"Too much wrestling in UFC" - Dan Hardy.

I agree with the saved by the bell thing from a sub, but not the knock down. Some guys just have better chins. Not everyone is Dan Henderson. Some people take a big shot and will immediately drop to the ground rather than try to regain their equilibrium and risk getting smashed. And since there's no count obviously, it's unfair to give the round 10-8. Especially since a guy could be getting his ass handed to him, land one big punch, knock his opponent down, then follow him to the ground and proceed to get schooled down there. In no way do they deserve anything other than losing the round 10-9.

Octagon control should play no part in the scoring. it's a joke. It should be replaced by attempting to finish the fight, which is different to aggression. GSP for example, is an aggressive fighter, he just never tries to finish fights.

"effective striking" is nonsense as well. If you throw 5 punches at me, and land 4 of them with 2 rocking me, and i throw 20 punches at you, land 8 but 3 of them rock you. The you've been more affective but i've done more damage.

Octagon control should play no part in the scoring. it's a joke. It should be replaced by attempting to finish the fight, which is different to aggression. GSP for example, is an aggressive fighter, he just never tries to finish fights.

I agree OC is a farce but the rest of what you said is garbage. GSP isn't a very agressive fighter at all, he's actually calm and extremly risk-free but he ALWAYS tries to finish the fights.

Do you actually know what aggression is?? Being an aggressive person, such as Wanderlei, and fighting aggressively are completely different things.

GSP is ALWAYS going forward, always looking for a take-down. That's aggression.

He doesn't always try and finish fights, hence he doesn't finish fights. Last person he actually finished was Serra. 2 and a half years ago.

Anfields5thKing wrote:Do you actually know what aggression is?? Being an aggressive person, such as Wanderlei, and fighting aggressively are completely different things.

GSP is ALWAYS going forward, always looking for a take-down. That's aggression.

He doesn't always try and finish fights, hence he doesn't finish fights. Last person he actually finished was Serra. 2 and a half years ago.

So what was the armbar and kimura attempts against Hardy? And the domination and near-finishes against Fitch?

Ok that makes more sense but I still disagree about him finishing fights. You say Serra was 2 and a half years ago but at the same time it was only 4 fights ago. Not only that but he did finish BJ. Maybe BJ quit, maybe his brother threw the towel (which I know happened) but it was still a finish and it counts as such. Did you see BJ? He could barely stand up right and he took a hell of a battering.

And ye he has had more problems finishing guys recently but he has tried and most people know that. You really think he didn't try and finish against Fitch? Battered him from start to finish and if he was more aggressive then he would have.

Same with Alves up and till he strained or tore his groin (whatever) and with Hardy. The problem in those fights where his BJJ which was quite poor. He should have finished Alves with a RnC and should have finished Hardy with the armbar/kimura but he applied it poorly and didn't go after it aggressively enough like some like Aoki would have. All the problems are technical mistakes, but he was still TRYING to finish the fight.

I don't know where these problems with GSP's BJJ have come from anyway, it looked great against Hughes but it hasn't reached that level since. Don't know if he changed trainers or what but there is a clear difference.

knockdowns should not be an automatic 10-8.

guys like Nog and Werdum are incredibly easy to knock down...because they want to be on thier back!!

Agreed, sort of though. For example all the Knockdowns in the Silva vs Griffin fight should be 10-8 round (if that round had finished ofc)

good example Chelski, if you were scoring it boxing style, that would have been about 10-5.

On GSP. He never would have finished BJ if it hadn't been for JD pulling him out of it. BJ was taking a beating but he was still able to fight. That fight still has a giant asterix because of the greasing as well.

He was never going to finish Thiago who took little or no damage. He took more damage from Fitch.

If you lie on top of someone for 25 minutes and continuously slap them they will end up in a lot of pain but it's not trying to finish a fight.

Two awful sub attempts in 25 minutes against Hardy is awful for such a one-sided fight.

And his BJJ skills against Hughes were more to do with Hughes being in an awful patch of form. It was a slick armbar, but compare it to the armbar Hughes got on GSP in the first fight. Not as good and Hughes has very basic BJJ.

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:Do you actually know what aggression is?? Being an aggressive person, such as Wanderlei, and fighting aggressively are completely different things.

GSP is ALWAYS going forward, always looking for a take-down. That's aggression.

He doesn't always try and finish fights, hence he doesn't finish fights. Last person he actually finished was Serra. 2 and a half years ago.

So what was the armbar and kimura attempts against Hardy? And the domination and near-finishes against Fitch?

Near finishes?? not being able to finish someone who's barely fighting back over 25 minutes shows a clear lack of finishing ability/will.

