Big Nog pulls out of fight with Mir ! Mirko Crocop is the replacement !!

redmeanie77 wrote:Oh please lets go through Crocop opponents who he's beaten last few years.

Barry, Perosh, Al turk, Choi, Mizuno, Eddie Sanchez.

And now he's submitted Pat Barry, people think Mir cant submit him.

Nobody said that because he subbed Barry, Mir can't sub him. Mirko has fought arguably THE three best heavyweight submission fighters in Fedor, Nog and Barnett, and only Nog subbed him. This was also before he started training his BJJ with another of the best BJJ practitioners in the world in Werdum. Mir's jiu jitsu is vastly vastly overrated as Chelsea pointed out, and nowhere near the level of prime Nogs.

redmeanie77 wrote:Oh please lets go through Crocop opponents who he's beaten last few years.

Barry, Perosh, Al turk, Choi, Mizuno, Eddie Sanchez.

And now he's submitted Pat Barry, people think Mir cant submit him.

Even if a fighter has fought poor opposition of late, that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether you should pick them over a fighter who has fought tougher guys. It's about styles.

Overeem has fought hardly anyone of significance at heavyweight and I'd pick him over Lesnar, because of his style.

Can Mir even get this fight to the ground?

Yeah well i was addresssing Chelsea, who is saying that Mir's BJJ is overated by trying to diminsh the opponents thats he's submitted. That is just wrong.

For example Gonzaga and Roy Nelson have barely submitted any named or ranked fighter in MMA. Does that mean their Grappling is no good. And that Brock Lesnar's is better?


I think the quality of opponents that Crocop has been beating in the last few years is an important factor when predicting this fight.

Thats fair enough but Gonzaga is an accomplished BJJ practitioner so whereas he hasnt submitted great MMA fighters, he has been there, done that and got the t-shirt, in the world of BJJ. I dont know much about Nelsons grappling credentials except he beat Mir once in a tournament but that in no way means hes better than Mir.

I'm not for one second saying Gonzaga is better than Mir on the ground (thats open for debate i think) but all i'm trying to highlight is why some, like Chelsea, think that Mir's ground game is overrated compared to Gabe and Roy.

Edit: i've just found Mir's credentials,

Black belt in Jiu Jitsu under Ricardo Pires.
Pan-American Championships:
2001 Blue Belt Pesadissimo: 1st place
Misc:
1998 Nevada State Wrestling Champion
2007 NAGA Absolute Division Champion

So he is probably more accomplished in BJJ than Nelson, so i dont know why Nelsons BJJ is classed as overrated either

That Mir-Nelson video was a long time ago when they were both purple belts. And Mir was dominating Roy at the begining until it looked like he gassed.

Its not an accurate reflection on both guys grappling as of now, paticularly in the MMA setting. Although i do rate both guys BJJ very heavily.

rudeboyben84 wrote:Shit I was looking forward to both Nog brothers on the card, I really hope Big Nog rests up and heals all his injuries, I hope he doesnt rush back to action before he is ready because it seems the Vultures are circling round him because he seems easy pickings, Crocop and Nelson are trying for a fight with him etc..

Roy Nelson's facebook:


“I just read big nog is out, so after I get knee surgery, we both can give the fans a show of heart, and great jits, and the next title shot after that.”


I guess calling out Nog is probably the fastest and easiest way to get into the title shot mix. Bet JDS is fuming he cant fight Nog and had to go through Werdum, Struve, Crocop, Yvel, Gonzaga and Nelson

And now he's submitted Pat Barry, people think Mir cant submit him.

who is saying that Mir's BJJ is overated by trying to diminsh the opponents thats he's submitted. That is just wrong.

I don't know who said that Mir can't sub Cro Cop because Cro Cop subbed Barry but it certainly wasn't me. I fully acknowledge that Barry has the worst ground game in MMA so subbing him doesn't make you a good grappler.

I said Mir's BJJ is overated for a number of reasons, the fact that he has been able to submit no top fighters shows that.

I think it was Axe who made a very valid point in saying that Cro Cop has fought three of the top 5 sub artists at HW and only Nog was able to sub when Cro Cop was still a kid. Barnett couldn't even take him down in three fights and Mir's takedowns are no better than Barnett's. Plus Cro Cop trained with Werdum who's BJJ is a lot better than Mir's.

Mir clearly has the BJJ advantage but I still say its overated and any top grappler would beat him easily.

Great trailer red, cheers for that. Im pumped for that event If Crocop and Lil Nog win ill be a very happy man!

