Liddell is training under Eddie Bravo

http://www.fiveknuckles.com/mma-news/Chuck-Liddell-joins-forces-with-Eddie-Bravo.html

Liddell has only 1 submission win to his name! He really never was known for his BJJ and apart from a great sprawl was always considered a 1 dimentional fighter.

Liddell's chin is going so standing and trading isnt going to revive his career. Against Wanderlei he actually used his wrestling offensivley and took Wanderlei down, which was a great move as he had been rocked standing. With some BJJ under his belt could Liddell career continue for a bit or is it too late in the game for him to become well rounded?

I think the looser of Tito vs Chuck will have to think seriously about hanging up their gloves. Chuck was and always will be a terrible matchup for Tito who isnt really a threat on the feet (as he doesnt seem to have learned anything under Roach!) and Chuck is going to be hard for him to take down. If Tito can get Chuck down perhaps some BJJ will save Liddell from any GnP from Tito as it did Forrest in their 2nd fight.

If Liddell wins against Tito I heard Dana wants him to hand the gloves up regardless.. but as Dana said he isnt his dad.

What do people see for Chuck if he wins against Tito?

Forrest Griffin?
Maby even Avenging the Jardine loss?
a 4th fight with Tito?
I wouldnt mind seeing him fight Coleman depending on how he does against Couture

i really want to see chuck fight forrest if he wins that would be an exciting fight for sure

Forrest would be a huge fight, I think both fighters would be happy to take it because it would be a fight that would headline a card especially if both have beat Tito.

One thing is that Jardine is a bad loss to have on his record and it was a fight that looked like he could have won it. It depends on what he wants from his career but I think Avenging a bad loss like that would do a lot for his legacy.

Tito Vs Liddel is a pointless fight IMO no one really cares for it, Forrest V Chuck would be a good contest but both are kinda past it, I'm not really one for vet fights just think there boring and pointless, only vet worth watching at the mo is Nog...

I don't think Griffin is past it, strange term to use on him.

Liddell was supposedley a better wrestler than Tito in training and has better cred as well in amatuer level so Tito just has very little chance to beat him. Chuck has suffered from failing to evole into the next level recently with his losses against Shogun, Evans and Jardine. He has not rounded his game enough. Training BJJ will help him but thats not the only thing. If Chuck really wants to continue as a top level MMA fighter he needs to work on his training, look at how guys like Lesner and GSP train and work towards that level. He can't live the lifestyle he has been living if he wants to continue. Its not a problem if he wants to continue his way, just give up on MMA. He has had a long, successful career and deserves to enjoy his life, at 39 the sport won't give him much more anyway. But if he really wants to continue then he has to really get serious and a few BJJ lessons is not the be all and end all of evolving as an MMA fighter.

If he beats Tito, which im not sure he will then there's a few intresing fights left for him yet. I think most will agree he is done as a title contender, no way will he get to that level. KOed by the former champ and the number one contender. Whats left for him are the money fights. Depending on how long he wants to continue he probably should face Jardine again. I don't think he should try face Griffin. Griffin would be too much IMO, leg kicks and a frantic pace, plus better BJJ. I think Griffin would take the UD. The fight he should look for is Kimbo. Easy win and ALOT of money, on PPV as a co-main event that would make a lot of money. Kimbo will offer no problems.

Another fight that could be intresting is with Coleman/Couture. If Couture wins, he is a title contender and would be levels above Liddell so that fight would be pointless. So he could fight Coleman, a battle between two vets and HOFers. Could be intresting. I think if Randy fought Liddell a fourth time, he would batter him.

pinsman wrote:Tito Vs Liddel is a pointless fight IMO no one really cares for it, Forrest V Chuck would be a good contest but both are kinda past it, I'm not really one for vet fights just think there boring and pointless, only vet worth watching at the mo is Nog...

