Brock Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez Confirmed For UFC 121 On 10/23

rudeboyben84 wrote:Overeem would be a much worse Fight for Lesnar, he is 10X more dangerous on the feet. He punches about as hard and you throw flying knees and kicks by a 260lbs man into the Mix. He also has a bigger reach and as half a foot taller than Carwin, he is quicker and has better cardio and Subs.

No one is going to Overpower or Outrwestle Lesnar so Carwins game was out the window.

JDS or Overeem would punch a hole in Lesnar, you dont have to Knock comeone spark out to get a TKO victory, and I doubt Lesnars chin holds up to an Overeem Knee anyway.

Cain can stop this TKO if he Lesnar shies away from the standup and Cain doesnt stop punchling like like Carwin did. I wouldnt write him off though I dont think he is the man to get the job done either.

But Overoid wont be anywhere near as difficult to take down as Carwin is. And Brock is pretty explosive on his shot. Overroid has slowed down considerably since his roiding. Brok takes him down and Overroid will crumble when getting hit like he always does.

Cain hit Kongo with 250 punches or something and couldnt finish. Brock will have learned his lesson and will go for the takedown from the start this time. And i think he will win handily enough.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
Barnett might marginally be a better striker but he doesn't have an advantage there. Lesnar has far more power than him and it would only take one shot. Barnett doesn't have enough takedown defence to stop Lesnar's shot. Barnett has never faced a wrestler like Lesnar before as well. On the ground Lesnar probably smashes his head in, but Barnett could stop him with submission attempts.

this is completley wrong.

Barnett is a good technical striker, he has been improving his striking loads recently too. Lesnar on the other hand, is one of the absolute worst strikers i have ever seen in MMA, bar pretty much none. he has ONE punch, the telegraphed straight right punch.
Watching him try to hit Carwin with it and stumble over was very funny.
I'm not going to say Barnett would KO Brock, since Brock has shown he is very tough, but if Brock decided to stand with Josh he would get his shit kicked in.

I don't think Brock intends to stand with anyone

It's not as if brock has a boxing or K1 career ahead of him is it

We've seen that brock has poor stand up and we know he is tough and isn't in anyway easy to KO,so i think the more important thing is,can anyone stop him before taking them down,can they stop his takedowns and if he ends up on top,can anyone shrug him off and escape,for me these are harder things to answer and to do to beat him,than the ways people are predicting how easy it would be for fighters to beat brock.

Carwin did well stuffing his one takedown attempt in the 1st,granted,but there are not many fighters out there with Carwins size and wrestling credentials,but still he couldn't finish him like he has every fighter he has before that and how many other fighters out there have the punching power and overall power that carwin has.We are still yet to see anyone get brock off them when he gets on top.

It's hard to see if Brock will continue to be the NO1 ranked HW because for all the questions that he answered,a load more qeustions have popped up about him after seeing him being dominated for a rd.
i personally think he will stay at the top for a good while yet,there have been loads of top fighters that have been dominated for a rd in there careers but won the fight especially so early in there careers,i think it will be a big wake up call for him and something that he will learn aload from,not only about what to do differant but more importantly he'll have learned alot about himself.
The things that Brock does well,he is incredible at,thats why he has beaten all the good fighters he has fought so far,but the things he is not so good at,he is poor.
Though he is going to improve with every fight,like he has already been showing in the short career he's had so far,not just when it comes to developing skills but it looks like mentally he is better prepared to be an MMA fighter now also.

did you hear about Brock being entered into ADCC next year??

its not a joke either!

Cain had never shown stand-up like that before that fight either. Nonsense regarding Barnett's takedowns. Wandi took Mirko down in the first fight, when Mirko hadn't much idea what he was doing. Barnett's takedowns are more than good enough to get Cain down. And no, Cain would not KO Barnett.

JDS vs Barnett is not a 50-50 fight. JDS isn't on Barnett's level.

Barnett is a much better fighter than Brock and has a good chin and would beat him standing with ease, or sub him on the ground.

Lesnar should have been able to stop Couture taking him down, he wasn't. Barnett is MUCH better than Couture when it comes to takedowns. Cain, Brock and Carwin would end up on the ground if Barnett chose to take it there.

