THE ARMBAR

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

The Armbar is a virtual meeting ground for all MMA fans to log on, read up and discuss all the latest MMA news


+5
Mryzyz
The_Axe_Emperor
Sheldan
superman_punch
payneNglory1
9 posters

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    payneNglory1
    payneNglory1
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 4621
    Join date : 2009-08-29
    Age : 46
    Location : North Carolina

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  payneNglory1 Sun Feb 20, 2011 10:45 pm












    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' H

    t's not often Fedor Emelianenko and Miguel Torres are talked about in the same conversation.

    Fedor is a soft-spoken 230-pound heavyweight from the heart of Russia. Torres is a 135-pound Mexican-American bantamweight living in the shadow of Chicago, and a few glances at his Twitter feed shows he's far from shy. Physical and social equals, they are not.

    Fedor has been synonymous with the sport of mixed martial arts for years – so much so that he needs only one name. But only in the last three years did Torres get widespread recognition.

    There was a time two years ago when Fedor was at the top of most pound-for-pound discussions, and Torres himself had entered the top-5 mix. But beyond that, the two had little reason to be mentioned together.

    But they might be more alike than most people think. Torres believes the similarities are there – and he believes Fedor, following back-to-back losses for the first time in his career, needs to do just what he did last year after suffering a similar, formerly unthinkable skid: Pack the bags and change things up, or he'll only have himself to blame.

    "He's at a crossroads in his life," Torres told MMA Fighting last week. "(He's been) dominating his division, plus the popularity, exposure and everything that comes with being The Man, a showman, a father, representing a country and people – and being a fighter.

    "He needs to adjust to the times and start working on being a cerebral fighter (again) and not a showman. He needs to play catch-up in a world he used to dominate. That stings really bad, but you man up or get left behind."

    For nearly 10 years, Torres dominated the lighter weight classes of the sport, and was doing so long before there was a WEC home for smaller fighters. He started his career 20-0 – and 32-0 if you count a dozen off-the-books fights, taking on whomever the "promoters" would match him up against in barrooms around Northwest Indiana.

    His first loss came after an 18-month layoff from a knee injury – a fight he has said he wasn't yet ready for, but couldn't wait to get back to work. He regrouped, went on a tear of more than five years and 17 straight wins, and avenged his loss to Ryan Ackerman by breaking his arm and chasing him from the sport.

    Though Torres wasn't beating the same caliber "name" fighters as Fedor during that same time period in Pride, it was largely because the bantamweight division wasn't on the map yet. Torres helped put it there when he signed with the WEC and quickly became its 135-pound champion. He even had some, including former UFC heavyweight champ Frank Mir, saying he was the best in the world. Yes, even better than Fedor.

    Torres defended his WEC bantamweight strap three times after winning it, and he did it all by training himself at his own gym in Hammond, Ind. He would make occasional treks elsewhere to learn new techniques, and he'd bring in other pros to work with him. But mostly he ran his own show the way he always had – much like Fedor.

    Then he got caught by Brian Bowles, the first knockout of his career. He thought he learned a lesson about being over-aggressive. But against Joseph Benavidez, he got more than just caught. He got beaten, soundly, and he got the message.

    Torres regrouped, packed his bags and got out of his comfort zone. He moved to Montreal for his next camp, living in Firas Zahabi's basement while training at Tristar Gym for Charlie Valencia. For the first time, Torres was working with a head coach that wasn't himself. He submitted Valencia in the second round and followed that up with a dominating standup performance against Antonio Banuelos two weeks ago. He'll return to Montreal in April to begin preparations for the next step on his comeback trail, Brad Pickett at UFC 130. He says working with Zahabi has rejuvenated and refocused his career.

    Much like Torres' only loss in a 10-year stretch coming with an asterisk, Fedor's only loss before his recent fall came in the fifth fight of his career – and it was from a cut. The cut came from an illegal elbow, but because it was a tournament, Fedor had to take the loss when the fight was stopped. But for 10 years, he dominated everyone in his path.

    And he did it, like Torres, using the same training methods that had come to work for him for so long. Nothing was broken, so why fix it? He stayed home in Russia, going to Japan when it was time for his fights in Rings or Pride. There was no need to alter the program.

    Then he got caught last June by Fabricio Werdum, jumping into his guard and a triangle-armbar combination. He tapped out for the first time. Like Torres' first loss after years of domination, it was assumed Fedor just got caught. He wouldn't make that mistake again, he said, but "everybody loses – I'm just a human being."

    Against Antonio Silva last week, like Torres against Benavidez, he got more than caught. He got beaten down, his right eye sealed shut, forcing the doctor to stop the fight for a second straight loss – unthinkable just a year ago.

    The question is, will Fedor get the same kind of message Torres got? Will he change up his training to get back on track, an acknowledgment that perhaps the sport is rapidly changing and he could benefit from outside coaching help? Or will he stay in Russia, in his comfort zone?

    Torres said Fedor needs to experience training somewhere else – the way he did.