Thats very harsh, Wanderlei hasnt failed to entertain despite being on the slide, His fights still interest me. Randy Couture was entertaining me up untill last fight anyway.... What other Vets are there you dont want to see fight? Coleman put on fight of the night against Shogun and his fight with Bonner entertained me. Its been bad watching Liddell get sparked after seeing him in his prime but if he wants to fight and will comit himself to training hard I still think he can be relevant, im with the majority not a title contender who knows? I think he can be top 10 again for sure....

Speaking of old guys needing to retire, Don Frye has packed fighting in. Shame he finished the way he did.

I dont think Forrest is past it. He just hasnt the best chin around, never had. He's never looked bad or anything, just got sparked because of a poor chin but he has great Cardio and is one of the busiest fighters around. He is well rounded and like ChelseaQuinsdan pointed out his Legkicks are deadly... the man beat Shogun and Rampage, a few bad losses because of his chin but credit were credit is due.

To be fair Forrest looked piss poor against Anderson, i dont think we can put that down just to a poor chin (although it didnt make it any easier for him).

And i thought he should have lost at 106 against Tito, i think he should have won the first fight but the second fight was 29-28 Tito. Makes no difference i suppose but i would love to see who he fights next.

Anyone know if he will be willing to fight Randy?

redmeanie77 how could Tito have won the last fight, he lost the last round 10-8. And they won a round each before that... even if you wanted to give Tito the 1st 2 rounds which I dont see its still a draw. Judges rarely have the confidence to score a round 10-8 but if the last round of Tito vs Forrest 2 wasnt a 10-8 I dont know what is! So Tito drew at best, to give him a win when he was done by the 3rd would be crazy.

Anyway I dont see him fighting Couture. He trains under him and unless it comes down to them both in each others way for a title shot I dont think the fight will happen.

Liddell and Forrest has been talked about for a while now, I think its a real option if Chuck wins and doesnt retire.

To be fair though Red, lots of folk have looked poor against Anderson.

I hate to say it though, but, I feel that regardless of the result vs Tito, Chuck should retire. He's given the sport a lot, and will always be remembered as a great, I just don't see him being able to change his fighting style that much at this stage in his career. Unfortunately, in the latter stages of a fight, when you're tired, you revert to your natural style. I just see more of Chuck hitting the canvas.

I dont think Chuck is finished, Evans Shogun and Rampage KO'd him but they are the top 4 in his devision. Jardine scraped a win past him and thats a fight I see Chuck being able to avenge. I think if that fight was a 5 rounder Chuck would have won... He Beat Wanderlei as well. It was only 2 and a half years ago he held the title after all.]

Coleman hasnt held the title in a lot longer and he is still going strong.

If you look at the top 15 or 20 or so theres plently of guys Liddell would have a shot at beating and would make for an interesting fight...

These are the fights I think are winnable or worth his while.

Top 10:
Forrest Griffin, Liddells power and Forrest chin makes for an interesting fight
Thiago Silva, he isnt invinclible as the Machida KO showed
Rich Franklin, Rich is a lot smaller and doesnt have 1 punch KO power
Rashad Evans, as he was winning that figth right up till the KO!
---------------------
Top 15/20:
Luiz Cane, recently top 10 and just suffered a KO loss
Keith Jardine, Think he would win that rematch
Vladimir Matyushenko, could avoid the TD and batter him
Coleman, see above!

Thats the good fights for him, I see him as a big underdog against the likes of Evans and Griffin but its never unthinkable that he could hand that overhand and end the fight...

Bad figths would be...

Lil Nog
Brandon Vera
Jon Jones
Ryan Bader
Randy Couture

But theres sill a few interesting fights left for Chuck, Id watch him fight again and if he is shot theres still a fight at Kimboweight 215lbs against the only man at Kimboweigh!

For me though Ben, it's not about the quality of fighters that hacve beaten Chuck, more about the way that they've beaten him. His punch resistance has gone, agreed? If so, then he clearly has to change his game plan. I just question whether someone can change their style of fighting, this far into their career. I don't think that he can, and whilst I'd love to see Chuck winning fights, I cannot really see it.