He took him down in the second fight as well, and Wandi is a LHW even a MW. Barnett's takedowns have always been crap, I am convinced Cain would dismantle Barnett with relative ease. Cain hasn't shown that before because it was his 8TH FIGHT! He never felt like he needed to use standup before so he just focused on his wrestling and his GnP, but when he realised that he was facing Nog, he knew he needed to change his game. Easy win for Cain.

JDS isn't on Barnett's level on the ground, but he is far superior stsanding. 50-50 fight.

Couture took Lesnar down the way he takes every one down. By using the cage, Randy has taken everybody down like that. Barnett has never shown he has better takedowns than that Randy Couture. Also Lesnar was takendown for about 2 seconds and got back up easily.Lesnar, Cain and Carwin are all much better wrestlers than Barnett, Cain is much quicker and better conditioned. Carwin is a lot bigger and stronger. Lesnar is quicker AND bigger and stronger.

this is completley wrong.

Barnett is a good technical striker, he has been improving his striking loads recently too. Lesnar on the other hand, is one of the absolute worst strikers i have ever seen in MMA, bar pretty much none. he has ONE punch, the telegraphed straight right punch.
Watching him try to hit Carwin with it and stumble over was very funny.
I'm not going to say Barnett would KO Brock, since Brock has shown he is very tough, but if Brock decided to stand with Josh he would get his shit kicked in

When has he shown his improved striking? Barnett has always been an average striker, he couldn't outstrike Nog in the day, he struggled against MONSON of all people. Barnett's hands are very average and he has very little hands behind them as well. Lesnar's standup sucks but atleast he has power behind those shots, certainly enough to KO Barnett. Lesnar would simply take him down and pretty much do whatever the fuck he wanted.

manschesthair_utd wrote:did you hear about Brock being entered into ADCC next year??

its not a joke either!

No!! Havnt heard this!! Crazy.... Where did you hear it? Cant Imagine he will do well...

manschesthair_utd wrote:did you hear about Brock being entered into ADCC next year??

its not a joke either!

Well I'm at a loss for words at that one.

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and from ADCC's page:

Thousands of Submission grappling tournaments around the world use elements of the ADCC format and rule structure. To date, the great majority of ADCC champions have had experience studying the art of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, whose rules are the most similar to it. However, there have been notable exceptions to this, such as Sanae Kikuta (judo/catch wrestling), and Mark Kerr (Collegiate/Freestyle Wrestling).

Mark Kerr may not be the only wrestler to have success in the ADCC. Rodrigo 'Comprido' Medeiros has stated that Freestyle Wrestler and UFC Heavyweight Champion, Brock Lesnar, will be competing in the 2011 ADCC Tournament.

Barnett doesn't have JDS's power but he's not far off him in terms of technical striking.

Barnett has good takedowns and would take down any HW.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

this is completley wrong.

Barnett is a good technical striker, he has been improving his striking loads recently too. Lesnar on the other hand, is one of the absolute worst strikers i have ever seen in MMA, bar pretty much none. he has ONE punch, the telegraphed straight right punch.
Watching him try to hit Carwin with it and stumble over was very funny.
I'm not going to say Barnett would KO Brock, since Brock has shown he is very tough, but if Brock decided to stand with Josh he would get his shit kicked in

When has he shown his improved striking? Barnett has always been an average striker, he couldn't outstrike Nog in the day, he struggled against MONSON of all people. Barnett's hands are very average and he has very little hands behind them as well. Lesnar's standup sucks but atleast he has power behind those shots, certainly enough to KO Barnett. Lesnar would simply take him down and pretty much do whatever the fuck he wanted.

Eh? He wouldn't do what ever the ffuck he wanted at all, we are talking about the same Barnett who Is pretty fucking awesomeme at subs right? And as for only hanging with Nog back in the day, nogs renowned for being a technical boxer.
I expected more from you Chelsea

KalDog is not angry with you Chelski, he's just disappointed!

[quote="ChelseaQuinsfan"]

Lesnar's standup sucks but atleast he has power behind those shots, certainly enough to KO Barnett.

Lesnar has 2 TKO wins in his career, against Frank Mir(been TKO'd FIVE times) and Randy Couture(been TKO'd SIX times). Neither of whom have ever been accused of having iron chins.

