SF vs UFC Heavyweight 16 man GP round 1

Payne what about experience? Grappling?

JDS beat who? A fat Werdum? and hes a proven heavy?

Overeem beat Sergei, Rogers, Igor, Belfort twice. As well as KOing Badr Hari, Overeem is more proven in a 45 fight career if you ask me.

Also Gassing and being weight drained are different issues, No Goldenglory trained figher is going to gas, K-1 fighters arent MMA fighers with a gas tank that lasts a round. The workouts they go through are intense... you can put a questionmark over Overeems stamina if you like because he is a fight finsiher but if Overeem was in there with Nelson it would have been another 1st round KO.

The Werdum being out of shape and fat gets played up to much IMO,it had nothing to do with how JDS blew him away,it's something that gets played up by the Fedor nut huggers and Reem believers,so it makes fedor and Reem losing to him not seem as bad,if they fought again JDS would put him to sleep again.

Randy beat belfort twice,what does that prove in the HW scene,Sergei also KO'd Reem and Igor was a spent fighter when they fought,he called it a day on his fighting career one fight after.

Yeah Overeem has alot of factors that could win him the fight,i'm not saying he couldn't,i just chose JDS in this because of what I have actually seen from both of them at HW

Just because you train somewhere doesn't mean you all have great cardio,does carwin have the cardio that nearly all of the rest of his team has?
plus it's alot easier cardio wise to go longer in a purely striking battle,but add clinches,takedowns and grappling,it will drain you 3 times as fast,it takes a completely differant toll on your body.

Weight drain could of been a factor,or he just didn't have a great gass tank in the first place,all I'm saying is looking at the guy,the muscle mass he now carries and the oxygen he needs for that build,I can't see him being able to go the distance in a top flight HW fight,he needs to finish in the 1st or i think he would find himself in trouble.

oh by the way,great thread,it's been a while since everyone came out and joined in to one discussion.

Fedor Emelianenko vs Cain Velasquez

Cain UD

Junior Dos Santos vs Alistair Overeem

Junior Dos Santos by sub (strikes)

Overoid wouldn't be able to cheat in this fight.


Josh Barnett vs Brock Lesnar
Barnett by TKO round 3


Fabricio Werdum vs Frank Mir
Werdum by UD


Shane Carwin vs Antonio Silva
Silva by UD



Brett Rogers vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira

Big Nog by sub round 3


Sergei Kharitonov vs Roy Nelson

Sergei Kharitonov by UD



Andrei Arlovski vs Brendan Schaub

Andrei Arlovski by KO round 2

Overeem wins by cheating? how?

you mean the steroids? he was tested for the Rogers fight and nothing was found.

I started reading Chelski's picks from the bottom up and he was doing well until he suggested Lesnar could actually last into the 3rd round of a fight.

He's JDS's biggest fan so I knew he'd pick him, regardless of the fact that Overeem is a much better striker and a better grappler.


I do love how all the UFC fanboys have jumped on the Cain bandwagon, typical really. Most of you thought Lesnar was going to destroy, now he's the best thing ever.

payneNglory1 wrote:The Werdum being out of shape and fat gets played up to much IMO,it had nothing to do with how JDS blew him away,it's something that gets played up by the Fedor nut huggers and Reem believers,so it makes fedor and Reem losing to him not seem as bad,if they fought again JDS would put him to sleep again.

Randy beat belfort twice,what does that prove in the HW scene,Sergei also KO'd Reem and Igor was a spent fighter when they fought,he called it a day on his fighting career one fight after.

Yeah Overeem has alot of factors that could win him the fight,i'm not saying he couldn't,i just chose JDS in this because of what I have actually seen from both of them at HW

Just because you train somewhere doesn't mean you all have great cardio,does carwin have the cardio that nearly all of the rest of his team has?
plus it's alot easier cardio wise to go longer in a purely striking battle,but add clinches,takedowns and grappling,it will drain you 3 times as fast,it takes a completely differant toll on your body.

Weight drain could of been a factor,or he just didn't have a great gass tank in the first place,all I'm saying is looking at the guy,the muscle mass he now carries and the oxygen he needs for that build,I can't see him being able to go the distance in a top flight HW fight,he needs to finish in the 1st or i think he would find himself in trouble.

oh by the way,great thread,it's been a while since everyone came out and joined in to one discussion.