I just have a disliking for watching legends fight on nfor too long (there are plenty of examples in boxing - Ali, Tyson, De La Hoya to name just three). I respect your opinion Ben, but, should Chuck face Thiago, Griffin or Evans, I know where my money would be. I just see a legend trying to hold on to their past glories for a little too long.

Yeah your 100% Pete its his punch resistance thats gone and that not going to change (at least I dont think it can!) If he just learns to keep his hands up he can avoid taking these big shots that have turned his lights out...

Anyway What about fighers that dont have 1 punch KO power, What about Rich Franklin? Both men beat Wanderlei in fairly close fights so that fight would make sence...

I dont like seeing Legends on their last legs either mate, It was sad to see Tyson go out the way he did but I think if Liddell wanted to take a slight drop in tallent I wouldnt mind him being a gatekeeper for the top 10 unless he keeps getting KO'd, then for the sake of his health Id like to see him retire.

You know your probabally right about a legend trying to hang on to past glories but Id like to see him loose to a guy who isnt top 4 ranked before I say he is done.

At this point Liddell is not a title contender. However he still has some left but adding some BJJ is not the be all end all of developing as a fighter. He needs to add more to his game in terms of training, look at how GSP and Lesner train and work to that level, cut out the partying for a while. Thats if he wants to continue and I would understand if he didn't, he is one of the greatest MMA fighters of our generation, if he wants a break I would understand.

Griffin and Randy are bad matchups. Griffin is probably bigger, Randy is probably bigger and both are better condiioned, if the escape the first two rounds and are still in it I think they would win.

Coleman would be an intresting fight, I think he could avoid his TDs and batter him on the feet. A fight between two legends and HOFers.

He could try to avenge the Jardine fight but after Jardine gets battered by Bader, he will be due a win so its a dangerous fight.

Top 10:
Forrest Griffin, Liddells power and Forrest chin makes for an interesting fight
Thiago Silva, he isnt invinclible as the Machida KO showed
Rich Franklin, Rich is a lot smaller and doesnt have 1 punch KO power
Rashad Evans, as he was winning that figth right up till the KO!
---------------------
Top 15/20:
Luiz Cane, recently top 10 and just suffered a KO loss
Keith Jardine, Think he would win that rematch
Vladimir Matyushenko, could avoid the TD and batter him
Coleman, see above!

Thats the good fights for him, I see him as a big underdog against the likes of Evans and Griffin but its never unthinkable that he could hand that overhand and end the fight...

Bad figths would be...

Lil Nog
Brandon Vera
Jon Jones
Ryan Bader
Randy Couture

I don't think he would do too well against Griffin, Evans or Franklin. All are better conditioned, Evans has a lot of power, Griffin just has a frantic pace and would throw loads of leg kicks and Franklin the same. If Franklin avoided the KO early he would pick Liddell apart and take the UD.

Agree with all the bad matchups, Lil Nog is too well rounded, Vera's leg kicks would kill him, Jones would flat out batter him as would Bader. He really does not need to tak e those fights against younger atheltes, the out come would be similar to when Hughes fought GSP and Alves. Randy would Batter him this time.

Id like to see Liddell fight Kimbo, big money and an easy win.

rudeboyben84 wrote:redmeanie77 how could Tito have won the last fight, he lost the last round 10-8. And they won a round each before that... even if you wanted to give Tito the 1st 2 rounds which I dont see its still a draw. Judges rarely have the confidence to score a round 10-8 but if the last round of Tito vs Forrest 2 wasnt a 10-8 I dont know what is! So Tito drew at best, to give him a win when he was done by the 3rd would be crazy.

Anyway I dont see him fighting Couture. He trains under him and unless it comes down to them both in each others way for a title shot I dont think the fight will happen.

Liddell and Forrest has been talked about for a while now, I think its a real option if Chuck wins and doesnt retire.

The Judges scorecard made no sense at all, one judge gave it 30-27?? I think 2 judges gave the second round to Forrest, the round where Tito took him down twice and split him open with Gnp, maybe the last was 10-8 to Forrest but like you said Judges are reluctant to give 10-8 unless you get mauled by Lesnar for 5 mins or do a Kalib starnes....
Anyway no jugde gave it a 10-8 i dont think.

