SF vs UFC Heavyweight 16 man GP round 1

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:
Junior Dos Santos would be forced to stand with Reem where although he would have a punchers chance, he would be a huge underdog.

How exactly would JDS be an underdog?

a guy who was getting beaten by Old Cop and couldnt finish big country Nelson, would be an underdog in a striking battle to a man who is easily one of the top 5 absolute strikers in the world.

Overeem one of the top 5 best strikers in the world? Based on what exactly?! I love Overeem but it's absolutely clear that most of you on here are extremely biased in his favour. JDS was NOT losing against Mirko, not even close! He couldn't finish Big Country because Big Country showed an incredible chin and amazing heart, through no fault of JDS's own did that fight go to a decision.

He wasn't losing to Cro Cop, but I do think he dropped a round. He's just too hittable, Cro Cop was landing left straights on him the whole fight. Nelson was landing flush punches the whole fight. It's not the case that Dos Santos starts getting hit when he gets tired, it's something that happens right from the first minute of the fight. His chin was hanging way out in the air against Nelson from the get go and Overeem would exploit that.

I get that foremost, guys are valued and ranked on their tangible accomplishments. But sometimes the potential is just there to see. It's the same reason you could tell Lesnar would beat Couture when they fought. Who the hell had Lesnar ever beat? Didn't matter, looking at the skillset he possessed was enough. That's how a lot of people feel about Overeem now.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:
Junior Dos Santos would be forced to stand with Reem where although he would have a punchers chance, he would be a huge underdog.

How exactly would JDS be an underdog?

Because Overeem is a K1 level striker and JDS is not. It's very simple. Overeem is a bigger, better version of JDS.

I don't buy it. Just because he competes in K1 and has a so-so record, doesn't automatically make him the one of the best in the world.

JDS had a very successful Kickboxing record before starting in MMA, granted not at K1 level but he was still successful.

manschesthair_utd wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Brock has never been KO'd, Silva has. Carwin has more power than Eric Pele IMO and we all saw what Pele did to Silva.

Brock was KOd in his last fight.

ok it was a TKO but so was bigfoots loss. and that would have put down a rhino IIRC.

I'd wonder if Axe actually did see what Pele did to Silva.

Silva has a very good chin, this fight should never have been stopped when you look at what Carwin did to Lesnar and it wasn't stopped.

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:
Junior Dos Santos would be forced to stand with Reem where although he would have a punchers chance, he would be a huge underdog.

How exactly would JDS be an underdog?

Because Overeem is a K1 level striker and JDS is not. It's very simple. Overeem is a bigger, better version of JDS.

I don't buy it. Just because he competes in K1 and has a so-so record, doesn't automatically make him the one of the best in the world.

JDS had a very successful Kickboxing record before starting in MMA, granted not at K1 level but he was still successful.

He had an average kickboxing career fighting at a very low level. Overeem has beaten Badr Hari. And yes, competing in the K1 grand prix DOES make you one of the best in the world.

JDS was getting beaten by CroCop who Overeem was battering until he caught him with the knee to the balls.

JDS would be a huge underdog and at a huge disadvantage against Overeem. As for Big Country, Arlovski stopped Big Country, JDS should have been able to.



Looking over this entire thing, I think it's comical that people think Lesnar would have a chance against Barnett, but it's almost as funny that people think Cain could beat Fedor. Before the Lesnar fight everyone said Cain had a dodgy chin, Lesnar doesn't hit like Fedor. Lesnar can't grapple like Fedor and Lesnar can't take a punch like Fedor. I love Cain, he's the future of the HW division but there's no chance he would beat Fedor. NONE.

sunthunder wrote:

rudeboyben84 wrote:Werdum 15 : Mir 5
Carwin 14 : Bigfoot 6
Overeem 14 : JDS 6
Sergei: 14 : Nelson 6
Arlovski 13 : Schaub 7
Nog 13 : Rogers 6
Lesnar 11 : Barnett 9
Fedor 11 : Cain 9

Nice Picks Chesty, same as me other than I think Mirs size and striking means being more well rounded than Werdum... Shocked at the Bigfoot thing,

axe has a point but did Pele drop him or get him down and some unanswered GnP?

I agree, Bigfoot isn't getting a fair shake of the stick here. I think people are generally really over-rating Carwin as a striker. This is a guy who looked extremely uncomfortable on the feet with Neil Wain before he took him down. Gonzaga clipped him hard twice. Even in the Mir fight, Carwin just mauled him against the cage, he didn't catch him flush whilst standing.

