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Jon Fitch didn't expect to find himself in a fight with two-time champion BJ Penn, but he's thrilled to get the chance
"This is my second opportunity to fight a legend," says Fitch, the No. 2 welterweight in the USA TODAY/SB Nation consensus rankings. "You've got to beat a legend to become a legend, so this is a great opportunity for that."
In the immediate aftermath of Penn's 21-second disposal of Matt Hughes this past weekend, Ultimate Fighting Championship President Dana White announced a bout between Penn and Fitch, set for February in Australia's largest city, Sydney.
The fight takes the place of a previously planned showdown with Jake Ellenburger, but it still leaves Fitch outside the title picture, while Jake Shields awaits the winner of next month's title fight between Georges St. Pierre and Josh Koscheck, Fitch's teammate at American Kickboxing Academy in San Jose.
At least Penn's lofty reputation makes a fight with him the next best thing besides a championship fight, Fitch says. Less than 24 hours after the Penn bout was announced, Fitch spoke to USA TODAY about the match-up and his desire to win a title belt. Excerpts from the conversation:
Q: When did you learn you'd be fighting BJ?
Fitch: (UFC matchmaker) Joe Silva had (AKA manager) Crazy Bob (Cook) call me last night right before the press conference, to see if we would accept the fight, and we said yes, so Dana was able to announce it that quickly.
How surprised were you to get the offer?
I'm pretty surprised. I already had a fight signed and ready to go. It's not very often that they switch up opponents like that unless there's an injury or something like that.
I'm surprised that they switched opponents, but I'm glad they did. I think it's an awesome match-up, I think it's an awesome fight, I think the fans are going to be very happy about this.
I'm very happy to get a chance to headline a card.
What's the appeal of fighting BJ?
BJ's a legend. He is. He's been around for so long and everybody knows who BJ is.
This is my, I guess, second opportunity to fight a legend. GSP was probably the first one. You've got to beat a legend to become a legend, so this is a great opportunity for that.
Regardless of where I think I should be and where everybody thinks I should be, and where I am, are two different things. I'm not getting a title shot, so I need to be fighting the next best opponent, and right now it looks like BJ's the next best opponent.
What did you think of the latest fight with Hughes?
Hughes made a mistake and he caught him. It was very fast. BJ's very, very technical and very powerful with his hands. Hughes kind of was lazy with his left hand and dropped his left hand and got caught with the overhand right. It happens.
What's the difference between fighting Hughes and fighting you?
I think I blend my stand-up with my wrestling much better than Matt does. I think my transitions, in between my jiu-jitsu to wrestling, and my striking to wrestling, are a little bit smoother than his are.
One of our readers suggested that fighting BJ would be a step back for you, since you're already widely viewed as a top contender for the title. How much would you agree with that?
I'm just going to keep fighting hard, keep training hard and put my best performances out there.
The best of Jon Fitch is yet to come. I feel like I have a lot more I can open up with and do a lot more in my fights. I'm going to become a better fighter to make it undeniable that I deserve the title shot.
Some folks have suggested that UFC is giving you the runaround, as far as a title shot goes. Do you think so?
As long as I'm getting tough fights, I guess I'll be happy. You can't keep being denied forever. As long as I keep getting the top guys to fight, and keep improving, my day will come.
I understand the situation they're in. They're selling fights. They're in the market of selling fights, the business of selling fights. They're trying to expand their market.
Jake Shields has a lot of weight because he's a Strikeforce champ, 170/185. He brings in a whole group of viewership. I understand the fight. I understand the match-up. I understand why they want to throw him in there in a title shot first.
So I'm not going to be a little crybaby about it. I understand that's business, and I also understand I needed to open up and elevate myself as a fighter, my game as a fighter, in order to there not be a question that I'm more marketable and I'm going to make them more money than bringing in someone else like Jake Shields.
How does BJ fit into that equation?
BJ's a legend. He's a big name, big hype. He's got a whole island (backing) him. There's going to be a whole lot of noise about this fight, just because he's involved.
Back in the early days of his MMA career, BJ trained at American Kickboxing Academy. A lot of time has passed since then, but nonetheless, how much of advantage you think you'll have with coaches that are at least familiar wth BJ's physical abilities?
A lot of people around me know BJ really well, and have trained with BJ and helped BJ train, so I've always had insights on him as a person, and how he fights, and how he trains, and how his technique goes, and the things that he looks for. So I do have a little bit of an inside advantage in the fight, I think.
What makes BJ so effective as a fighter?
He's got a lot of natural abilities, with flexibility and strength or whatever, but it really comes down to his spirit, his warrior spirit, and the fact that he always comes to fight. That always puts him in every fight. That makes him dangerous. He's BJ Penn; he always brings that with him.
Do you think there's a natural storyline because of the past association between BJ and AKA, or has too much time passed?
Maybe too much time has passed. I don't know.
We all have professional-type friendships. We all speak on good terms and talk. BJ and (AKA grappling trainer) Dave (Camarillo) are old friends. There's no bad blood between us in any way whatsoever.
It's a fight, and may the best man win.
You mentioned his unique physical characteristics, such as balance and flexibility. How do you replicate what BJ does?
You can't. You can't really replicate what BJ can do. You can only take pieces of what he does. There's only one BJ Penn.
It's not just his flexibility and balance. Most people who are that flexible don't have strength. He's got a ridiculous amount of strength for his size and flexibility. He gets into positions that he shouldn't have strength at, such as your legs folded up into your butt, and he's still able to kick away and push away with a lot of power. Most guys can't do that.