Let's be honest now, Frank Mir is tailor-made for Mirko CroCop...
I'm seeing all these dumb threads about Mirko having no shot. If you've actually followed both of their careers -- understand their skillset and history and can put a little thought into the style matchup here, it's quite the opposite in my view.

This is a fight that will tell the world loud and clear whether Mirko is done as an elite fighter or not. Because this is an EXTREMELY stylistically friendly matchup for him, one he would be heavily favored in if both were in their primes. Frank Mir's strengths and weaknesses play right into Mirko's hands. Let's see, in Frank Mir, we have a very good submission artist who doesn't have the strongest takedowns, a guy who has above average striking skill, but not devastating power, a guy who doesn't take damage well, doesn't have the best chin and whose cardio has always been a question-mark. Mirko's biggest strengths in MMA have always been his technical striking skill, combined with quick-strike KO ability and TDD. He's also very tough/game and hard to put away. Even after his supposed collapse (post-Gonzaga/Kongo), he fought Overeem for 6-7 minutes and wasn't finished and lasted 12 minutes with JDS, two of the hardest hitters in the division for sure. He also took some of Pat Barry's hardest shots and came back to win.

Mir is an excellent finisher but he very rarely has any substantial offense after the 1st round (Nog fight excluded). He'll likely struggle to take Mirko down (meaning his submission game will be difficult to utilize) and, while his striking has improved, there's no way Mir is on the level of guys like Overeem, JDS and Barry offensively, all of whom couldn't put current Mirko away or, in JDS' case, needed until the third round. And defensively, Mir's history indicates he can't sustain damage. If Mirko lands a decent shot, it's easy to foresee Mir begin to shut things down. Mir's size, strength and improved standup skill could make for a shocking Gonzaga or Randleman like early finish, sure, but such a scenario is unlikely. And if Mirko can survive the first 5 minutes in good shape, the deck is likely stacked in his favor. Not that his cardio is impenetrable, but it's definitely more proven than Mir's. Mir's biggest successes come against guys he can overwhelm with his offensive skill and finishing ability early. Those who have the tools/toughness to whether his storm and/or land damage of their own typically give him serious trouble. Mirko, historically, would be considered one of those guys.





Saw this on Sherdog and agreed 1billion percent. By a guy who goes by the name of juggo, hes a mod i think. Really good points such as the fact that Mir has never had good takedowns. What do you think to this?

Typical Pride fan boy dreamer!

Seriously a rediculously optimistic view that seems to totally disregard current form and sugar coat Mirkos performances...

. Mirko was getting dropped and battered by Barry who only could finish due to Injury.

. Mirko didnt survive Overeem at all, he got low blowed but was on his way out, he was getting a 1 sided beat down.

. Mir "but not devastating power" seems bullshit because he leveled Kongo with a punch, Kongo is at least as good a striker as Barry IMO.

. Mirko but not devastating power anymore.

. Mirko got taken down by Gonzaga and Overeem, Mir should be able to do the same.

. Mirko has struggled with guys Mir's size. Mir has 7" of Reach which will be a huge factor in the range the figt happens at especially as Mir is a lot quicker than the Flat footed Mirko plodding about these days. Mirko has 30lbs of weight on him so like CC and Reem he should be able to secure a TD using his size.
------------------------

The guy who wrote that crap is a dreamer, just because JDS took a few rounds to put him away doesnt mean anything, Nelson went the distance with Nelson.

In recent fights Crocop has been Knocked down, taken down and outclassed by less than stellar opposition, I havnt seen anything impressive from him since leaving Pride, He isnt going to beat a top guy effectivley a weight class above him. I even expect Mir to completley outclass him on the feet.

Fair enough but you can't deny that Mirko looked great in round 2 and 3 against Barry. Okay he should've been put away in the first round but he got hit and came back, thats something Mir has NEVER done.

Also, Kongo isn't anywhere near Barry's level striking wise, and your talking out your arse if you think Mir is even remotely as good as Barry in the stand up. Frank's stand up has been blown ridiculously out of proportion with his two wins against a staph infected totally shot Nog who never was a great stand up fighter, and also a vastly overrated (even by you it seems) Cheick Kongo.

CroCop looked great in the second and third round for many reasons IMO, one being his legs being back to full health again. He was MUCH more aggressive with his legs than he has been in recent fights, axe kicks and what have ya.

And another thing, those who say CroCop has lost his killer instinct? ALL of his most recent wins have been stoppages.

I just simply can't believe how many people are righting CroCop off and giving him 0 chance against a fighter who is, i think, pretty overrated.




PS... Are my eyes deceiving me or did you just start off a post with the words "Typical Pride fan boy dreamer!"