Anyway judging has been a joke in the latter part of this year, did you hear one of the judges in Machida-Shogun fight (not Cecil) said he had his view obstructed during one of the rounds and said after watching the fight on TV he thought Shogun won the fight.

I will try to find the link.


Edit: Found it

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-judging122609&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

I understand what you're saying Ben, and I suppose you could view it as - If a man that has given so much to MMA wants to continue, then who are we to say he shouldn't, and I do agree that there are opponents out there, that Chuck could beat, a fight against someone outside the top 5 or 6 would certainly tell us a lot more. And sorry Red, but I agree with Ben, I don't see how Tito could have been called the winner @ UFC106, IMO Griffin 1st rd, Tito 2nd, but Griffin was utterly dominant in the last round.

I scored that a draw personally. Tito won the first two rounds 10-9 and just gave it 10-8 to Griffin. The thing is, if that was a 10-8 what was the first round of Sanchez vs Guida? 10-2? Did Griffin even drop Tito once?

i agree with chelsea, Forrest out struck him by huge margins in that round, but never was he close to finishing him.

Id love to see Compubox stats for that round, im sure theyd confirm a 10-8! I know what you mean it wasnt a round were he dropped or rocked him but Tito doesnt really get dropped or rocked that often! His head is the size of Valuevs!! I dont think a fighter being tough should put any doubt over a 10-8 round after all its not boxing, in MMA weve seen fighters dropped and not loose the round 10-8. Outclassing someone like that for 5 mins should be 10-8 regardless of how rocked or damaged your opponent is.

Can there be a 10-7 in MMA without a point deduction?

I remember Rogan saying after the first round of Mir-Nog he thought that was a 10-7 round. It is probably possible to have 10-7 but Judges are so leenient to use 10-8 that 10-7 just never happen.

I would like to see judges score close rounds a draw if their is no clear winner, and if a guy gets dominated it should be 10-8.

It just seems that everything is 10-9, whether it is an extremely close round where nothing major happens in the round or if its a dominant performance by a fighter who lands effective strikes, takedowns ..... etc.


Judges scoring needs to be changed

Your 100% mate that would fix MMA scoring, If you go out Dropping you opponent multiple times and dont finish 10-7 is fair, Rare to see but thats a good case for a 10-7 and ive seen others. 10-8 are far to rarely given and Draws in rounds arent either

Current Scoring has too much room for error. If Judges were encouraged to use Draw and 10-8 more it makes more room for more accurate scoring. Tito vs Forrest 1st round to Forrest or a draw and 2nd to Tito I think, That was it I think or the other way around. Anyway which ever way Tito is even or a point ahead, Forrest Dominates the last round Tito is sepnt and takes a schooling. The Result of the figth almost hangs on wether the Judges have been confident enough to score things Draws or 10-8's and I think MMA judges are in general incompitent, Ive no faith in them!

Maybe it is a pointless fight, neither will be going anywhere far after. The point is, good fights don't have to involve title contenders, and Tito/Liddell will always bring in the crowds and should be a good fight.

My prediction? Regardless of Tito's performances of late, this is a step too far for Liddell. Ortiz to win by unanimous decision after a long competitive fight

I thought Ellenberger vs Condit was a draw. 10-8 first round to Jake, and rounds 2 and 3 10-9 to Condit.

Wasn't one of the rounds in Alvarez vs Hellboy 10-7? He dropped him like 8 times. I think also Foster vs Larson was a 10-7 round, not sure why judges are so lenieant on 10-8 rounds and draws.

How many strikes did Tito land in last round, does anyone know? I think it was something quite low like 5 but remember Sanchez landed a grand total of 8 in his fight with BJ. He seriously could have lost every round 10-8 making the final score 50-40.

At first I actually thought Houstan vs Kimbo was a draw as well, Kimbo 10-8 in the second and Houstan 10-9 the others. Houstan def won the last round but he did fuck all in the first so I suppose a Kimbo win was fair enough.

Has there ever been a 10-0 round?