Everyone has their own opionion and with a figher with a long career there are always slumps in their careers so its easier to say these 10 fight UFC fighters are the dogs balls but I want to point out a couple of things...

Their fights with Mirko. Low blows or not Overeem was Manhandling Mirko, really it was a big of fun. JDS had people worried and I think he did well but he had people questioning him over the performance. That was a year after Overeem fought him.

In the last 2 years Overeems combined fight time in fights he won (K-1 and MMA) has been about 25mins!! He steamrolls people quality of opponent aside, Rogers is a good figher, breezed through him, Aerts and Teixeira are good figehrs, same again.

If you put Overeem in the Nelson fight or a Crocop rematch do you not see him doing much much better? If you put JDS in with Badr Hari X2, Bonjasky, Aerts, Teixeira, Edwards, Dzevad Poturak. Do you think he would have as good a record?

Honestly JDS didnt look good in those fights. I wouldnt write him off but on current form he hasnt looked the fighter Overeem is.
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I agree he would beat Werdum in a rematch, Im not sold on Werdum as an MMA figher. I know his grappling is top notch but Gonzaga and Bigfoot could have beat him. I agree JDS wins a rematch for sure.

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I dont think the Werdum weight thing is an excuse at all. A fat Werdum can still tap you. A fat Werdum is one of the toughest guys in the world but seriously he was 20lbs overweight.



256lbs



238lbs

Just saying mate, if you talk about what point in your career that Overeems win over Igor then clearly it isnt just the name on the record its when you beat them. Gonzaga had been looking like shit and Werdum was 20lbs overweight.

My bad I actually did mean to pick Barnett to win that fight.

But as for the others JDS is my favourite fighter so there is no way I wasn't going to pick against him, especially considering how much I dislike Overoid. Overoid is a quitter and has been KOed by fighters lesser than JDS. If JDS landed a few shots on him, Overoid would tap faster than you could say horse meat. Sergei is a similar style fighter to JDS and he sparked him. Overoid isn't a top level K-1 fighter, he caught Hari once and with his power he was ofc going to KO him. Second time he was embarrassed.

And Chesty passing one test means nothing, Ken Shamrock passed many, many tests yet he admitted he was a cheater in the past.

I've always been a fan of Cain and I thought he would beat Lesnar easily. This was the toughest fight for me to pick, but if the fight was made right now I think Cain would win. Fedor has been pretty inactive and he is coming towards the end of his prime I think, while Cain is the best he has ever been. If this fight was made when both fighters were at there best then I would have picked Fedor.

Chelsea is Marquardt one of your favorites?

Can you post rd 2 up now? as i probably wont be on tomorrow....


Great thread btw.

I like Maurquardt but not one of my top favorites. Yes I know he was caught roiding once, but that's once, he hasn't pulled the same bullshit Overoid has and isn't as much of a quitter as Overoid is.

Also if Maurqaurdt was found out to be cheating against Palhares, then I wouldn't like him anymore.

rudeboyben84 wrote:

If you put Overeem in the Nelson fight or a Crocop rematch do you not see him doing much much better? If you put JDS in with Badr Hari X2, Bonjasky, Aerts, Teixeira, Edwards, Dzevad Poturak. Do you think he would have as good a record?

Honestly JDS didnt look good in those fights. I wouldnt write him off but on current form he hasnt looked the fighter Overeem is.

Those fighters aren't MMA fighters Ben, stop trying to discredit JDS' MMA career by highlighting wins in Overeems K1 record, compare their MMA records for christ sake.


JDS didn't look good? So a 25 year old with less than 10 pro fights coming in and handily beating the former No.2 HW fighter isn't looking good?


You really do forget how few fights JDS is into his MMA career and already his MMA credentials are on par with Overeems IMO.

Axe im talking about striking. Overeem just looks better on the feet recently, thats all I ment to point out. Know what I mean? You have to think in MMA he would have put Nelson away and done better against Crocop.

If were talking about MMA and dont expect it to be fought on the feet ive not seen enough of JDS or JDS against good guys on the ground to know what his level is.

