UFC 139 Main Event: Dan Henderson VS Shogun Rua

Mryzyz wrote:That was gassed due to weight cut Henderson (like unfit Shogun, this is a totally legitimate excuse by me)

No excuse is legitimate in terms of "gassing". He took the fight at that weight, had a ten week training camp and new from day 1 what weight he had to be. Fighters who dont make weight or have to cut alot of weight at the last min have nobody to blaim but themselves. If they cant do it, dont agree to the fight, if they can, then dont whine about it when you do loose. The reason he lost is when he went down to that weight, shields was better than him. He may have tired, but he should of done more preperation for a longer fight against a guy like shields. He knew who he had to beat, what his strengths were and the weight they had agreed to fight at, he dropped to that weight, and lost. I have no sympathy for fighters who "gas". Injuries are different and are a natural part of mma. Hendo v shogun, gotta be shogun for me, dont know why, just think he will get the job done, tko 2nd. Cain v jds - cain ko - 3rd. The guy is a monster. I backed brock v cain a i thought the sheer size of lesnar might have been enough to over power cain, but he is smart and accurate and quick. Really hope he is champ for a long time to come.

they love there excuses on here manny

dnt worry bout cain mate banker

Mannpagejackson wrote:

Mryzyz wrote:That was gassed due to weight cut Henderson (like unfit Shogun, this is a totally legitimate excuse by me)

No excuse is legitimate in terms of "gassing". He took the fight at that weight, had a ten week training camp and new from day 1 what weight he had to be. Fighters who dont make weight or have to cut alot of weight at the last min have nobody to blaim but themselves. If they cant do it, dont agree to the fight, if they can, then dont whine about it when you do loose. The reason he lost is when he went down to that weight, shields was better than him. He may have tired, but he should of done more preperation for a longer fight against a guy like shields. He knew who he had to beat, what his strengths were and the weight they had agreed to fight at, he dropped to that weight, and lost. I have no sympathy for fighters who "gas". Injuries are different and are a natural part of mma. Hendo v shogun, gotta be shogun for me, dont know why, just think he will get the job done, tko 2nd. Cain v jds - cain ko - 3rd. The guy is a monster. I backed brock v cain a i thought the sheer size of lesnar might have been enough to over power cain, but he is smart and accurate and quick. Really hope he is champ for a long time to come.

To be fair, I never heard a word of complaint from Hendo, and regardless of what anyone thinks, weight cut is an issue for someone of Hendos age and natural size, you do make a legitimate point though. I still cannot see how folk are picking a stoppage for Shogun, when Hendo is yet to be stopped? Let's face it, he's faced some decent strikers in the past.

With regards to JDS v Cain, I cannot see that being anything other than an open fight. JDS is a very destructive striker and has a great record, unbeaten in 4 years, and Cain has that amazing cardio and wrestling base. I'm rooting for Cain and hope that the lay off hasn't affected him too much, I would have liked him to have an easier defence first time up though.

But, hey, what do I know?

I do think that if Shogun gets Hendo in the same position that Fedor had him in, it's game over.

Hendo has never been KOed, but he is hittable and has been rocked and knocked down multiple times, and Shogun is the most effective finisher of downed and dazed opponents in the game.

Henderson has been knocked down in his past two fights by fighters who are not as good as Shogun standing at the moment.

Shogun TKO.

2brutal wrote:Sheldan i meant the bit where he sed he wins by however he wants And the comment about hendos chin why wud i agree with anfield about excuses when he is the main man for that and i call him on it every time ie the bones shogun fight among others
Re cain no chance wait and see one sidedbeat down

So in your expert opinion Shogun was at 100% for the Bones fight??

sunthunder wrote:Henderson has been knocked down in his past two fights by fighters who are not as good as Shogun standing at the moment.

Both of them hit MUCH harder than Shogun.

Shogun was a good finisher of downed opponents in pride when he could stomp and soccer kick. Hendo is kocking him out simple as that and I love shogun... Hendo is at the top of his game at the moment and as far as I know hasnt had any major injuries for a while. I see him giving Bones a good go!

injuries wise who knows mate
he looked fat bad love handles

pinsman wrote:Shogun was a good finisher of downed opponents in pride when he could stomp and soccer kick. Hendo is kocking him out simple as that and I love shogun... Hendo is at the top of his game at the moment and as far as I know hasnt had any major injuries for a while. I see him giving Bones a good go!

totally agree with this mate.