Sub attempts against Hardy were shocking and two poor attempts in 25 minutes is not attempting to finish the fight. If you are on top of someone with such a basic ground game for that long and have ANY level of BJJ you will get a minimum of 4 clear sub attempts. Hardy gave up his arm both times.

The greasing will always comeback in that fight but there was a clear vid showing the grease being wiped off with a towel. using vaseline is actually a quite common breathing technique, and my team mates used to use it all the time during rugby games.

BJ was just to proud to know he was finished, BJ would never quit but he was done.

For the first three rounds he did try hard to finish. There was that RnC which he couldn't finish because Alves is so big and he had some good GnP as well. He landed a few good shots and one judge scored it 10-8 I think. He didn't take more damage against Fitch but even if he did, that Alves was a LOT worse than the one who faced GSP.

It was more than two, he went for a knee bar near the end of the fight and at some point he went for an arm-triangle (I think). He also spent the majority of the second round standing.

Near finishes?? not being able to finish someone who's barely fighting back over 25 minutes shows a clear lack of finishing ability/will

Right now I think its a little bit of both, its clear to me he's trying to finish the fight but he can't seem to pull it off. That kimura he had on Hardy was locked in, and Hardy was in pain but GSP couldn't finish. He should have wrenched it till his arm broke if need be but I don't think GSP has that AOki-like killer instinct.

Anfields5thKing wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:Do you actually know what aggression is?? Being an aggressive person, such as Wanderlei, and fighting aggressively are completely different things.

GSP is ALWAYS going forward, always looking for a take-down. That's aggression.

He doesn't always try and finish fights, hence he doesn't finish fights. Last person he actually finished was Serra. 2 and a half years ago.

So what was the armbar and kimura attempts against Hardy? And the domination and near-finishes against Fitch?

Near finishes?? not being able to finish someone who's barely fighting back over 25 minutes shows a clear lack of finishing ability/will.

Sub attempts against Hardy were shocking and two poor attempts in 25 minutes is not attempting to finish the fight. If you are on top of someone with such a basic ground game for that long and have ANY level of BJJ you will get a minimum of 4 clear sub attempts. Hardy gave up his arm both times.

Doesn't matter if they were shocking attempts, he was still at least TRYING to finish the fight.


You're either accusing him of not TRYING to finish fights (which he clearly DOES) or you're accusing him of not having good enough BJJ, which is fair enough... but you can't accuse him of both.

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:Do you actually know what aggression is?? Being an aggressive person, such as Wanderlei, and fighting aggressively are completely different things.

GSP is ALWAYS going forward, always looking for a take-down. That's aggression.

He doesn't always try and finish fights, hence he doesn't finish fights. Last person he actually finished was Serra. 2 and a half years ago.

So what was the armbar and kimura attempts against Hardy? And the domination and near-finishes against Fitch?

Near finishes?? not being able to finish someone who's barely fighting back over 25 minutes shows a clear lack of finishing ability/will.

Sub attempts against Hardy were shocking and two poor attempts in 25 minutes is not attempting to finish the fight. If you are on top of someone with such a basic ground game for that long and have ANY level of BJJ you will get a minimum of 4 clear sub attempts. Hardy gave up his arm both times.

Doesn't matter if they were shocking attempts, he was still at least TRYING to finish the fight.


You're either accusing him of not TRYING to finish fights (which he clearly DOES) or you're accusing him of not having good enough BJJ, which is fair enough... but you can't accuse him of both.

Being handed 2 blatant submissions over 25 minutes is not the same as actively trying to finish a fight. Look at Bones Jones when he gets top control. THAT is trying to finish a fight.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:The greasing will always comeback in that fight but there was a clear vid showing the grease being wiped off with a towel. using vaseline is actually a quite common breathing technique, and my team mates used to use it all the time during rugby games.

BJ was just to proud to know he was finished, BJ would never quit but he was done.

For the first three rounds he did try hard to finish. There was that RnC which he couldn't finish because Alves is so big and he had some good GnP as well. He landed a few good shots and one judge scored it 10-8 I think. He didn't take more damage against Fitch but even if he did, that Alves was a LOT worse than the one who faced GSP.

If you are on top of someone for an entire round you will always get a 10-8, Alves was never in danger and took very little punishment. And yes he did take more damage, i've spoken to him since the fight. And whether he was worse or not, he took more damage in 3 rounds from MMA's number 1 blanket than he did from 5 rounds with Greasing Sleep Provider.

If BJ couldn't fight anymore he would have stopped.
"BJ, do you know where you are", "In Vegas getting my ass kicked", "You wanna stop the fight" "No way". That's the exact conversation BJ had with the ref. He was getting his ass kicked in terms of it being one sided but he wasn't getting badly hurt or anything of that nature.

And you are wrong, wrong and wrong.

