The future of the UFC HW division?

So I did one on the MW division, so now its the HWs turn. Again, this time last year the HW division looked piss poor but now it looks pretty good. The next HW title match is Carwin vs Lesner at UFC 106. This should be an awesome match, two bears slugging it out. The problem Lesner has is that he won the belt too early so he can't build his experience up. He should fight guys like Hardonk, Kongo ect first but he would beat those quite simply. So he is currently the HW champion and looks likea monster but he now has arguably the toughest challenge in his MMA career against Shane Carwin who has beaten all his opponents in the first round. He is another guy who I don't feel has earned the shot but he looks to be the best challenger for Lesner. IMO Lesner will be too much, he is bigger, stronger and faster than Carwin, has much better wrestling, hits as hard and looks to be a lot better conditioned. I saw His training video and he looks very determined. Carwins best chance is standing up obviously where he has some destructive power but if Lesner takes it out of the first round he should be ok. Carwin was close to being finished by Gonzaga and was takendown before Gonz got sloppy. Lesner will be a lot smarter when he fights, he is actually a smarter fighter nowadays, his patience against Mir was testement to that.

So who else is in the mix? Velasuquez vs Rothwell is taking place at UFC 104 and whoever wins that could be in the mix as well. I don't think the winner deserves the shot at the belt but could be one win away. Rothwell is an experienced fighter who has been in some big fights and is a huge guy. Velasquez is a young up and coming fighter who is undefeated and a brilliant wrestler. He is also quite big and has some nasty GnP. I think Velasquez will take this and take one step closer to a shot at the belt.

The other guys in the mix are unfortunatley training partners, Junior Dos Santos and Big Nog. Dos Santos has already said he considered Nog a mentor and won't fight him. Both are coming off big wins while Dos Santos has finished his last 3 opponents (including Werdum and Cro Cop) while Nog is coming of the classic win over Randy. I feel like Dos Santos knows he has more time and will let Nog have one last oppurtunity as a show of respect so I expect to be seeing Nog fight Velasquez for the number one contender spot.

That leaves Gonzaga and the winner of Kongo/Mir in the mix and possibly the winner of TUF 10 (we all expect it to be Nelson but maybe not) Buentello vs Duffe is kind of a lower level elimanter fight with the winner moving up. This Duffe kid looks like a monster, huge for his age and awesome power. He has already beaten Asuerio Silva and Haugue and KOed them all, and apart from Silva has finished them all in the first round. He trains at ATT so his training is set. I expect to beat Buentello.

Velasquez/Rothwell vs Big Nog for number one contender
Gonzaga (he will probably get another fight before then) vs Mir/Kongo
Dos Santos vs TUF 10 winner (although I doubt it)
Duffe vs Buentello

Any other contenders?

I think if Mir wins then we get Mir-Nog rematch for 1 contender. I would like to see Gonzaga v Cain though, i think that would be very interesting fight.

Infact Gonzaga v any of these would also be great.

Lesnar/Mir/Nog/JDS/Kongo .....

Kimbo's going to breeze through everyone, I've seen his Youtube videos.

Haha yeah Kimbo to be champ for sure just by how Gangsta he is in those videos... straight outta compton or what!
I do think he seems humble and likeable in interviews, TUF 10 second eppisope seems to have changed a few people optinons, Good luck to him, He is a banger with an exciting style. Id like to see him fight Kongo or Herring just to see if he can become half decent though Size and Age might be a factor...

Gonzaga is a contender again, I agree Duffee beats Buentello and I agree Dos Santos allows Nog to get a shot ahead of him outta respect.

Lesnar beats Carwin setting him back, if he holds his own he will be top of the Pyle.

Mir beats Kongo but is still a fight away from a rematch, Perhaps a Nog number 1 contender fight?

Nog goes straight in as the next challenger but will loose to Lesnar by GnP taking to many unanswered shots I think.