World class Frank Mir striking

Cant see that Video mate but Mir on the front foot has heavier quicker hands than Crocop and should be able to overwhelm him as long as he doesnt stand at kicking range which I doubt he will... I dont see Crocop outstriking him with the massive size and speed difference, id class Crocop as a slow figher now. He looks half the speed he was in K-1 even after he bulked up.

Kongo and Barry both beat Hardonk
Kongo beat Crocop, Barry lost to him
Kongo rocked Cain senceless Barry hasnt fought anyone that level

Id hardly say Kongo is over rated by me, I just think he is about on the level with Barry and their careers would certainly suggest he is. Barrys average kickboxing record hardly makes him look like Ernesto Hoost. Kongo was close to KOing Cain.

I like Barry better than Kongo and Crocop better than Mir and im a bit of a PRide fanboy too but not like this guy, he seems to twist facts to make his favorites look good.... and I only do that with Wanderlei!

Brilliant Trailor

"I don't know if I will win the UFC belt but i'll die trying!!!"

AWESOME!!!!

That trailer gave me goose bumps. That 'nicktheface' sure churns em' out!
I'm dying for Mirko to win this one.

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:World class Frank Mir striking

That is a criticism? really? It seemed to work a treat!

He landed most of those! From a boxing view of the typical MMA low hands 90% of fighter have, if you have an 80" reach and can lead with your power hand before they can land a jab and follow with an uppercut and you can successfully land a 2 or 3 powerpunch combo I dont see how that isnt a great thing. Its more a fault of Nogs defence that clip shows. Nog has 0 upperbody movment and 0 head movement and to be honest neither has Crocop these days.

Mirko as a striker in his prime used footwork to get in and out and controll the range, if he isnt pressing the action and controlling the range he is in hot water. With his footwork gone he needs headmovement and I cant remember seeing any from him....

Id love to see a Video of Crocop showing any head and upperbody movement these days, or any decent footwork these days, Id even love to see a clip of him doing well of the back foot. It would give me a tiny bit of faith Crocop has a chance but after watching even a few of his K-1 fights he seems to try and cover up and regroup as oppose to counterpunch.

Weathering a storm can work, Maby when Mw's in Pride where throwing bombs at him but Frank mir is 265lbs its a different stroy.

Sorry to kill the Crocop loving vibe! Im a really big fan, Crocop/Wandy/Shogun are the fighter than made me a hardcore MMA fan but I dont see him winning this at.

That video showed his predictable striking, and how his supposedly great stand up is just one combo, shown there against an staph infected shot to pieces poor stand up fighter.

What is it that makes you rate Mir so highly exactly?

Vitali Klitschko constantly throws a standard 1-2 combo for 90% of his fight, if it was predictable and Nog was catching on, Then Change. If It lands 9/10 times why change things up if you know what I mean.

Mir has showed flashes of Brilliance recently and Crocop hasnt. I dont think Mir is a worldbeater but I rank Cain/JDS/Lesnar/Mir as the top 4 Heavies in UFC by quite a bit and I dont fancy Crocops chances against any of them.

Ive said loads of times that I think Throw Crocop in with some of the best Lhw's and he could do well but at heavy im certain he wont beat the top guys where he is the much less physical guy in the fight.

Mir's biggest career wins are Sylvia, Lesnar and Nog.


Nog- Shot, staph.

Lesnar- Absolutely obliterated, bullshit call from the ref, extremely lucky sub.

Sylvia- was a good win at the time but thats a while ago.



Now i dont even have to go into Mirkos biggest wins and how they are so much more impressive than Mir's, because 1) You're a Pride boy so you know what im talking about, and 2) You will obviously just bring up RECENT fights, which is far enough.



Best fighters both have fought recently;

Shane Carwin and Brock Lesnar for Mir, which he lost both by brutal KO's.

Alistair Overeem and JDS for Mirko, was losing the Overeem fight until it was stopped, and give JDS a close first two rounds before the younger, faster JDS prevailed in the third.


Now both Mirko and Mir lost their two most recent fights against TOP competition, but look at the fashion in which they lost them...

Mirko was beating JDS and taking his shots until he stopped wanting to fight.

Mir is made for a headkick, his stance and hands leave him open to it. just depends which Mirko shows up.

Oh, and any claims that Kongo is as good a striker as Barry are not only retarded, they are also completely irrelevant to discussions about someone chin!

Also, Kongo did not "nearly KO" Cain V. Complete nonsense. Stunned him a couple of times, got taken down and battered.

I'm beginning to like you Anfield.

it'll pass, don't worry!

Thank God for that.