Firstly, VASELINE is not used for breathing AT ALL. It's a Vapo Rub(generally Vicks) that is used for breathing. Patrick Vieira popularized when he was with Arsenal. If your rugby team-mates are using VASELINE then they are complete retards and it's of no benefit to them. Besides that, it's not illegal in Rugby.

Secondly, A towel will not wipe of Vaseline. It will smear it. What the corner man did was smear the VASELINE over GSP's chest and back make him slippery. Helping him to cheat.

Thirdly, If GSP wasn't one of Dana's golden boys there would have been a major investigation into the blatant cheating that took place. Instead it was pushed under the carpet. It's not the only time people have spoken of GSP and grease in the same sentence.

If you are on top of someone for an entire round you will always get a 10-8, Alves was never in danger and took very little punishment. And yes he did take more damage, i've spoken to him since the fight. And whether he was worse or not, he took more damage in 3 rounds from MMA's number 1 blanket than he did from 5 rounds with Greasing Sleep Provider.

If BJ couldn't fight anymore he would have stopped.
"BJ, do you know where you are", "In Vegas getting my ass kicked", "You wanna stop the fight" "No way". That's the exact conversation BJ had with the ref. He was getting his ass kicked in terms of it being one sided but he wasn't getting badly hurt or anything of that nature.

And you are wrong, wrong and wrong.

Firstly, VASELINE is not used for breathing AT ALL. It's a Vapo Rub(generally Vicks) that is used for breathing. Patrick Vieira popularized when he was with Arsenal. If your rugby team-mates are using VASELINE then they are complete retards and it's of no benefit to them. Besides that, it's not illegal in Rugby.

Secondly, A towel will not wipe of Vaseline. It will smear it. What the corner man did was smear the VASELINE over GSP's chest and back make him slippery. Helping him to cheat.

Thirdly, If GSP wasn't one of Dana's golden boys there would have been a major investigation into the blatant cheating that took place. Instead it was pushed under the carpet. It's not the only time people have spoken of GSP and grease in the same sentence.

Since when? If you simply lay on top of someone you won't get 10-8, other wise he would have won the last 2 10-8 as well. Sonnen would have won every round 10-8 against Nate and Silva. He won the round 10-8 because he battered him with punches from gaurd and his face was a little damaged after. it wasn't at all against Fitch. Maybe Fitch did more damage in three rounds but nothing he did was more damaging than the second round of GSP vs Alves.

Ye as I said HE didn't want to stop, but everyone knows he was finished.


Completely fucked that up, I got my greases mixed up that it what they were using. My bad.

But still, ye the corner man smeared it but the NACS OFFICIAL ( the dude's in the red jackets) saw it and wiped it of. A towel will get it all off, anytime I want to get vaseline off me, I use a towel to wipe it all off and it goes. The video clearly shows them wiping it off.

It wouldn't have made a difference anyway, when GSP was still a baby he controlled BJ comfortably when he got him down.

Some people have said he is slippery and try to make excuses, others accept they have been beaten and take there losses like a man.

Fighters get slippery in fights anyway because of sweat, so I really didn't understand what the big deal was. Don't get me wrong, I know grappling becomes near impossible if someone is slippery but fighters get slippery anyway because of things like sweat.

some fighters draw another fighter in so when a grazing shot gets past the wrestler will pretend to be hurt and hit the deck to draw the puncher into his world.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

If you are on top of someone for an entire round you will always get a 10-8, Alves was never in danger and took very little punishment. And yes he did take more damage, i've spoken to him since the fight. And whether he was worse or not, he took more damage in 3 rounds from MMA's number 1 blanket than he did from 5 rounds with Greasing Sleep Provider.

If BJ couldn't fight anymore he would have stopped.
"BJ, do you know where you are", "In Vegas getting my ass kicked", "You wanna stop the fight" "No way". That's the exact conversation BJ had with the ref. He was getting his ass kicked in terms of it being one sided but he wasn't getting badly hurt or anything of that nature.

And you are wrong, wrong and wrong.

Firstly, VASELINE is not used for breathing AT ALL. It's a Vapo Rub(generally Vicks) that is used for breathing. Patrick Vieira popularized when he was with Arsenal. If your rugby team-mates are using VASELINE then they are complete retards and it's of no benefit to them. Besides that, it's not illegal in Rugby.

Secondly, A towel will not wipe of Vaseline. It will smear it. What the corner man did was smear the VASELINE over GSP's chest and back make him slippery. Helping him to cheat.

Thirdly, If GSP wasn't one of Dana's golden boys there would have been a major investigation into the blatant cheating that took place. Instead it was pushed under the carpet. It's not the only time people have spoken of GSP and grease in the same sentence.

