?? Just because the UFC bribed the commission to allow that fight doesn't make it competitive. The single biggest mismatch in major promotion history.

Some mismatch fights are needed though. Lets take Daley vs Smith for example. Okay a clear mismatch but it's always good to give a fighter a good easy fight to begin his career with. The KO reminded the US audience what Daley was capable of and made him more marketable in the future. The UFC put on Daley vs Hazelett and it wasn't even his first fight. That was a mismatch as well. Both companies put on mismatches from time to time, and there's nothing wrong with that. Pride, put on a countless number of mismatches in there day as well, so whats the problem?

Also, while Maia vs Grove looked like a mismatch based on the rankings, based on there styles it had potential to be close and it was. If Grove had any take down defense he would have won.

Even with all the freakshows Pride put on, they never put on a fight like Toney vs Couture and tried to make out it would be competitive.

Daley vs Smith was a good fight to make. Ridiculous to call Smith a can. It wasn't a mismatch. Smith was a competitive MW who fought Nick Diaz not that long ago and gave him a decent fight. He also beat Benji Radach, Terry Martin and Cung Le in the last 2 years and gave Robbie Lawlor a great fight first time round. He was moving down in weight and came in the much bigger man.

Apart from there freak show fights like Fedor vs Zulu, they would put fights like Cro Cop vs Saku and try and put them off as competitive. Saku is an all time great, but that was a mismatch.

Randy vs Toney was nothing more than a quick cash grab and to get some bragging rights. Nothing more, ofc they all hyped it up, but what kind of company would they be if they didn't hype up there events?

And I agree about Daley vs Smith and Smith in general. It was the perfect fight for them to make IMO. Not sure why he's a can, he has some good wins and is always an exciting fighter. Not sure he was that much bigger than Daley though, Daley is a big WW.

Zulu was twice the size of Fedor and Saku was from a generation when it wasn't the size of the dog in the fight etc.

Look at this weekends UFC card. Alves vs Howard is a comical mismatch. Alves is a top 5 WW. Howard's not even top 20.

How is Stevenson vs Danzig a relevant or competitive fight?

Miller vs Oliviera is a great fight, fair play to them on that.

McCorkle vs Struve is another mismatch. Struve was 1 win from a number 1 contenders match not long ago and has fought top level guys. McCorkle's biggest career win BY FAR was against Hunt who A) is years past his best, and B) had lost 5 in a row.

Ye but this was Fedor 2005 version, the year he really made his name as the greatest ever. He was the top P4P fighter at that point, at the very least tied with Shogun (depending on whether the fight happened before or after the tournament). That was Zulu's second fight in Pride and he had beaten absolutely no one. Absolute mismatch as the actual fight proved unlike Maia vs Grove for example or Kyle vs Big Foot. Fair enough about Saku.

Alves needs a gimme fight I think. He has suffered with injuries, and in the last 8 rounds of competition he has lost all 8. I don't think its a bad match-up at all, Alves is still young and still needs time to develop into a top class fighter. Howard can provide some tests. Granted there could have been better options instead of Howard but this is fine. I don't see why its so comical, Alves needs to start building again.


Stevenson is a gate keeper while they need to find someone for Danzig to find. I'm not complaining, it's a chance to see Danzig get his ass whopped as Rampage would say.

JDS and Nelson are the top level guys Struve fought and he was humiliated in both. His wins are over journeymen and bums. Plus he is only 22! He is nowhere near title contention now, he has too many holes in his game and might get killed if he fights the higher level guys. He needs to build himself up and the UFC are doing the right thing with him now. He got battered beyond belief in his last fight and didn't look great. He isn't a top 20 guy right now. McCorkle is undefeated and is a massive man. He should provide a good test for Struve and will help deal with the bigger guys in the division. Not so sure what you find wrong with this match up, you must really rate Struve highly.

Had Struve beaten Nelson he'd have been in the number 1 contenders fight with JDS. Granted he would have lost, but McCorkle is a massive step down from that level of competition. Complete rankings mis-match. Which is what Strikeforce is being accused of.

Stevenson is a former title contender and has a good record with some good wins and his last 4 losses were all to top LW's. Danzig is arguably the worst fighter in the UFC, should have been cut and has never beaten anyone decent.

Alves IS a top class fighter, he's one of the top 5 WW's in the world. Howard is shit and his biggest win was against Hallman who kicked his ass for 14 minutes! Comical fight to make. There are plenty of others that Alves could have been matched with. It doesn't matter if he lost his last 8 rounds, get turtle-fucked isn't exactly going to leave him injured.