I don't really see Bigfoot as a guy Carwin can just take down and run through on the ground if he feels like it. Bigfoot has a decent guard, as opposed to Lesnar who has no guard at all. Plus Bigfoot can box and fight past the first round.

Big Foot is a BB in BJJ and Judo, he'd have no problems handling Carwin if it went to the ground, and he's clearly the better striker in this one.

payneNglory1 wrote:Fedor Emelianenko vs Cain Velasquez
I still think Fedor is the GOAT,but I think his best is behind him and Cain is the new man at HW,Cain UD

Junior Dos Santos vs Alistair Overeem
Hard not to like Overeem,but for me he is still unproven as a HW,if your best win to date is against Rogers,who I think is poor,so I'm giving this one to JDS.
Reem to gass and get clipped late into the second rd,JDS 2nd rd KO

Josh Barnett vs Brock Lesnar
I'd hate to predict this one for Barnett because I don't really like the guy

so I won't Brock UD


Fabricio Werdum vs Frank Mir
I think Mir wins the 1st rd keeping it standing,but in the second the fight will hit the deck,werdum will not sub him there because mir's sub defence will be all good,but Mir's weakest part of his game will come into effect and Werdum will gain top position and pound him out late in the second,Werdum 2nd rd TKO

Shane Carwin vs Antonio Silva
Carwin puts bigfoot straight on his back and pounds him out in brutal fashion,carwin 1st rd TKO


Brett Rogers vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Big Nog only has to aviod the Kwick fit fitters one and only weapon for the first rd,which he does,then rogers starts gassing and swinging wildly,Nog aviods a big shot by dropping to his back but dumbass rogers does a Fedor/werdum and follows him down,where Nog slaps on a choke and puts him to sleep.Nog 2nd rd sub




Sergei Kharitonov vs Roy Nelson
This one starts similar to when Roy fought Arlovski,except the ref doesn't get involved and lets Roy smother Sergei with his gut for 3 rds to get the decision,Roy UD



Andrei Arlovski vs Brendan Schaub
Andrei's chin is shot and he doesn't seem to have the killer instinct he once had,so i think schaub comes out fast,hurts Arlovski early,putting him straight on the back foot and making him tentative about exchanging,then in the second rd Schaub lands a bomb and pounces to finish with a bit of GNP,Schaub 2nd rd TKO

The most blatant case of fanboy-ism I've seen in a long time. Schaub gets one half decent victory in his career and all of a sudden he's going to beat a former top 3 ranked HW??

Comical effort at the Carwin-Silva fight, almost as funny as your claim that Reem is unproven at HW because his biggest win is Rogers. JDS's biggest win is who exactly?? Nelson??

Cain is the new man at HW?? A few weeks ago you were telling us that Lesnar was going to destroy him.

Actually, Meanie's are just as fanboy-ish as Payne's.


BEN! - I've changed by Rogers-Nog pick. Can't see Nog's chin surviving many of Rogers punches.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:

payneNglory1 wrote:Fedor Emelianenko vs Cain Velasquez
I still think Fedor is the GOAT,but I think his best is behind him and Cain is the new man at HW,Cain UD

Junior Dos Santos vs Alistair Overeem
Hard not to like Overeem,but for me he is still unproven as a HW,if your best win to date is against Rogers,who I think is poor,so I'm giving this one to JDS.
Reem to gass and get clipped late into the second rd,JDS 2nd rd KO

Josh Barnett vs Brock Lesnar
I'd hate to predict this one for Barnett because I don't really like the guy

so I won't Brock UD


Fabricio Werdum vs Frank Mir
I think Mir wins the 1st rd keeping it standing,but in the second the fight will hit the deck,werdum will not sub him there because mir's sub defence will be all good,but Mir's weakest part of his game will come into effect and Werdum will gain top position and pound him out late in the second,Werdum 2nd rd TKO

Shane Carwin vs Antonio Silva
Carwin puts bigfoot straight on his back and pounds him out in brutal fashion,carwin 1st rd TKO


Brett Rogers vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Big Nog only has to aviod the Kwick fit fitters one and only weapon for the first rd,which he does,then rogers starts gassing and swinging wildly,Nog aviods a big shot by dropping to his back but dumbass rogers does a Fedor/werdum and follows him down,where Nog slaps on a choke and puts him to sleep.Nog 2nd rd sub