Since when? If you simply lay on top of someone you won't get 10-8, other wise he would have won the last 2 10-8 as well. Sonnen would have won every round 10-8 against Nate and Silva. He won the round 10-8 because he battered him with punches from gaurd and his face was a little damaged after. it wasn't at all against Fitch. Maybe Fitch did more damage in three rounds but nothing he did was more damaging than the second round of GSP vs Alves.

Ye as I said HE didn't want to stop, but everyone knows he was finished.


Completely fucked that up, I got my greases mixed up that it what they were using. My bad.

But still, ye the corner man smeared it but the NACS OFFICIAL ( the dude's in the red jackets) saw it and wiped it of. A towel will get it all off, anytime I want to get vaseline off me, I use a towel to wipe it all off and it goes. The video clearly shows them wiping it off.

It wouldn't have made a difference anyway, when GSP was still a baby he controlled BJ comfortably when he got him down.

Some people have said he is slippery and try to make excuses, others accept they have been beaten and take there losses like a man.

Fighters get slippery in fights anyway because of sweat, so I really didn't understand what the big deal was. Don't get me wrong, I know grappling becomes near impossible if someone is slippery but fighters get slippery anyway because of things like sweat.

Jake Shields lay on top of Hendo and got a 10-8, if you get the takedown within 30 seconds and spend the rest of the time on top, you will get 10-8

Sonnen got 2 10-8's against Silva. And would have got a 10-8 for the 5th round.

Again, a towel will NOT wipe Vaseline off, it will smear it into the skin and when mixed with sweat it will make you ridiculously slippery.

GSP took him down and lay on top of him in the first fight, he did nothing else. No passes on a regular basis. Because he wasn't greasing.

All fighters deal with sweat, not all fighters deal with their opponents cheating.

Shields did NOT just lie on top of Hendo, He had him in mount, he went for sub after sub and GnPed his face. Not his fault he has powder puff punches, but if he had good power, Hendo would probably have been stopped. Clear 10-8.

I can't recall the 2nd 10-8 Sonnen round, I know he won the first and he absolutely battered Silva in that round who did nothing. He rocked him and pounded his face, can't get a more clear 10-8 round.

I don't know, anytime I wipe off vaseline with a towel its all gone so im not sure exactly what you mean.

I know he didn't pass as much but that was before GSP was a real top fighter, he was at about the beginning of his rise.

Sweating makes you slippery. If you can't find ways round it, its your own fault.

GSP was slippery because he greased and cheated. Nothing to do with sweat. Why should BJ have had to figure out a way to get past cheating??

He didn't pass as much?? He barely passed AT ALL. And BJ was still only a young fighter at the time.

No, it doesn't. Stop telling lies. And what are you doing rubbing vaseline on yourself anyway?? If you're using the skin care one that's not the same thing that gets put on a fighters face.

4th round - 10-8.

And the round that was 10-8 was a dryhumping special that GSP would have been proud of.

Anfields5thKing wrote:GSP was slippery because he greased and cheated. Nothing to do with sweat. Why should BJ have had to figure out a way to get past cheating??

He didn't pass as much?? He barely passed AT ALL. And BJ was still only a young fighter at the time.

No, it doesn't. Stop telling lies. And what are you doing rubbing vaseline on yourself anyway?? If you're using the skin care one that's not the same thing that gets put on a fighters face.

4th round - 10-8.

And the round that was 10-8 was a dryhumping special that GSP would have been proud of.

hey now...we are not here to judge.

Again, a towel will NOT wipe Vaseline off, it will smear it into the skin and when mixed with sweat it will make you ridiculously slippery.

Similar to what happened between Sexyama-Sakuraba.

Someone needs to photo shop GSP's head (or Chelsea's by the sounds of things )to this video

someone already has, and they had BJ's face photo shopped into Peter's face

Can't find it though.

redmeanie77 wrote:

Again, a towel will NOT wipe Vaseline off, it will smear it into the skin and when mixed with sweat it will make you ridiculously slippery.

Similar to what happened between Sexyama-Sakuraba.

Exactly.

manschesthair_utd wrote:

Anfields5thKing wrote:GSP was slippery because he greased and cheated. Nothing to do with sweat. Why should BJ have had to figure out a way to get past cheating??

He didn't pass as much?? He barely passed AT ALL. And BJ was still only a young fighter at the time.

No, it doesn't. Stop telling lies. And what are you doing rubbing vaseline on yourself anyway?? If you're using the skin care one that's not the same thing that gets put on a fighters face.

4th round - 10-8.

And the round that was 10-8 was a dryhumping special that GSP would have been proud of.

hey now...we are not here to judge.

I only ask because when i questioned him before about his fascination with turtle sex and advised him to use lube, he claimed not to wear any!

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:someone already has, and they had BJ's face photo shopped into Peter's face

Can't find it though.

I've found it