No disrespect to Hendo but I think this is a very tough fight for him. Shogun looks like he is back to near his best, judging by his last fight. I think he's far too quick for Hendo and he's better standing and a better grappler.

I think people are getting carried away with Hendo's win over Fedor. Shogun would have beat Fedor as well IMO. As great as a fighter Fedor was, he has not been himself for a while and just look at what happened to the other two fighters who beat Fedor in there next fights.

Hendo struggled with Feijo before he chocked. Shogun is much better. Shogun to win by being the first person ever to stop Hendo by stoppage in the 3rd or 4th.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:No disrespect to Hendo but I think this is a very tough fight for him. Shogun looks like he is back to near his best, judging by his last fight. I think he's far too quick for Hendo and he's better standing and a better grappler.

I think people are getting carried away with Hendo's win over Fedor. Shogun would have beat Fedor as well IMO. As great as a fighter Fedor was, he has not been himself for a while and just look at what happened to the other two fighters who beat Fedor in there next fights.

Hendo struggled with Feijo before he chocked. Shogun is much better. Shogun to win by being the first person ever to stop Hendo by stoppage in the 3rd or 4th.

I'm not sure that TKO'ing a more or less past it forrest who hasn't looked good for a while now shows he's back to his best. Also he was never even tested in that fight so we have no indication of his gas-tank etc since the bones fight...

efils_god wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:No disrespect to Hendo but I think this is a very tough fight for him. Shogun looks like he is back to near his best, judging by his last fight. I think he's far too quick for Hendo and he's better standing and a better grappler.

I think people are getting carried away with Hendo's win over Fedor. Shogun would have beat Fedor as well IMO. As great as a fighter Fedor was, he has not been himself for a while and just look at what happened to the other two fighters who beat Fedor in there next fights.

Hendo struggled with Feijo before he chocked. Shogun is much better. Shogun to win by being the first person ever to stop Hendo by stoppage in the 3rd or 4th.

I'm not sure that TKO'ing a more or less past it forrest who hasn't looked good for a while now shows he's back to his best. Also he was never even tested in that fight so we have no indication of his gas-tank etc since the bones fight...

You're right, it's hard to know if he will ever be back to his proper best. However after the Jones fight I was fearing the worst. As it turned out, it seems like the Jones fight was just the effects of a long layoff- or so it seems. It's hard to judge Shogun's gas tank. No one expected Shogun to have as good conditioning going into the first Machida fight as he did. Could be the same situation when he fights Hendo.

Im picking Hendo to win here, think he is on better form. At the end of the day he KO'd Fedor in his last fight Shogun KO'd Forrest (a really out of sorts forrest at that)

Shogun totally folded against Bones in a way Hendo never would, Hendo has more heart and I reckon at 205 Shogun will tire 1st. Hendo has a better chin and hits harder, as well as a wrestling advantage I think he is physically stronger.

Shogun has better technical striking and BJJ but isnt a lot quicker these days IMO.

Seems to me Hendo should be seen as the farovite going into this one. Cant wait for it though.

Loving this fight and Wandy vs Cung, I think Belfort would have demolished Cung but not sure about Wanderlei these days, Cungs Striking is great and Wands chin is gone.

rudeboyben84 wrote:Im picking Hendo to win here, think he is on better form. At the end of the day he KO'd Fedor in his last fight Shogun KO'd Forrest (a really out of sorts forrest at that)

Shogun totally folded against Bones in a way Hendo never would, Hendo has more heart and I reckon at 205 Shogun will tire 1st. Hendo has a better chin and hits harder, as well as a wrestling advantage I think he is physically stronger.

Shogun has better technical striking and BJJ but isnt a lot quicker these days IMO.

Seems to me Hendo should be seen as the farovite going into this one. Cant wait for it though.

Loving this fight and Wandy vs Cung, I think Belfort would have demolished Cung but not sure about Wanderlei these days, Cungs Striking is great and Wands chin is gone.

Ben going against Shogun!? What next Anfield supporting Bisping?