    "I say yes, (he needs to leave)," Torres said. "Russia will always be his home, but he lacks growth. Sometimes loyalty can hold you back."

    Torres said when he left his longtime Northwest Indiana training home, it wasn't well received in the community he had become a fixture in.

    "I left to find growth – and everyone hates me for it, saying I'm a deserter and forgot where I came from," Torres said. "Even now, with my new style, people say I'm scared or not exciting. When I was training here, I didn't give a (care) and fought for the fans. When I lost, everyone threw (crap) on me saying I was nobody. My new style is actually cerebral and smart. I don't get hurt anymore, but lost fans. When I get the belt back, they will (love me) again, but I won't care. I'm all grown up."

    But the bottom line, as Torres sees it, is Fedor must do what's best for him and his fighting career, not the people around him, not Russia, not the fans. That's his best shot at a return to glory.

    "When you man up, people will critique you and hate you for leaving, call you names and judge you for doing what's good for you," Torres said. "I feel Fedor's situation. It (freaking) sucks, but (crap) happens. All we can do is get better – and (screw) everyone else."
    superman_punch
    superman_punch
    Lightweight
    Lightweight


    Posts : 308
    Join date : 2011-01-25
    Location : Leeds UK

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  superman_punch Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:13 pm

    Miguel Torres should graduate high school before telling fedor to man up. The AC Slater impersonator!!!

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Ac-slater
    Sheldan
    Sheldan
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 1570
    Join date : 2010-10-03
    Age : 31
    Location : Manchester

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  Sheldan Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:56 am

    superman_punch wrote:Miguel Torres should graduate high school before telling fedor to man up. The AC Slater impersonator!!!

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Ac-slater

    Great shout haha, along with Mowgli off Jungle Book that is a great spot for A Torres lookalike.

    But yeah, Torres needs to pipe down, he can hardly talk he's always bitching saying he has won a lot more fights then he is credited for saying he was fighting before there was even databases.

    Fedor > Torres
    The_Axe_Emperor
    The_Axe_Emperor
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 2071
    Join date : 2010-04-29
    Age : 30
    Location : Northamptonshire

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Mon Feb 21, 2011 1:49 am

    You two need to look at the bigger picture, Torres of two fights ago and Fedor of now have alot in common; both on massive win-streaks, both seemingly ahead of their time, both seemingly unbeatable. Torres could actually teach Fedor how to cope with two straight losses after such a lengthy domination.

    This would be the case of course, if Fedor was younger, but i personally think retirement is the next step for him.
    Sheldan
    Sheldan
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 1570
    Join date : 2010-10-03
    Age : 31
    Location : Manchester

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  Sheldan Mon Feb 21, 2011 2:09 am

    The_Axe_Emperor wrote:You two need to look at the bigger picture, Torres of two fights ago and Fedor of now have alot in common; both on massive win-streaks, both seemingly ahead of their time, both seemingly unbeatable. Torres could actually teach Fedor how to cope with two straight losses after such a lengthy domination.

    This would be the case of course, if Fedor was younger, but i personally think retirement is the next step for him.

    I don't think you can really compare Fedor and Torres. Yes they were both on big win streaks, but Torres' win streak was nothing compared to what Fedor's was. Fedor was at the spearhead of Pride all the way through it's existance, pretty much wiping out all the top heavyweights in the world. Fighting a lot of non-worthy opponents as well, but nontheless when he came up against the best, he beat them. Torres beat maybe 1 or 2 opponents who were ranked top 10 while he was bantamweight champion, and then recieved back to back losses from opponents he was expected to beat. Torres was heavily over hyped, he's a great fighting i'm not denying that, but for him to tell Fedor to man up because he was able to come back from back to back losses with wins over guys who arguably aren't even top 10 ranked, well he needs to learn some respect.
    payneNglory1
    payneNglory1
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 4621
    Join date : 2009-08-29
    Age : 46
    Location : North Carolina

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  payneNglory1 Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:17 pm














    I think he's spot on personally,fans have been worried and saying the same about fedor and his training methods for a good while now.

    At no time in that interview do i think Torres showed any disrespect towards fedor,if anything I came away after reading it with the feeling Torres has nothing but respect for Fedor.

    It's a good interview from a fighter that be it at a differant weight class,against differant opposition,shares alot of similarities with Fedor and his current plight,He can sympathize and offer opinion,because he's been through it and had to man up himself to find a solution that has helped him get past it and move forward successfully,so he's just sharing it,nothing more.

    Does anyone actually disagree with Torres and think Fedor would be better off staying where he is and continuing with the exact same training that has got him this far,and there wouldn't be any benefit from say, training with Nog and the Black house boys for a while or spending a couple of months with AKA or Greg jacksons camp to work on things.

