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rudeboyben84
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    Doc Hamilton Changes His Mind About Machida/Rua Scoring

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    Doc Hamilton Changes His Mind About Machida/Rua Scoring Empty Doc Hamilton Changes His Mind About Machida/Rua Scoring

    Post  Moose Stuff For Money... Mon Dec 28, 2009 5:47 pm

    Following the UFC 104 title scrap between Lyoto Machida and Mauricio Rua, we were fairly shocked when the scores came back unanimously for Machida. Wasn't Shogun the aggressor during the majority of the fight? Didn't he land more strikes? When it came time for the judges to explain themselves, we learned that leg kicks don't end fights, so you might as well not count them at all. But at least one judge from that night is having a crisis of conscience. From Yahoo! Sports (via Fightlinker):


    [Nelson "Doc"] Hamilton was one of the three judges who controversially scored that fight 48-47 in favor of Machida. Yet after watching tape of the fight, Hamilton now believes Rua was the winner. “There was a round in that fight [Round 4] where my line of sight while they were standing was blocked,” said Hamilton, who feels TV monitors for judges would solve the problem. “Because of the angle where most of the round was fought, I couldn’t see the punches and whether they were landing. If the fight had been on the ground, I could look at the big screens, but this was a fight where the blows were coming one at a time and you don’t want to look away and miss an important blow.”

    When Hamilton saw the fight again, he noted that viewers saw Round 4 from a completely different perspective that he did...based on what he couldn’t see from his cageside vantage point, he believes Rua won the round.

    Besides the addition of TV monitors, Hamilton is also in favor of tweaking the 10-point-must scoring system:


    Hamilton proposes a scoring system based on breaking the scoring down to half-points, where a close round, a solid win, a dominant win and having the opponent on the verge of defeat could all be differentiated. Under this system, if a fighter wins a round that’s difficult to call, it gets scored 10-9.5. When it’s clear that one fighter won the round, it’s 10-9. When a fighter dominates the round but doesn’t have his opponent in bad shape during the round, or if a fighter does major damage but the opponent gets a degree of offense in, that would be a 10-8.5. A 10-8 round or lower would be similar to how things are scored today.

    So, two things...

    1) Can we finally put an end to the ridiculous notion that the judge has "the best seat in the house"? That line has long been used as a rebuttal to outraged fans whose opinions are apparently worthless because they weren't actually at the fight. Forget the fact that us fans watch the fights on high-definition screens, with the benefit of multiple camera angles, whereas judges are squinting over from cageside at things that they rarely have the best sight-line on. Most of the time, the view from my sofa is far better than the view from the judging table.

    2) The use of half-point scores is clearly not the answer. "If a fighter wins a round that’s difficult to call, it gets scored 10-9.5." Well how do you know you're giving the right fighter the 10 score if it's so difficult to call? Judges would probably make a lot of the same mistakes under this system, but they'd be doing it with fractions. A better solution is more 10-10 rounds — if you can't decide which fighter won the round, then call it a draw instead of relying on guesswork or gut feelings. A 10-9 is supposed to be awarded when one fighter clearly wins a round, but that's not how it's always used. Unfortunately, MMA judges are often too scared to drop the double-10:


    Another inherent problem is that while judges are told they can give 10-10 scores, they also believe if they do so with any frequency, they won’t be asked back. “I’m not going to die on that sword,” said Hamilton.

    Completely understandable, buddy. Careers and titles hang in the balance, but you wouldn't want to jeopardize your cushy job of watching fights and awarding winning scores to who-the-fuck-ever.

    http://www.cagepotato.com/doc-hamilton-changes-his-mind-about-machidarua-scoring
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Mon Dec 28, 2009 6:19 pm

    Well fair play to him, Glad some people can admit when they are wrong, supprised that the Judges dont have all sorts of monitors to watch the fight from different angles!! Its old new now and really doesnt matter if all 3 judges admitted they were wrong, the score is going to be settled in the rematch when ive no doubt Shogun will give him a beating again.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Tue Dec 29, 2009 12:23 pm

    Machida won the fight and one judge telling lies to make himself popular won't change that.