Would you not agree that Fedor was also out of sorts? Shogun has had a past of folding in fights, it doesn't make you a bad fighter. Sometimes fighters just mentally break, it's happened to fighters like GSP and Overoid in the past as well. What about Hendo vs Shields, Hendo folded quite badly in that fight IMO.

I think people are underestimating Shogun's gas tank. Same thing was being said before the Machida fight. While Hendo has better chin and hits harder, Shogun is a much better all round striker. Hendo has the same advantages over Anderson Silva, I know who I'd back standing there. Strength has never been that much of a problem for Shogun, he has fought and schooled much stronger fighters than Hendo in the past. Randelman, Coleman, Arona, Rampage and Overeem to name a few.

Shogun looked quick against Griffin, who is probably quicker than Hendo.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

rudeboyben84 wrote:Im picking Hendo to win here, think he is on better form. At the end of the day he KO'd Fedor in his last fight Shogun KO'd Forrest (a really out of sorts forrest at that)

Shogun totally folded against Bones in a way Hendo never would, Hendo has more heart and I reckon at 205 Shogun will tire 1st. Hendo has a better chin and hits harder, as well as a wrestling advantage I think he is physically stronger.

Shogun has better technical striking and BJJ but isnt a lot quicker these days IMO.

Seems to me Hendo should be seen as the farovite going into this one. Cant wait for it though.

Loving this fight and Wandy vs Cung, I think Belfort would have demolished Cung but not sure about Wanderlei these days, Cungs Striking is great and Wands chin is gone.

Ben going against Shogun!? What next Anfield supporting Bisping?

Would you not agree that Fedor was also out of sorts? Shogun has had a past of folding in fights, it doesn't make you a bad fighter. Sometimes fighters just mentally break, it's happened to fighters like GSP and Overoid in the past as well. What about Hendo vs Shields, Hendo folded quite badly in that fight IMO.

I think people are underestimating Shogun's gas tank. Same thing was being said before the Machida fight. While Hendo has better chin and hits harder, Shogun is a much better all round striker. Hendo has the same advantages over Anderson Silva, I know who I'd back standing there. Strength has never been that much of a problem for Shogun, he has fought and schooled much stronger fighters than Hendo in the past. Randelman, Coleman, Arona, Rampage and Overeem to name a few.

Shogun looked quick against Griffin, who is probably quicker than Hendo.

I just think Hendo has more tools to win, He is more likely to win via KO or Points I reckon and Shogun hasnt been using those subs latley. Fedor was out for sorts because he was coming off 2 losses I suppose but Forrest would loose to Werdum and Bigfoot too, Fedor looked himself, quick looping punches etc.. Forrest was so so stiff and nervous and had said he had lost love for the sport in interviews before.

I doubt Shoguns heart and conditioning, he is too unpredictalbe, Coleman, Forrest 1, Jones... he has looked bad a few times recently.

Hendo had a blip against Shields but he isnt at 185 where he gassed nearly finishing him.

Its not a sure thing in my head but Shogun has been hot and cold too much recently, Hendo has only looked bad when a weight cut has been an issue. Im not hugely confident Hendo wins but id have to put him as the favorite.

How you got Wandy vs Cung going mate?

rudeboyben84 wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:

rudeboyben84 wrote:Im picking Hendo to win here, think he is on better form. At the end of the day he KO'd Fedor in his last fight Shogun KO'd Forrest (a really out of sorts forrest at that)

Shogun totally folded against Bones in a way Hendo never would, Hendo has more heart and I reckon at 205 Shogun will tire 1st. Hendo has a better chin and hits harder, as well as a wrestling advantage I think he is physically stronger.

Shogun has better technical striking and BJJ but isnt a lot quicker these days IMO.

Seems to me Hendo should be seen as the farovite going into this one. Cant wait for it though.

Loving this fight and Wandy vs Cung, I think Belfort would have demolished Cung but not sure about Wanderlei these days, Cungs Striking is great and Wands chin is gone.

Ben going against Shogun!? What next Anfield supporting Bisping?

Would you not agree that Fedor was also out of sorts? Shogun has had a past of folding in fights, it doesn't make you a bad fighter. Sometimes fighters just mentally break, it's happened to fighters like GSP and Overoid in the past as well. What about Hendo vs Shields, Hendo folded quite badly in that fight IMO.