Sergei Kharitonov vs Roy Nelson
This one starts similar to when Roy fought Arlovski,except the ref doesn't get involved and lets Roy smother Sergei with his gut for 3 rds to get the decision,Roy UD



Andrei Arlovski vs Brendan Schaub
Andrei's chin is shot and he doesn't seem to have the killer instinct he once had,so i think schaub comes out fast,hurts Arlovski early,putting him straight on the back foot and making him tentative about exchanging,then in the second rd Schaub lands a bomb and pounces to finish with a bit of GNP,Schaub 2nd rd TKO

The most blatant case of fanboy-ism I've seen in a long time. Schaub gets one half decent victory in his career and all of a sudden he's going to beat a former top 3 ranked HW??

Comical effort at the Carwin-Silva fight, almost as funny as your claim that Reem is unproven at HW because his biggest win is Rogers. JDS's biggest win is who exactly?? Nelson??

Cain is the new man at HW?? A few weeks ago you were telling us that Lesnar was going to destroy him.

Anfield, you rogue! It was going so well until that!!
Take it I'm on my own re Beth Tweddle then

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:He had an average kickboxing career fighting at a very low level. Overeem has beaten Badr Hari. And yes, competing in the K1 grand prix DOES make you one of the best in the world.

JDS was getting beaten by CroCop who Overeem was battering until he caught him with the knee to the balls.

Overeem beat Badr because Badr underestimated him. Look at the rematch where Badr took him seriously, Overeem got absolutely tooled.

sunthunder wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

manschesthair_utd wrote:
Junior Dos Santos would be forced to stand with Reem where although he would have a punchers chance, he would be a huge underdog.

How exactly would JDS be an underdog?

a guy who was getting beaten by Old Cop and couldnt finish big country Nelson, would be an underdog in a striking battle to a man who is easily one of the top 5 absolute strikers in the world.

Overeem one of the top 5 best strikers in the world? Based on what exactly?! I love Overeem but it's absolutely clear that most of you on here are extremely biased in his favour. JDS was NOT losing against Mirko, not even close! He couldn't finish Big Country because Big Country showed an incredible chin and amazing heart, through no fault of JDS's own did that fight go to a decision.

He wasn't losing to Cro Cop, but I do think he dropped a round. He's just too hittable, Cro Cop was landing left straights on him the whole fight. Nelson was landing flush punches the whole fight. It's not the case that Dos Santos starts getting hit when he gets tired, it's something that happens right from the first minute of the fight. His chin was hanging way out in the air against Nelson from the get go and Overeem would exploit that.

I get that foremost, guys are valued and ranked on their tangible accomplishments. But sometimes the potential is just there to see. It's the same reason you could tell Lesnar would beat Couture when they fought. Who the hell had Lesnar ever beat? Didn't matter, looking at the skillset he possessed was enough. That's how a lot of people feel about Overeem now.

You do make some good points but IMO JDS's defense is only sloppy in MMA. I haven't seen any of his Kickboxing bouts but i can bet that in those fights he tucks his chin and uses all the correct technique. It's just in MMA there's so many variables he just doesn't think he needs his striking defense to be perfect, and its done him well so far.



The difference between the Brock- Couture comparison and the Overeem is Lesnar was just starting out, we had nothing to put against him at that point except of course his sub defence that he showed needed work in the first Mir fight. However Overeem isn't a newcomer to the game, we have over 40 pro MMA fights to judge Overeem.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:Actually, Meanie's are just as fanboy-ish as Payne's.


BEN! - I've changed by Rogers-Nog pick. Can't see Nog's chin surviving many of Rogers punches.

if i think about how this fight would pan out i see rogers pounding nog until nog subs him,

Werdum 16 : Mir 5
Carwin 15 : Bigfoot 6
Overeem 14 : JDS 7
Sergei: 14 : Nelson 7
Arlovski 13 : Schaub 8
Nog 11 : Rogers 7
Lesnar 12 : Barnett 9
Fedor 11 : Cain 10

Cool Anfield with your change and Paynes votes I guess its looking like Lesnar is going to survive the 1st round.

I cant see the Video in work but I remeber the stoppage was iffy, I cant remember if he was dropped though, was he?

Carwin being stopped in his tracks by short fat Journeyman Wain and Bigfoot beating AA standing really sums up how the fight goes on the feet I think.