Valesquez beats Big Ben and then looks to fight Carwin (assuming he looses) or Dos Santos maby? That could be another number 1 conder fight.

Im just going to throw him into the Mix because Id say UFC will want Antonio Silva they have already gave him a contract offer so its already an offer from UFC on the table if he wants it, If he beats Barnett they will pay megabucks for him, I do see him having the tools to beat Barnett who could well be off the Juice as he is getting tested before the fight.

I dont see TUF winner really being in the Mix at all, There are plenty of lower level heavys on UFC's roster for them to spend a good few fights slugging it out with.

The thing is about the Hw devision, UFC have a big full roster but guys who would walk in as a top contender arent on there roster like Fedor, Barnett etc.. I think they need to look at a top 20 ranking and sign guys who they are missing who they could sign. Im pleased the offered Bigfoot a contract thats a step in the right direction but there are guys like Arlovski, Sylvia, Aleks E, Even Monson who could hang with most top UFC heavys who are more or less Free agents. Id like to see them sign a few more heavys

I see Valezquez mauling Rothwell, and then getting Mir and mauling him.

Lesnar will fight Carwin and assuming he beats him he'll fight Big Nog after that.

Then Valezquez and Lesnar will meet and at that point i expect Lesnar to lose his title.

Setting up Fedor's entry to the UFC to fight a recently dethroned Lesnar, whilst Valezquez defends against Dos Santos.

Then Fedor fights Valezquez, crystal ball goes fuzzy at that point.

Can't see Velasquez ever beating Brock or Shane, he wouldnt be able to get either down (brock definatley not) and would get taken down by brock and put on his back where i assume he is not good enough to defend against the gnp (Mir is a good fighter from his back and he wsnt). Or against Carwin he would get KOd.

I hate Lesnar... but have to say I don't see anyone beating him at the moment, Cain would if he was bigger, Carwin might do it if he connects but hes too one dimentional, Lesnar will watch out for his fists. Dos Santos doesn't have a tank he looked sloppy against a poor cro cop. Nogs past it unfortunantly. Mir got lucky in their first fight, Lesnar gave him his ankle. The only man that can do the job isn't in the UFC (Mr Fedor)

pinsman is agree mate, I dont see Nog pulling out a miracle armbar against Lesnar, Mir would loose again... There isnt much for him in the UFC. Carwin is his biggest threat and I think he will beat him. Chesty is spot on Cain wouldnt outwrestle him, I just dont see anyone in the UFC doing it right now. Having said that some young guy like Duffee (who I still havnt watched his other fights) could become unstoppable and just Bang him out on the feet. We still dont know how Lesnar will do on the feet in a fight, toe to toe in a firefight I dont know what will happen.

Outside the UFC, Fedor Maby most put him as heavy favorite and rightly so, Barnett maby he has good wrestling and knows submissions a lot better than Brock, Overeem maby he is good with close trip takedowns that I think Brock is Vunerable to Crazy KO power and size Brocks chin is untented Overeems Striking is just about the best in the Hw devision, Alexs maby Big Ol heavy who can do it all and has reall really improved in recent years... hell even Antonio Silva, Theres another Shw who canhas great BJJ and on the feet can deliver a flying knee. There are much better fights for Leanar outside UFC.

UFC has a lot of heavy on the books, And its good to see them activly Signing guys like Nelson and Rothwell even Buentello, they are all good fighers but they arent going to be the champ. Guys like Overeem or Aleks could some in and take the devision by storm, I could see either of them beating the likes of Mir who is top 2 or 3 in the UFC depending on how you rank Nog. UFC made a mistake letting Overeem slip through their fingers... he was at UFC in Dublin and rumours were going that he was signing. real shame.

IF Brock beats Carwin and Nog UFC better get thinking about who they are going to get as next contender because a Mir rubbermatch is all they have for him which isnt really a fight people want to see.