    Machida will beat him again in the rematch.
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    Post  Albion_Oakley Tue Dec 29, 2009 1:25 pm

    Why would he be lying to make himself popular LOL

    Its fair enough for him to changehis mind after seeing it from a different angle, its doesnt change his score on the night and it doesnt change the fact Machida won on the night. Im sure football referees sometimes see penalty shouts on TV and realise they dropped a clanger!

    I think Machida will win a rematch clearly but thats sport and to an extent, thats life.
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    Post  redmeanie77 Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:07 pm

    Big respect for Hamiltion for coming out and saying he got it wrong, of course it changes nothing now but still.....

    However i dont buy into his excuse that he had his view obstructed in 4th round, that was clear win for Shogun who was in control for majority of 5 mins, if something gets in your way then you miss a punch or 2 before adjusting your position to see better right?

    The only way he thought Machida won the 4th round is if he had his head under his table for the whole round.
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    Post  redmeanie77 Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:31 pm

    Im not sure Machida will clearly beat Shogun "again". Shogun performance wasnt a fluke or anything, and Machida did not simply have a bad day that day. The reason why he wasnt as impressive as he was in his previous fights was because of Shogun.

    I'm sure Machida and his team could analyze the fight and try to work on somethings to improve in the rematch, but Shogun will also be doing the same also. And Machida wont have his unbeatable aura over Shogun which i think is a factor on Machida's recent opponents.


    One of the things that was said after 104, was that Oh the judges have robbed Shogun, now he lost his chance to beat Machida and ever be champion. I dont buy into this at all. Had the judges awarded Shogun victory no one would have complained and no one would think Machida is better than Shogun and Shogun just got lucky (ok im sure 1 or two will Wink )
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    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:03 pm

    I really can't tell who won that fight, sometimes I think Shogun, sometimes Machida.

    Judges really should have monitors, that suprising.

    I have no idea what would happen in a rematch, Machida has thus far not shown the ability to adapt to new gameplans when losing. When he was getting legkicked, he didn't change his style which is not a good sign. Still his counter punching makes it a very dangerous fight for Shogun. Don't think you can say there is clear favourite going into the rematch.
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Dec 30, 2009 4:21 am

    The judge coming out and changing his opinion MONTHS after the fight makes it laughable.

    He's trying to make himself popular because of the amount of shit Cecil Peoples has taken over the fight. This clown has barely been given any stick over his initial (correct) decision.

    Machida didn't change his style because he didn't need to.
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    Post  Moose Stuff For Money... Sun Jan 10, 2010 7:52 pm

    “I won’t bow my head in shame. There was very little wrong with our strategy. We had images of Shogun’s fights, which we studied beforehand. That strategic edge started to fade because Lyoto didn’t execute the low kick defense we practiced and allowed Shogun to set the rhythm. Our group didn’t achieve proper harmonious communication with Lyoto, who was lost at times. Up until the third round, we were fine. However, the fourth round was tied, and the fifth went to Shogun… A vital part of Lyoto’s game, since his power comes from his legs, and Shogun killed his leg. At anyrate the experience was good for us, since we’d never dealt with adversity. Karate also has it’s weaknesses, but noone had seen them up until now. Shogun exploited them, and deserves congratulations. That’s exactly what I told him after the fight when he was crying, pissed that he didn’t win… Had Shogun fought as he normally does, with his arms, Lyoto would’ve knocked him out in the first or second round. We did not expect him to kick that much and neglected the karate defense, which is different from the muay thai defense. Before the kick, you move up and stop the attack. We already planned a different strategy for the next time, studying everything.”
    - Yoshizo Machida via PVT Magazine.
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:12 pm

    Machidas dad thinks he lost!!!??
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:30 pm

    He doesn't say that at all.
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:50 pm

    Oh yeah missread that... Fuck him Shogun won Twisted Evil


    only winding you up Anfield!!! Is Machida your fravorite fighter these days?
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:55 pm

    Yeah. I love watching him fight. He's so technically and he's almost artistic in the way he fights!
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:57 pm

    Hamilton should actually go back and watch the first round again, because he got that one wrong too.

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