But he's going to be fighting Overeem in MMA, not kickboxing. He'd get destroyed in kickboxing in fairness, he has a punchers chance in MMA but that's it. Nelson landed his right hand at will against JDS, CroCop landed his left hand at will. Overeem throws both hands very well. Which will lead to JDS trying for the takedown. You duck your head towards Overeem and the best knees in the sport are going to put you to sleep. And if you avoid the knees you risk getting caught in the guillotine. Overeem has arguably the best guillotine of anyone in MMA not named Marcelo Garcia.

And he did not get tooled by Hari. He simply got knocked out by the best striker in the world. Hari doesn't take anyone lightly, that's why he's the best. Overeem is top 5 though.


King, my thinking originally was that Nog of old would be able to take Rogers pounding on him and then sub him, but he's not that Nog anymore. When someone like Frank Mir can stop him, regardless of illness, Rogers would KO him if he landed one big punch.


Ben, Silva was dropped but was not even close to being out and Pele's GnP was mediocre and never in danger of doing damage. Ref jumped in. A horrendous stoppage.

Carwin and Lesnar going through is just proof that the UFC bullshit machine works. Neither should even be considered close to the best in the sport. Barnett is arguably the best after Fedor when he wants to be and Big Foot is simply a much better fighter than Carwin.

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:But he's going to be fighting Overeem in MMA, not kickboxing. He'd get destroyed in kickboxing in fairness, he has a punchers chance in MMA but that's it. Nelson landed his right hand at will against JDS, CroCop landed his left hand at will. Overeem throws both hands very well. Which will lead to JDS trying for the takedown. You duck your head towards Overeem and the best knees in the sport are going to put you to sleep. And if you avoid the knees you risk getting caught in the guillotine. Overeem has arguably the best guillotine of anyone in MMA not named Marcelo Garcia.

And he did not get tooled by Hari. He simply got knocked out by the best striker in the world. Hari doesn't take anyone lightly, that's why he's the best. Overeem is top 5 though.


King, my thinking originally was that Nog of old would be able to take Rogers pounding on him and then sub him, but he's not that Nog anymore. When someone like Frank Mir can stop him, regardless of illness, Rogers would KO him if he landed one big punch.


Ben, Silva was dropped but was not even close to being out and Pele's GnP was mediocre and never in danger of doing damage. Ref jumped in. A horrendous stoppage.

Carwin and Lesnar going through is just proof that the UFC bullshit machine works. Neither should even be considered close to the best in the sport. Barnett is arguably the best after Fedor when he wants to be and Big Foot is simply a much better fighter than Carwin.

JDS can take a punch, Overeem cant.

Sorry but a first round KO when you were dropped multople times and didnt get any kind of effective offence of is the definition off 'tooled', regardless of who its against.



Im not gonna get into a debate with you about how the fight would go because obviously thats all opinion. But naturally i just cant help debating things that i find erroneous, plus its fun to see your reactions sometimes Anfield. You always come across as though you're about to explode, this strikes me as YOUR average day at work..

thats funny as fuck axe i like the bit where the guy grabs that pole off of him and he replies by throwing a piece of paper lol. he sure did cause alot of destruction though.

the_king wrote:thats funny as fuck axe i like the bit where the guy grabs that pole off of him and he replies by throwing a piece of paper lol. he sure did cause alot of destruction though.

Lol i know, i'm actually surprised they let him have so much freedom and didn't try to tackle him earlier, bunch of wimps, looks at the guys in the bottom right sneaking off out of sight!



When the guy took the pole off him and the crazy guy threw something white at him, what was that? Because the hero runs off holding his head?!

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

the_king wrote:thats funny as fuck axe i like the bit where the guy grabs that pole off of him and he replies by throwing a piece of paper lol. he sure did cause alot of destruction though.

Lol i know, i'm actually surprised they let him have so much freedom and didn't try to tackle him earlier, bunch of wimps, looks at the guys in the bottom right sneaking off out of sight!



When the guy took the pole off him and the crazy guy threw something white at him, what was that? Because the hero runs off holding his head?!

paper i think it was floated around like paper. i was shocked nobody took him down hen he threw a monitor off that woman sitting accross from him.

It didn't really look like paper the way the guy ran off holding his head. Everyone man in that room should get fined for being absolute wimps!