"UFC made a mistake letting Overeem slip through their fingers"


Do you not think that the fact Overeem cant pass a urine test to save his life, has anything to do with him not signing for UFC. Could you imagine after months of promoting Brock-Overeem, few days before he pulls out with sudden "injury" and goes off and fights in K1 2 months later.

Sorry but Alistair is really starting to piss me off, cant believe strikeforce havent stripped him from his title yet......

Massively under-estimating Valezquez here. Hilarious to claim he wouldn't be able to take Brock down. He's an elite level wrestler and Randy Couture took Lesnar down with ease so Cain could certainly do it. He's also got better stand-up than Brock and whilst he's not Frank Mir on the ground, defensively he's far better. Plus he's got a good chin.

Valezquez, with 3 or 4 more fights under his belt is the only HW in the UFC that poses a real challenge to Fedor IMO. He has everything. Strength, power, cardio, speed, stand-up, wrestling, BJJ and a solid chin. Plus he's smart. far smarter than a meathead like Lesnar or Carwin.

I have to agree with Anfield on this one, although it's not often I agree with Liverpool fans. I think Cain has the potential to become the top heavyweight in the UFC. Although it would have made for an interesting fight I'm quite glad that he isn't going to be fighting Carwin next. A win over Rothwell and a few more fights against top level competition should give Cain the time to develop his game further before going for a title fight.

Carwin works well as a challenger for the gold just now. His advancing age, size and impressive stoppage record means the UFC can throw him in against Brock then see if he sinks or swims. Have to say my money's on Brock though.

I don't think Carwin has beaten anyone impressive. Gonzaga is an average fighter who's over-rated because he kicked a far from his best CroCop in the head. He got SMASHED by Randy Couture and Werdum has stopped him twice. That's 3 TKO's against grapplers with little or no power.

Carwin is massive and has good power but he got badly rocked by Gonzaga who's not the biggest puncher in the division and his cardio hasn't been tested. I think Cain would have gotten an easy UD over him had that fight gone ahead.

Carwin should not be getting a title shot. Lesnar will smash him and who-ever else they feed him until he fights Cain and then he will lose.

I don't think Carwin has beaten anyone impressive. Gonzaga is an average fighter who's over-rated because he kicked a far from his best CroCop in the head. He got SMASHED by Randy Couture and Werdum has stopped him twice. That's 3 TKO's against grapplers with little or no power.

Carwin is massive and has good power but he got badly rocked by Gonzaga who's not the biggest puncher in the division and his cardio hasn't been tested. I think Cain would have gotten an easy UD over him had that fight gone ahead.

Carwin should not be getting a title shot. Lesnar will smash him and who-ever else they feed him until he fights Cain and then he will lose.

Who would you have given the title shot to?

Gonzaga is Carwin's only notable win but I think he should ask a few questions of Brock. I'm quite keen to see how Brock copes with a fighter of comparable size who could give his chin a proper test. Carwin ticks both boxes just now so it makes for an intersting matchup.

You guys shouldnt forget that initially it was Carwin-Cain for title shot, but when they found out that Brock was fighting again sooner than they expected it, they scrapped the fight and put Carwin in.

I think Cain would have won that fight as i think he is an all round better fighter, but i think Carwin has better chance to beat Brock as he is bigger and has that knockout power that will concern Brock a great deal in the fight.

Mir hit Lesnar with a vicious jumping knee and Lesnar walked through it. His chin has been tested gets good marks.

The title shot should have gone to Nog or they should have just given him a can to squash. Rothwell would actually have been ideal!

I think people are a bit too harsh on Velasquez, IMO he would have beat Carwin by a UD. His striking is sloppy, especially defensive and thats something I have notced with a few of the AKA guys. (Kos getting KOed by Thaigo, Fitch getting rocked by GSP) Lets not forget Kongo has some of the better standup in the UFC HW division and is probably a better striker than Lesner. He gave Velasquez his best shots and Velzasquez's chin was good enough. I also agree with Anfield about Lesner's chin, he took a knee from Mir and survived. I don't think Velasquez could actually beat Lesner or Fedor at this stage, but possibly in the future, right now he is nowhere near that level.