Barnett has been TKO'd twice, by CroCop(greatest KO artist in MMA history and it was actually more of a submission due to strikes than anything else) and Pedro Rizzo who's got 10 career KO's in 18 fights.

There is nothing to suggest Lesnar could KO Barnett.

Anfields5thKing wrote:KalDog is not angry with you Chelski, he's just disappointed!

Touché

Eh? He wouldn't do what ever the ffuck he wanted at all, we are talking about the same Barnett who Is pretty fucking awesomeme at subs right? And as for only hanging with Nog back in the day, nogs renowned for being a technical boxer.
I expected more from you Chelsea

Awesome at SUBS, not awesome off his back though. He can't defend and attack off his back like an Aoki or Soti can. He isn't flexible enough and he is too fat. I think it was Monson who had him on his back once, he couldn't get back up. Monson is a good grappler but he is really an overblown LHW.

Lesnar is 265 pounds of muscle and has excellent control. Mir has pretty good BJJ but he couldn't stop shit.

If Lesnar gets ontop of Lesnar and starts going donkey kong, there is very little Barnett can do.

As for Nog, he was a decent boxer but he normally got battered on the feet. Most decent strikers just hammered the shit out of him, but his chin and durability helped him. when he lost that he just looks like a zombie.

Lesnar has 2 TKO wins in his career, against Frank Mir(been TKO'd FIVE times) and Randy Couture(been TKO'd SIX times). Neither of whom have ever been accused of having iron chins.

Barnett has been TKO'd twice, by CroCop(greatest KO artist in MMA history and it was actually more of a submission due to strikes than anything else) and Pedro Rizzo who's got 10 career KO's in 18 fights.

There is nothing to suggest Lesnar could KO Barnett.

Great point except Lesnar has had 6 fights!

He finished Kim with GnP, if Kim didn't tap it was going to be a TKO. Kim is a can but whatever.

He was on his way to finishing Mir before Mazgahti screwed things up. That fight could actually have been stopped.

he fucked Herring up beyond beleif, and look at that first punch. He didn't have that much speed behind it but thats tremendous power.

TKOed Randy

TKOed Mir, this had nothing to do with an iron chin, did you see Mir's face? Anyone would have been stopped in that situation.

So there is quite a lot to suggest Lesnar can KO Barnett, he certainly has the power for it.

i dont think Lesnar has much chance against Barnett.

the only guys to drop him i remember are crocop, and that was a lethal barrage of punches (something Lesnar will never pull of) and Rizzo, and he was off balance and gassed as hell!!! i not even sure he was KOd in that fight, just drowsy

Lesnar is a hell of a lot slower, more predictable, and less powerful puncher than either of those men (who are both known as kickers btw).


Barnett would also have Brock's grappling coach IN HIS CORNER if they fought.

Yeah I say Barnett might well get done in by Lesnar on the feet, Shitting yourself when Carwin clocks you is one thing, most other peoples lights get turned out. Barnett isnt going to hit with much more than Randy did and his Striking is below what Mir's is and remember Mir dropped to the ground because he didnt want to stand with Brock.

Brock looked a Coward on the feet against Shane but its excusable for a relative rookie to duck away from just about the biggest hitter in MMA. Josh Barnett has only looked good on his feet one time in recent memory against a shot to bits Rizzo.

Lads Watch the Monson fight which was mostly fought on the feet as far as I can remember he didnt even look at impressive against Monson who is a human punchbag on the feet these days.

It boils down to this for me. The better chance you have of Battering Lesnar on the feet due to excelent striking or the better chance of Subbing him you have because of excelent BJJ the more likely you are to win. I think Brock murders Barnett in both senarios ground and feet.

Its not that I dont rate Barnett I just think Brock isnt a good fight for him at all.

Chesty Brock isnt slower than those guys, he havnt seen breakneck speed in the ring apart from charging Herring but Brock is one of the quickest heavies. But maby not HANDSPEED but he is quicker in sprinting.. explosive speed etc..

Ricco hits harder than Brock? Come on mate, your looking into records too much, Herring is 250 odd lbs and Brock knocked the man head over Heels, Brock hits hard, records or not he has heavier hands than your giving him credit for. Ricco and Crocop are 50lbs lighter dont forget, having that weight behing your punch helps a lot!