    I personally think that if he's to continue and has hopes of regaining his position as the best HW on the planet,then he needs to move with the times and take advantage of the vast amount of knowledge,training and training partners that is now available to these fighters to learn from.(plus it would be good for him to spread his knowledge and experiances to the next gen of fighters)

    I love Fedor,he's a great fighter but I don't understand why people automaticly attack and act butthurt when the slightest bit of,in this case IMO constructive critasism is aimed towards him.
    Mryzyz
    Mryzyz
    Welterweight
    Welterweight


    Posts : 788
    Join date : 2011-01-24

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  Mryzyz Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:19 pm

    So paying some bald canadian dude $40'000 to make you tread water for ages and teach you how to win without taking risks, then sitting in a sauna in a bin bag and taking laxatives is 'manning up'

    Huh.

    Albion_Oakley
    Albion_Oakley
    Welterweight
    Welterweight


    Posts : 543
    Join date : 2009-08-24

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  Albion_Oakley Mon Feb 21, 2011 9:38 pm

    Mryzyz wrote:So paying some bald canadian dude $40'000 to make you tread water for ages and teach you how to win without taking risks, then sitting in a sauna in a bin bag and taking laxatives is 'manning up'

    Huh.


    LOL
    payneNglory1
    payneNglory1
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 4621
    Join date : 2009-08-29
    Age : 46
    Location : North Carolina

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  payneNglory1 Mon Feb 21, 2011 10:58 pm










    Rolling Eyes



    How you handle a loss or rough patch in your life and how you act,and if you can do something positive to change it,is what I'd define as manning up.

    Torres took a hard look at himself,admitted to his faults,owned them and worked hard to change them,he must of felt unstoppable for such a long time,so admitting that your way may not of been the best way must of been hard,but he's put that aside and is making the necessary adjustments,moving with the times and finding out if there are better ways to do things,even though his way brought him a ton of success in the past.

    He's moved out of his comfort zone and not is afraid to try new things,he's being open and willing to learn off others,he packed up his things and took a huge step into the unknown,making the move to train with better fighters,taking and using advice and having a solid team to plan out his training,nutrition and fight tactics.

    Look at some good fighters in the past that couldn't do it,like Naz and look what happened to there careers once they suffered a big loss and found out that they weren't unstoppable,that's a perfect example for me of a guy that couldn't man up and make the necessary changes to get back on track.


    This using the "taking less risk" as a criticism is a stupid statement,he's fighting to win and he didn't look boring in either of his fights since he teamed up with Tri star,he looked improved and a better fighter for it.
    He fought a perfect smart fight against Banuelos,Banuelos was the one that decided to buzz around in Torres range for 14.40 mins allowing himself to get picked off all fight with jabs and straight rights,Torres just did an intelligent solid job of winning and before that he looked good against Valencia and even finished him with a sub of the night award,what more do you expect from him.

    As for the treading water,sauna and finding out what are the best laxatives to clean yourself out daft statement,if that's all Zahabi and his tri star team are teaching the likes of GSP,Jon Jones etc,then I'd say it seems to work and is money well spent Wink



    ChelseaQuinsfan
    ChelseaQuinsfan
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 3314
    Join date : 2009-08-16

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:26 pm

    I'm not sure why people are getting annoyed at this. His statement makes perfect sense. He was in exactly the same situation as Fedor is now and reacted well. This has happened to so many fighters over the years. It's all about how you react to a loss. Look at how GSP reacted to the Serra loss, you might say he's a boring fighter now or whatever but the fact remains he became the best WW today, possibly of all time already and for many people is the number one P4P fighter in the world. Look at how Cro Cop reacted. He didn't and he hasn't even shown a hint of how he was in 2006.

    All Torres is saying is that the game is evolving, and Fedor hasn't evolved with it. He's not saying Fedor needs to come train with Firas exactly, he said he needs to update his training, which based on his last fight is clearly evident. Everyone gets caught, that's what happened in the Werdum fight but against Silva, he was dominated.

    Nothing wrong at all with what Torres said.
    Cowboys From Hell
    Cowboys From Hell
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 1270
    Join date : 2011-01-19
    Age : 41
    Location : Dismantling the Sir Audley Harrison War Wagon, (With tears in my eyes) ***Now Back In Business !***

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  Cowboys From Hell Tue Feb 22, 2011 12:55 pm

    You can see where Torres Is coming from and he has made some great point's and obviously has experienced a very similar experience (BTW I'm not going to compare Torres "record" as a comparison) a change of scenery might be best for Fedor or at least a change in sparring partners.
    manschesthair_utd
    manschesthair_utd
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 3763
    Join date : 2009-08-15
    Age : 112
    Location : Singapore

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  manschesthair_utd Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:28 pm

    "man up"


    yeah whatever... Rolling Eyes
    payneNglory1
    payneNglory1
    Middleweight
    Middleweight


    Posts : 4621
    Join date : 2009-08-29
    Age : 46
    Location : North Carolina

    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  payneNglory1 Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:42 pm















    Evgeni Kogan:

    I think it likely that (Fedor Emelianenko) comes to train in Holland, and that training/sparring partners from the US are flown in

    http://twitter.com/evgenikogan

    Sponsored content


    Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind' Empty Re: Miguel Torres: Fedor Should 'Man Up or Get Left Behind'

    Post  Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Sun Apr 28, 2024 7:09 am