Right now, I don't think Nog could beat Lesner, Ithink Lesner would hammerfist his face to oblivion. Dos Santos is a guy that DOES have a chance because of the power and speed he has in his hands, one flurry and Lesner would be done. I don't see that happening anytime soon, Dos Santos has a way to go but he is another one with potentiol.

Also besides Fedor, I can't see any HW beating Lesner now. Overeem and Barnett juice too much so they won't figh in theUS anytime soon. Silva would be a good fight but Lesner would be too much.

i think we have different criteria for a good chin; brock apparently "saw black" from that knee and cain was sverely wobbled everytime something touched his chin in the kongo fight.

good recovery? yes, good chin? no, not the way i understand it.

Overeem is fighting in the US soon thats the thing with HGH, you take it and get huge, I think it has lasting effects, we all suspect Lesnar took it and he is in the US.

I think Carwin diserves a title shot simply because there isnt many other fights and Lesnar needs to keep active. Carwin is a big undefeated Heavy who is a fight finisher why not put him in with Lesnar, I expect Lesnar to stop him because he is a bigger more physical better wrestler who should be smart enough not to trade and risk his title.

Cain is only 27, Id rather he didnt fight Lesnar yet off the back of a Kongo win were he was in trouble. I see the potential in him, he is the main young prospect in UFC but with only 6 fight under his belt he is in no rush for a title shot. He might the the winner if he beats Rothwell. Maby a number 1 contenders fighter with Nog insted? Maby even let Nog get the shot and let Cain fight Gonzaga or some high ranking heavy if he doesnt blow Rothwell away. 27 is young in Heavyweight terms. A heavy can fight at his peak till he is 35 these days why rush him into a loss against Lesnar. Id like him to have a good few fights before his shot. Not because he doesnt diserve it but because he is so young and has so little fights under his belt

On the chins, Lesnars is untested, I dont think that Knee was a great connection. I do think he has looked a bit "shocked" maby not raelly stunned when a punch connects but its rare to see Lesnar take a punch. Ive never seen him hit more than a single shot. Cain was hit with single shots that dropped him which does indicate a bad chin. Not terrible as he was able to recover but not a good chin if Kongo had of followed those punches with a 2nd show it could have been light out. When you hit someone a hard shot and the looked dazed often its the 2nd or 3rd punch that puts them down of KOs them. So Lesnars is still untested for me and Cains isnt good, But an MMA fighters Chin isnt as crutial as a Boxers and Amir Khan holds a title... that says it all. Chin isnt the be all and end all of a figehr but a Chinny figher always was that added risk of loosing.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote: I don't think Velasquez could actually beat Lesner or Fedor at this stage, but possibly in the future, right now he is nowhere near that level.
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He's a 2-3 fights away from Lesnar. Fedor is on a level separate to everyone else but i think Cain is the only one out their with the tools to at least challenge him.

I don't see anyone ever beating Fedor for what its worth.

Id only see Machida beating Fedor at this stage, Maybe Lesner and possibly some one who hits hard getting a lucky shot but otherwise no. I don't think Velazquez has the tools to beat Fedor, if it went to the ground Fedor has a massive advanatge there and standing up Fedor's shots and finishing ability would be too much for Velasquez's poor defensive stance.

"Cain was hit with single shots that dropped him which does indicate a bad chin. Not terrible as he was able to recover but not a good chin if Kongo had of followed those punches with a 2nd show it could have been light out."

You have to remember that Kongo hits very hard and Velasquez wasn't really rocked as bad as Carwin was against Gonzaga. Even Hendo has stuttered before against Rampage and A Silva. If Kongo hit Nog like that, I thnk Nog would have been rocked as bad as Velasquez.