Dont get me wrong I think JDS is a quality fighter, Im backing him over Cain and id have backed him over Lesnar too. I just think Styles make fight and if your style is to stand and your an MMA heavyweight fighting Overeem you are going to loose.

"You have to think in MMA he would have put Nelson away and done better against Crocop."


Based on what exactly? K1 isn't MMA, theres a lot more variables in MMA, for example Nelson tried on numerous occasions to take JDS down but JDS showed great takedown defence, could Overeem and his reknowned weakness in TDD have kept the fight on the feet? Take for instance the takedown attempt where Nelson actually lifted JDS up (the one where they both nearly ripped the cage in half as they crashed into it), you think Overeem could've survived that?



"If were talking about MMA and dont expect it to be fought on the feet ive not seen enough of JDS or JDS against good guys on the ground to know what his level is."


He's a blackbelt apparently and of course he trains with some of the very best in the world at Blackhouse. I can see him being very good on the ground.

Chelsea if he can pass a test vs Rogers though why can't he pass a test vs Dos Santos? its the same test...whether he is cheating or not.

Ye but Rogers is a shit fighter who has some power. Poor mans Bob Sapp. Overoid doesn't need to cheat to beat him, no one worth there salt does.

Rogers hits MUCH harder than JDS. He's not close to being the striker JDS is, but he hits A LOT harder.

JDS looked AWFUL against CroCop and was losing. Lost the first two rounds. Awful performance. Overeem dominated Mirko about 6 months before that.

JDS looked poor against Nelson and couldn't put him away. Arlovski knocked him out and Rothwell gave him a worse beating in the stand-up than JDS did.

Overeem would have tapped Nelson had he charged at him the way he charged at JDS. Overeem is the master of the guillotine and he'd have got his massive arms around that fat neck and choked him unconscious or until he tapped.

Look at Overeem's losses, take away the three when he was 20 and didn't really know what he was doing and was fighting much more experienced guys, one was to Bobby Hoffman in Overeems 7th fight. Hoffman was in his 18th and had beaten Ricco and Herring at that point and given Barnett a good fight. Actually, if you are bored go to Hoffmans Wiki page and check out the reason behind his TKO loss to Fedor.

He lost to Chuck who was the number 2 LHW in the world.
Then he lost to Little Nog.
Then he lost to Shogun who was fast becoming the best fighter in the world after Fedor.
Then he had a horrible run of 3 losses in a row to Little Nog, Arona and Shogun. Two of whom were top 5 LHW's and the other is a Nog.
Then he lost to Kharitonov.

And he hasn't lost since. Now, ALL of those losses were against top 10 guys. Every one of them. And other than the loss to Chuck they were all during a time when Reem was struggling badly to make 205.

Also, this myth Chelski continuously brings up about him quitting, When?? Against Arona? He tapped after having his orbital bone broken. Against Little Nog? Corner threw in the towel, Not him. and he tapped to Werdum who was about to destroy his shoulder with an amazing kimura. So, when exactly did he just quit?

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:.
]


Sorry but a first round KO when you were dropped multople times and didnt get any kind of effective offence of is the definition off 'tooled', regardless of who its against.

Once again you are talking out of your arse. He was NOT dropped multiple times, he was dropped once, and AGAIN this was an early stoppage. He wasn't close to being out. Overeem actually does land a couple of decent shots in this fight and was man-handling Hari. As with when you were talking out of your arse about the Pele-Silva fight, you will probably choose to ignore the evidence.

Not getting tooled:



Getting tooled:



Overeem gave Hari a beating. Rocked him badly twice, knocked him down, then knocked him out. The "Hari took him lightly" excuse is pure bullshit. Hari was in great shape and was in great form having destroyed everyone he'd faced over the past year with the exception of the DQ loss to Bonjasky.

Also, this myth Chelski continuously brings up about him quitting, When?? Against Arona? He tapped after having his orbital bone broken. Against Little Nog? Corner threw in the towel, Not him. and he tapped to Werdum who was about to destroy his shoulder with an amazing kimura. So, when exactly did he just quit?
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Doesn't matter what he broke, he still quit. It wasn't an arm or a leg, it was a small, very sensitive bone. Herring broke it against a man who was much bigger than him and a powerful hitter but he didn't quit. Arona has never been that hard a hitter and you can see in the fight he quit because of strikes.