But what you do is, you try to get people who replicate certain areas where he's good at, and keep putting yourself in those situations over and over and over again. That can help you prepare for somebody who's like BJ Penn.
Speaking of positions, earlier this year you said that the closed-guard game is dead. BJ in the past has worked from closed guard quite a bit. Do you think you'll see that if you get him down to the ground?
I'm not saying that people don't still try it, using the closed guard and then trying to work high guard. But I think it's very counterproductive. You spend lot of time on your back, flat against the ground, taking punishment; taking elbows, punches, knees to the body.
Just over time, it's very easy to avoid submissions. … It's easy to bunch your shoulders back inside, pulling arms out, getting away from the triangle and armbars, and then doing damage and controlling top. The bottom guy just takes damage and wears himself out over time, or gasses his legs out even, trying to hold the guard position.
If you keep an active guard, an open guard, you're more mobile. You're more active in trying to get up to your feet, or you're moving and trying to sweep more. And as guys follow you or try to hold you down or keep you down, then they open themselves up to submissions. Then it's when you can roll into your armbar or triangle, or just stand up to your feet and get back to work with your hands.
So what are the chances that you'll see that open, active guard from BJ?
I don't know. It depends. Not everybody's bought into that mindset. Some people still think that closed guard on your back is the end-all, be-all position to be in in a fight.
It's just my philosophy is much different. Camarillo jiujitsu and guerrilla jiujitsu has a much different mindset when it comes to those positions.
I wanted to ask you about Dave Camarillo, since he and BJ used to work quite a bit together back in the day.
But you know, it's that thing. It's not a matter of friendships that make fighters uncomfortable with fighting each other. It's the team thing, the team aspect. … It's not a friend issue when we say me and Koscheck won't fight.
It's a business decision. It's bad business for our team to have teammates fight each other.
We're professionals. We know what our job is. Like Jake Shields is a friend of mine, but we've known from day one that there's a good chance we would end up fighting.
Dana White believes BJ looks better at welterweight than lightweight. How much would you agree with that?
It just depends. How many of BJ's fights at welterweight have not been Matt Hughes? He's fought two guys.
You don't really know. BJ's a great fighter, but you don't know, it could be a match-up thing where he just matches up really well against Matt Hughes.
He's had, what, five fights at welterweight? But against two guys.
Georges St. Pierre dominated BJ by outwrestling him. Some folks might say that you're a great wrestler, therefore you should beat BJ. How much would you agree with that basic analysis?
You can also make the argument that BJ's awesome at jiujitsu and he's going to use jiujitsu to beat Jon Fitch. It's not about what we're good at, it's about what we're good at and what we're able to implement against our opponent that night.
I'm good at wrestling. If I'm able to utilize my wrestling skills to put BJ in disadvantageous positions when I fight, then I'm going to do that.
Is there a lot of similarity between the way you wrestle and the way GSP wrestles?
A little bit, but not really. We both kind of have a way of getting in without taking damage from our opponents, but I think we use different techniques to finish, kind of.
To finish the takedown?
Yeah.
I read that you recently had an epiphany about being a more exciting and entertaining fighter...
I didn't have an epiphany about being exciting. I had an epiphany about needing to elevate, to evolve my game to another level, to where it convinces everybody out there in the fight world that I am undeniably the (top) contender and deserve a title shot.
That's a big difference from going out there and just trying to be exciting.
Elevate and evolve. It just means more. More of what I'm already doing to break and wear my opponents down. To finish them. To get me to that point where there's no doubt that I not just dominated, but disposed of my opponent.
So are you saying you need to finish people off more?
Yeah. I basically feel like I haven't done the appropriate job of putting the exclamation point at the end of my sentences.
I take that as a personal challenge to myself, because as a martial artist, I need to be evolving and getting better. If I keep winning fights the same way, I don't see myself as evolving. If we're not evolving in martial arts, then we're dead.
What do you think has been holding you back from getting those finishes?
A lot of it could be the training style. I've been changing things up since the last fight, just approaching things with a different mentality toward certain parts of training.
(I'm) experimenting and trying some new things. The little bit of time off has been good for me, so I've had some laboratory time, kind of. I think I'm onto what I need, and I'm planning on showing it from now on in my future fights.
It's a more refined Jon Fitch. Refining my grinding style to a point where it's more open, more damaging, more finishing.
Does that open you up to more risk?
I think part of it is having the confidence in my other abilities. I think sometimes you're not aware of how able you are to control a situation or position, and still do damage.
When's your documentary going to be released?
We're still working on that, because we did not get the footage cleared from the UFC. We actually have to go back and the footage has to be cut. Two minutes of footage has to be cut.
We have to redo the sound and the editing minus the two minutes of footage. It could be a little while, because they have to raise more money to get that done.
What reason did UFC give for not releasing the footage?
No reason.
Were you surprised?
No, I wasn't. (chuckles)
If other guys keep getting title shots, would you be happy just fighting one big name after another, like a BJ Penn or a Matt Hughes?
No, I really want the belt. I want a belt. That's why we're in this game.
I don't want to be the Dan Marino of MMA. (chuckles) "Oh yeah, he was a great fighter, but he never won the belt." I want the belt.
If I keep getting skipped over at 170 and if I have to move up to 185, then I will. Whatever it takes to me get in line for a title shot.
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