Cain simply wouldn't beat Lesnar, come on guys think about it. Lesnar is just too big for him I know he got kongo to the floor alot and held him there, but he landed alot of shots on kongo and they didn't have any affect! and also while cain had him on the floor he didn't work that hard to try and finish the fight..... IMO Brock would punch Cain in the head, Cain would wobble, Lesnar being quick and strong would take him down at seeing the oppertunity, and finally pound Cains face into the mat. Sorry guys Fedor is the only HW in MMA that could handle Lesnar simple as that.... Pains me to say it though as i wish there was a fighter that could challange Lesnar, can't stand the jock!!

Have you any idea how big or strong Cain V is?? The guy is ridiculously powerful and a top class wrestler. Couture took Lesnar down with ease. Cain would take him down anytime he wants. PLUS he's got a great takedown defense and he thinks like a wrestler. He knows how to spot a takedown attempt. Something none of Lesnar's previous opponents have. Couture, for all his wrestling qualities, is a greco guy. spotting shots is not a strong point.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Id only see Machida beating Fedor at this stage, Maybe Lesner and possibly some one who hits hard getting a lucky shot but otherwise no. I don't think Velazquez has the tools to beat Fedor, if it went to the ground Fedor has a massive advanatge there and standing up Fedor's shots and finishing ability would be too much for Velasquez's poor defensive stance.

"Cain was hit with single shots that dropped him which does indicate a bad chin. Not terrible as he was able to recover but not a good chin if Kongo had of followed those punches with a 2nd show it could have been light out."

You have to remember that Kongo hits very hard and Velasquez wasn't really rocked as bad as Carwin was against Gonzaga. Even Hendo has stuttered before against Rampage and A Silva. If Kongo hit Nog like that, I thnk Nog would have been rocked as bad as Velasquez.

Machida vs Fedor would be very hard to call. Machida is, for me, number 2 in the world after Fedor and i don't think there's a massive size difference.

I think Cain has the skills. He's a strong technical wrestler. He's got a good chin and decent stand-up. And he's smart. I think he's got all the tools to be like a Randy Couture type fighter who'll adapt and find ways to win fights he shouldn't. Randy's major problem at HW has been size. Cain doesn't have that problem. I think that after a couple more fights he'll beat Lesnar and i do think he has what it takes to maybe not beat Fedor but at least give him a challenge. There's no other HW out there that could do that. Lesnar wouldn't last more than a round with Fedor without getting tapped out.

Have you any idea how big or strong Cain V is?? The guy is ridiculously powerful and a top class wrestler. Couture took Lesnar down with ease

I wouldn't say ease mate, Lesner was caught off balance and Randy got a nice trip. At the end of the day, Jon Madsen off TUF 10 beat Lesner in a wrestling match so he can be taken down. What worries me about Velasquez his poor striking defense, yes he has a good chin but with a guy as strong as Lesner it only takes on punch before your hammerfisted to hell. You have to also say Lesner is a developing fighter as well, give him a year and I think he could give Fedor a challenge, he was just rushed into a shot at the belt when he didn't deserve it.

I still think people aren't giving Dos Santos enough credit, he is very young with awesome power in his hands. His BJJ is ever improving and his handspeed is lightning quick. Give this guy a year and he will be a monster, at the end of the day he has more impressive wins than Velasquez. Id say Werdum is better than Kongo who was better than the Cro Cop that faced Dos Santos. Cro Cop is abigger win than Jake O Brien and. Struve is a bigger win than Stojnic.


Machida vs Fedor would be very hard to call. Machida is, for me, number 2 in the world after Fedor and i don't think there's a massive size difference

Im not going to go into a P4P discussion but there 2 are two of the best 3 in the world for me. Id love to see how it would go, I really could see Machida winning this. This would be an awesome fight, words can't describe it.

Oh and sorry to say this on an MMA board mate but 2-0