The other time was against Sergie, he was gassed and just wanted to get out of there. He wasn't out after he went down but he clearly wanted to stop. Overoid = Quitter.

Does Overeem have bad takedown defence? I don't think he does. He's always had a surprisingly decent sprawl for such a tall guy. A bit of a weakness to outside leg trips, but that's probably something that's been improved upon since bulking up.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote: Poor mans Bob Sapp. .

is that possible i think sapp is poor.

Sapp is a joke now but there was once a time when he had huge potentiol. In MMA and K-1. At least Sapp has beaten some good fighters compared to the once fluke win Rogers has.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Sapp is a joke now but there was once a time when he had huge potentiol. In MMA and K-1. At least Sapp has beaten some good fighters compared to the once fluke win Rogers has.

true. speaking of sapp im going to watch him at bamma 5

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Also, this myth Chelski continuously brings up about him quitting, When?? Against Arona? He tapped after having his orbital bone broken. Against Little Nog? Corner threw in the towel, Not him. and he tapped to Werdum who was about to destroy his shoulder with an amazing kimura. So, when exactly did he just quit?
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Doesn't matter what he broke, he still quit. It wasn't an arm or a leg, it was a small, very sensitive bone. Herring broke it against a man who was much bigger than him and a powerful hitter but he didn't quit. Arona has never been that hard a hitter and you can see in the fight he quit because of strikes.

The other time was against Sergie, he was gassed and just wanted to get out of there. He wasn't out after he went down but he clearly wanted to stop. Overoid = Quitter.

Complete nonsense! Why do you continously tell lies?

Have you ever broken your orbital bone? If not you have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, Herring broke his and risked permanent damage, that makes him a fool. Tough, but a fool none the less. Vera tapped due to a broken orbital bone, MANY others have as well.

He was out against "Sergie" as you've called him, and the ref stopped it straight away.



It's comical, Lesnar ran away from Carwin, threw himself on the ground and clearly wanted to quit, yet you claimed he hadn't quit that he was displaying toughness.

sunthunder wrote:Does Overeem have bad takedown defence? I don't think he does. He's always had a surprisingly decent sprawl for such a tall guy. A bit of a weakness to outside leg trips, but that's probably something that's been improved upon since bulking up.

Overeem has a good sprawl, he does leave himself open to getting tripped but as you say, he's bulked up now. He can just man-handle pretty much anyone.

Does he have bad takedown defence? No. No he does not.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Also, this myth Chelski continuously brings up about him quitting, When?? Against Arona? He tapped after having his orbital bone broken. Against Little Nog? Corner threw in the towel, Not him. and he tapped to Werdum who was about to destroy his shoulder with an amazing kimura. So, when exactly did he just quit?
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Doesn't matter what he broke, he still quit. It wasn't an arm or a leg, it was a small, very sensitive bone. Herring broke it against a man who was much bigger than him and a powerful hitter but he didn't quit. Arona has never been that hard a hitter and you can see in the fight he quit because of strikes.

The other time was against Sergie, he was gassed and just wanted to get out of there. He wasn't out after he went down but he clearly wanted to stop. Overoid = Quitter.

Complete nonsense! Why do you continously tell lies?

Have you ever broken your orbital bone? If not you have no idea what you're talking about. Yes, Herring broke his and risked permanent damage, that makes him a fool. Tough, but a fool none the less. Vera tapped due to a broken orbital bone, MANY others have as well.

He was out against "Sergie" as you've called him, and the ref stopped it straight away.



It's comical, Lesnar ran away from Carwin, threw himself on the ground and clearly wanted to quit, yet you claimed he hadn't quit that he was displaying toughness.

Overeem also had some bad neck problems around the Nogueira 2/Arona fight. That's why the fight against Nogueira was stopped, Nog landed a particularly snapping shot that jolted Overeems head back, and his corner threw in the towel out of concern for the neck injury. Likewise Arona hammer fisting the back of his head/neck was part of that loss too.