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:

payneNglory1 wrote:Fedor Emelianenko vs Cain Velasquez
I still think Fedor is the GOAT,but I think his best is behind him and Cain is the new man at HW,Cain UD

Junior Dos Santos vs Alistair Overeem
Hard not to like Overeem,but for me he is still unproven as a HW,if your best win to date is against Rogers,who I think is poor,so I'm giving this one to JDS.
Reem to gass and get clipped late into the second rd,JDS 2nd rd KO

Josh Barnett vs Brock Lesnar
I'd hate to predict this one for Barnett because I don't really like the guy

so I won't Brock UD


Fabricio Werdum vs Frank Mir
I think Mir wins the 1st rd keeping it standing,but in the second the fight will hit the deck,werdum will not sub him there because mir's sub defence will be all good,but Mir's weakest part of his game will come into effect and Werdum will gain top position and pound him out late in the second,Werdum 2nd rd TKO

Shane Carwin vs Antonio Silva
Carwin puts bigfoot straight on his back and pounds him out in brutal fashion,carwin 1st rd TKO


Brett Rogers vs Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
Big Nog only has to aviod the Kwick fit fitters one and only weapon for the first rd,which he does,then rogers starts gassing and swinging wildly,Nog aviods a big shot by dropping to his back but dumbass rogers does a Fedor/werdum and follows him down,where Nog slaps on a choke and puts him to sleep.Nog 2nd rd sub




Sergei Kharitonov vs Roy Nelson
This one starts similar to when Roy fought Arlovski,except the ref doesn't get involved and lets Roy smother Sergei with his gut for 3 rds to get the decision,Roy UD



Andrei Arlovski vs Brendan Schaub
Andrei's chin is shot and he doesn't seem to have the killer instinct he once had,so i think schaub comes out fast,hurts Arlovski early,putting him straight on the back foot and making him tentative about exchanging,then in the second rd Schaub lands a bomb and pounces to finish with a bit of GNP,Schaub 2nd rd TKO

The most blatant case of fanboy-ism I've seen in a long time. Schaub gets one half decent victory in his career and all of a sudden he's going to beat a former top 3 ranked HW??

Comical effort at the Carwin-Silva fight, almost as funny as your claim that Reem is unproven at HW because his biggest win is Rogers. JDS's biggest win is who exactly?? Nelson??

Cain is the new man at HW?? A few weeks ago you were telling us that Lesnar was going to destroy him.

I knew when typing my chioces,it would provoke a reaction from you

Of coarse it's favouritism,just like you views on who will win these hypothetical match ups shows obvious favouritism and at the end of the day your out of your league here,since I do alot better than you at predicting the outcome of fights.

I'm not saying Schaub wins because he is all of a sudden a world beater,i'm saying it more because i think arlovski's done as a top fighter,so the matter of he once was a top 3 is irreleveant,he certainly isn't now.
Even though he put up a better performance against bigfoot in his last fight,he was still poor,his chin looks shot and most importantly his heart doesn't seem to be in it anymore,this would be like if Phil davis fought chuck now,i'd back mr wonderful even though Chuck was the former #1(yes,i said it,#1 over Wandi)

It's only a comical effort about bigfoot and Carwin,if Silva had ever beat anyone relevant before,he's a good well rounded fighter no doubt,but he's beat no-one to say it would be comical for carwin to beat him.
I'm not saying carwin has a list of greats on his record,but IMO his two wins and performances over Mir and gonzaga are more impressive than what Bigfoot has on his.

Who's Reem beat at HW?
Who's Reem beat so far in his career?
how many times has reem lost?

JDS has fought his whole career at HW,beating 12 and losing once,nearly 50% of his wins have been in the top flight against good fighters,Werdum,Struve,Cro-cop,Yvel,Gonzaga & Nelson.

Overeem has fought a collection of HW bums in his HW career,he has 2 wins that he can be given anykind of credit for at HW and thats Rogers(who I think is way over rated,I'd back Rothwell to beat him)and sergei,who he went 1-1 with,and he lost two Werdum at HW.

He's lost 11 times in his career,infact throughout his career,every big name fighter he's faced apart from Vitor he's lost to,so untill I actually see him against some legit HW's I'm holding off rating him to highly.I'm 100% behind him proving his potential,I think he will,but for now,thats all it is so far,it's unproven potential,where as JDS has actually proven his,against worthy fighters.