I know he fruited out of the standup with Carwin but Mir did it to Brock, Its happend before in MMA where one guy doesnt want to stand with the other and they sink to the ground to avoid being punched from pillar to post, we have all seen it before but Brock is taking 10X the shit everyone else who has done it gets.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

Lesnar has 2 TKO wins in his career, against Frank Mir(been TKO'd FIVE times) and Randy Couture(been TKO'd SIX times). Neither of whom have ever been accused of having iron chins.

Barnett has been TKO'd twice, by CroCop(greatest KO artist in MMA history and it was actually more of a submission due to strikes than anything else) and Pedro Rizzo who's got 10 career KO's in 18 fights.

There is nothing to suggest Lesnar could KO Barnett.

Great point except Lesnar has had 6 fights!

He finished Kim with GnP, if Kim didn't tap it was going to be a TKO. Kim is a can but whatever.

He was on his way to finishing Mir before Mazgahti screwed things up. That fight could actually have been stopped.

he fucked Herring up beyond beleif, and look at that first punch. He didn't have that much speed behind it but thats tremendous power.

TKOed Randy

TKOed Mir, this had nothing to do with an iron chin, did you see Mir's face? Anyone would have been stopped in that situation.

So there is quite a lot to suggest Lesnar can KO Barnett, he certainly has the power for it.

No, he doesn't and no there isn't. He hasn't KO'd ANYBODY and certainly hasn't TKO'd anybody with a chin like Barnett's.

Herring walked into the punch with his chin in the air because he expected Lesnar to shoot. Barnett is not stupid.


Ben, Carwin didn't even connect fully with Lesnar and Lesnar ran away, and then dropped to the floor without being hit. Anybody that goes at him will get a similar response.

Brock is an ideal fight for Barnett. He could easily outbox Lesnar who has the worst stand-up i have ever seen from a high level fighter, he would, as Chesty said, have Brock's grappling coach in his corner and be more than prepared for Lesnar. People say you can't prepare for Lesnar. Nonsense. Bring in Carwin. He's a much better version of Lesnar just with a shitty gas tank.

i dont think Lesnar has much chance against Barnett.

the only guys to drop him i remember are crocop, and that was a lethal barrage of punches (something Lesnar will never pull of) and Rizzo, and he was off balance and gassed as hell!!! i not even sure he was KOd in that fight, just drowsy drunken

Lesnar is a hell of a lot slower, more predictable, and less powerful puncher than either of those men (who are both known as kickers btw).


Barnett would also have Brock's grappling coach IN HIS CORNER if they fought.

Look, I know Lesnar won't out strike Barnett the way Cro Cop did but what im saying is he has enough power to KO Barnett. Lesnar ofc hits harder than Rizzo! Rizzo might be a faster striker but Lesnar has much heavier hands. Look at say Hendo and Belfort. Belfort is the better striker and more lethal KO striker but Hendo's hands are MUCH heavier. Lesnar has a lot more power than Rizzo ever did.

Barnett isn't a great striker and was never shown to be.

The only fight where Lesnar's striking truley looked poor is against Carwin and thats because it was the first time he was properly hit, it happens to most MMA fighters. They don't know how to react but he has taken the WORSE hit he possible can at MMA by the hardest puncher. Remember he is 6 fights in and this was after an extremly long layoff, people seem to forget that as well.

You have also brought an intresting point that I forgot, Barnett's gas tank is not the greatest. He gasses quickly, (roided muscle always does ) so who's to say he won't gas like Carwin would?

I'd also guess Lesnar's grappling coach would probably stay out of it and not corner either guy.

Lesnar's striking has looked really poor in all of his fights. He just throws massive haymakers that any decent stand-up fighter will avoid with great ease.

Barnett wouldn't gas in a round because he's not stupid like Carwin was. And Carwin never landed cleanly with his right hand against Lesnar. One left uppercut that was about 70% power and the rest were extended shots Lesnar was running from. He then slumped to the ground to avoid getting KOd.

There's not a chance that Lesnar KO's Barnett standing.

if you haven't seen this its worth a watch, Barnett basically called Lesnar/Carwin perfectly, and then said how he would beat Brock.