Ye but the fight with Nelson showed how out of his depth he was. If he had lost a close decision, and then dominated his next opponent then he wouldn't be in this match up. Rankings don't take into account performances. McCorkle could very well win this match up. Struve was thrown into the lime light very early after beating a bunch of cans. JDS was just starting out when they fought. At this point, Struve is nothing more than promising. This is an excellent match up for him.

Stevenson vs Danzig is kind of pointless to be fair, but they have to keep Daddy active someway. There probably trying to run out Danzig's contract as well and after the tough run of fights Daddy has had, he could do with an easy fight.

Alves isn't top 5 right now. GSP, Fitch, Diaz, Kos and Shields make up the top 5. But I agree he is a top fighter, but still, he hasn't shown he can cope with the creme of the crop. He has faced the top 2 WWs three times and was beaten comprehensively all three times. He is out of form and I think this is a good fight for him. It puts pressure on him because its a fight he has to win. If he goes out, gets a nice KO it will restore his confidence and he can look for bigger and better things. Howard will stand with him as well, someone like Story or Pyle wouldn't. I think it's clever match-making TBH. A mismatch? Absolutely, but a good mismatch.

I don't agree that SF puts on mismatches on a regular basis. In fact, sometimes they don't and its the wrong thing to do. That's the reason Parysian didn't join them, they wanted to throw him in there against Zaromskis, who was top 10 at the time and he hadn't fought in about over a year. He wanted an easy, mismatched fight.

I think this whole debate is a little silly, ofc both companies will put mismatches at times. It has to happen from time to time. Neither company can deny that. Even main events and title fights.

UFC: Toney vs Couture

SF: Cyborg vs Finney

Finney had won 4 in a row and was an experienced fighter. She's also in shape and in her prime.

Toney is a fat, old hasbeen boxer who came into the biggest organization in MMA and in his MMA debut, rather than been giving a Buentello or someone average fighter that would have stood with him and who he would have had a chance with, he get's a 5 time champion who's base in wrestling. It was never EVER going to be a close fight.

Alves missed weight against Fitch and came in drained and off a long lay-off. To say he's in bad form is untrue. Yeah he's lost to the top two in the world but look at what he did before the GSP fight. He literally destroyed everyone put in his path.

Alves is above Kos and Diaz, and given your arguements about accomplishments in other divisions, surely he'd be above Shields as well?

GSP-Shield-Fitch-Alves-Kos.

Anfields5thKing wrote:

Hendo vs Babalu - two top 5 ranked LHW's in SF and far more evenly ranked than Maia vs Grove for example.
Lawlor vs Lindland - unquestionably a competitive fight between evenly ranked fighters.
Radach vs OSP was two evenly matched fighters.

And i'm sorry, but if you want to talk about mismatches, how about Toney vs Couture?? Just because the UFC bribed the commission to allow that fight doesn't make it competitive. The single biggest mismatch in major promotion history.

Babalu has been shot for years,he shouldn't be in any top 20 LHW rankings,he only just scraped out a win over MW Lawler the fight before and the last descent LHW he fought blasted him out quicker than Hendo did,while Hendo is still a solid top 10 LHW,for me this was an easy big name fight fore Hendo to get him back on track,after all the money Strikeforce have invested in Hendo,they needed to give him an easy win.

Lindland is a 40 year old that hasn't been ranked for years,shit he struggled to get past Casey on a challengers event in his fight before,while Robbie is a steady top 15+ MW,not even close to being similarly ranked.

OSP is a huge LHW that's been on a tear lately.He beat a good prospect in Britt the fight before where britt just like radich was very lucky to be allowed to see the second rd.
Radich a MW that's been out of action for a year and was 1-2 at MW before this fight and who has nevr fought at LHW,that's an even fight
This was one of the easiest fights to pick the winner and that's really saying something on this card.

Scott Smith was very lucky to not be 0-5 going into this fight apart from to miracle comeback punches,he got battered in every one of those fights,he got cut from the UFC for good reason because he is poor,then you add his cut which about killed him,this was an easy win for daley a top 10 WW,who only had to fight sensibly,which he did a great job of and watch out for the one big shot.

Then bigfoot - Kyle needs no explanation to how big a mismatch that was.

It made for a really fun night of fights,no doubt but the whole main card from top to bottom was a card full of really one sided mismatched fights.



Again I've never claimed that the UFC have never put out mismatched fights,but i would say 90% of the time that is not the case,while Strikeforce for good reasons,like I said be it there small roster,getting fighters tied down to certain dates or they are (sensibly IMO) doing it to create action and a good buzz to attract new fans,have put on more mismatches in the last year than they have even fights.

I agree with the maia - Grove fight being the biggest mismatch on the UFC card,but i'd say it wasn't that much different from the Lawler - Lindland fight personally and that was one mismatch fight on a card full of even ones.