I never said anything like that(in the build up with my bets,i was hoping but not once was i confident),I was on the fence for the Brock - Cain fight,and was only backing Brock for the predictions.
I said cain was by far the more skilled fighter and a better representative,skill wise (not to sell the product)to be the UFC champ,but I have to admitt,the reason I leaned towards brock was due to I wasn't sure if cain could get back to his feet if brock took him down,which he did with ease(but i still don't think many other HW's could)then after that didn't work,It was obvious Brock had no plan B to go to.(plus I have to admit,I wasn't sold on Lesner not being able to take a punch,since it was carwin who hit him last time,i was wrong )

I've always thought that fedor is the GOAT,(I don't hang on his nuts like alot of you)but I have to admit I don't think he is now the dominant force that he was,I thought he was off against Arlovski and managed to capitalise on a stupid Arlovski mistake,he didn't have it all his way against a poor part time kwik fit fitter and he just lost his last fight,these last 3 performances and all his renegotiating and talks of finishing and going into politics are what lead me to believe he's not what he once was.

Sergei Hl's



Last fight

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

Michael_Bisping_Is_A_Cunt wrote:But he's going to be fighting Overeem in MMA, not kickboxing. He'd get destroyed in kickboxing in fairness, he has a punchers chance in MMA but that's it. Nelson landed his right hand at will against JDS, CroCop landed his left hand at will. Overeem throws both hands very well. Which will lead to JDS trying for the takedown. You duck your head towards Overeem and the best knees in the sport are going to put you to sleep. And if you avoid the knees you risk getting caught in the guillotine. Overeem has arguably the best guillotine of anyone in MMA not named Marcelo Garcia.

And he did not get tooled by Hari. He simply got knocked out by the best striker in the world. Hari doesn't take anyone lightly, that's why he's the best. Overeem is top 5 though.


King, my thinking originally was that Nog of old would be able to take Rogers pounding on him and then sub him, but he's not that Nog anymore. When someone like Frank Mir can stop him, regardless of illness, Rogers would KO him if he landed one big punch.


Ben, Silva was dropped but was not even close to being out and Pele's GnP was mediocre and never in danger of doing damage. Ref jumped in. A horrendous stoppage.

Carwin and Lesnar going through is just proof that the UFC bullshit machine works. Neither should even be considered close to the best in the sport. Barnett is arguably the best after Fedor when he wants to be and Big Foot is simply a much better fighter than Carwin.

JDS can take a punch, Overeem cant.

Sorry but a first round KO when you were dropped multople times and didnt get any kind of effective offence of is the definition off 'tooled', regardless of who its against.



Im not gonna get into a debate with you about how the fight would go because obviously thats all opinion. But naturally i just cant help debating things that i find erroneous, plus its fun to see your reactions sometimes Anfield. You always come across as though you're about to explode, this strikes me as YOUR average day at work..

If Hari "tooled" Overeem, then what word would you use to describe what Overeem did to Hari the first time?>

which, for the record is a much better respresentation of their skills since they were both fresh, AND there is no 2 knockdown rule like in the GP. Overeem would have been fine if it was a normal K-1 fight.

Payne, i think for this matchups we are talking about the fighters in their current state, not the state they were at 5 years and 40lbs ago.

JDS has no advantage over Overeem, the only reason he is ranked higher is because he beat more top 20 ranked fighters.

Like i said earlier Chestie, Badr clearly underestimated Overeem the first time. The second time they fought Badr was focused and destroyed Overeem.

Cain UD
Brock UD
Mir ko rd 2
JDS UD
Arlovski UD
Sergei tko rd 2
Nog sub rd 3
Carwin ko rd 1

Anyone betting odds on Overeem winning the GP? Bet next to Schilt he was the favorite which speaks volumes if its right. JDS would get done in by plenty of guys on the lineup I reckon.

Yeah Chesty,in there currents states and in the current HW picture,JDS has actually beaten a run of good HW's while Overeem hasn't and thats also the reason why he is ranked higher also.

JDS - proven top HW
Reem - bags of potential but has proved nothing in the HW division.

JDS - Never gassed
Overeem - Has gassed before,carrying alot less weight than he carries now

JDS - has been 3 rds twice at HW
Overeem - has never been past a rd at HW(just like carwin before he gassed)

JDS - has took some big shots off HW's in MMA and Never been rocked
Overeem - has not took a good shot of a good HW in mma but has in the past been rocked and sparked by lesser punchers.

Overeem has the better striking,I wouldn't argue against that,but JDS has good striking also,the differance is JDS has fought good guys in MMA and took there shots,Reem hasn't,JDS can fight for all 3 rds as a HW,we don't know if Reem can.