I think people are underestimating Shogun's gas tank. Same thing was being said before the Machida fight. While Hendo has better chin and hits harder, Shogun is a much better all round striker. Hendo has the same advantages over Anderson Silva, I know who I'd back standing there. Strength has never been that much of a problem for Shogun, he has fought and schooled much stronger fighters than Hendo in the past. Randelman, Coleman, Arona, Rampage and Overeem to name a few.

Shogun looked quick against Griffin, who is probably quicker than Hendo.

I just think Hendo has more tools to win, He is more likely to win via KO or Points I reckon and Shogun hasnt been using those subs latley. Fedor was out for sorts because he was coming off 2 losses I suppose but Forrest would loose to Werdum and Bigfoot too, Fedor looked himself, quick looping punches etc.. Forrest was so so stiff and nervous and had said he had lost love for the sport in interviews before.

I doubt Shoguns heart and conditioning, he is too unpredictalbe, Coleman, Forrest 1, Jones... he has looked bad a few times recently.

Hendo had a blip against Shields but he isnt at 185 where he gassed nearly finishing him.

Its not a sure thing in my head but Shogun has been hot and cold too much recently, Hendo has only looked bad when a weight cut has been an issue. Im not hugely confident Hendo wins but id have to put him as the favorite.

How you got Wandy vs Cung going mate?

I'm not sure I agree Hendo has more ways to win. Hendo can win by KO if he catches Shogun with his hands down or he can out wrestle him for 5 rounds. Remember Hendo's conditioning isn't great either, even at 205. He gassed quite badly against Franklin if you remember. Shogun can win by TKO, points by out striking Hendo or a sub. You are right, Shogun hasn't looked for a sub for a while, but that's because he just loves the KO. If the opportunity comes he'll take it. If Shogun starts throwing leg kicks like he did against Machida and connects, that could cause huge problems for Hendo.

Shogun has looked bad because of his injuries. Look at what he looked like against Machida without injuries. He looked like the Shogun of 2005. Also losing to Jones is nothing to be ashamed of either IMO, fit or not. I reckon he would beat Hendo as well. Hendo looked quite bad against Feijao in the first round. I like Feijao but for me he is a lesser Shogun and he was beating Hendo before he got stars in his eyes.

I don't know I just think people overlook Shogun a bit because of his injuries. On his day he's right up there with GSP, Fedor and Silva IMO.

As for Le vs Wandi, have to say I'm worried slightly. I love Wandy and don't really like Le but this could be a bad fight for Wandi. Le's striking is just so unpredictable and the less said about Wandi's chin the better. The thing is, Le isn't much of a brawler and doesn't have massive power in his like Leben. If Wandi bum rushes Le he could knock him out. I also think the longer the fight goes, the more it favors Wandi.Le's gas tank isn't the best. My head says Le KO 1st, my head says Wandi TKO 2nd.

I'm not convinced Henderson has an edge in durability. He'd have gone down from the first flying knee Jones landed on Shogun and would have been finished by ground and pound Jones was laying on him in the third. He completely folded against Anderson, got lit up, panicked and pulled guard, then gave his back up. What Henderson does well is go down voluntarily before he's really badly hurt and gives himself a chance to recover on the ground. But he's still been straight dropped several times in his career. And if Carlos Newton can drop him and break his jaw than Shogun can knock him out.

The H-bomb thing has got completely out of hand. He's had a late flush of knockouts against not the best set of opponents, but throughout his career he's been made to look ordinary and ineffective on his feet as many times as he's knocked his opponents out. It's amazing if you look back at his career how many times he's essentially resorted to sporadic episodes of lay and pray to win fights. His top position game is really not very effective. He can't pass guard or lay serious beatings on people from the guard.

obviously raised a few eyebrows the annoncement of this one.

IMo the problem with shogun since his arrival in the ufc is you never know what your going to get .Wether its lack of motivation or injuries he has become a very hit and miss fighter his performances are irratic to say least .

Hendo seesm to be on a run of form but i do think hendo is made for shogun, a fighter that will stand in front of shogun not exactly elusive either . Am not reading into either fighters last victory as fedor looks a fighter on the turn and forrest is overated imo.

A motivated shogun beats hendo either ko or sub ,,,,thats if he's motivated !!!!

Welcome to the forum mate.

What you're saying definitely makes sense. If Shogun is fit and motivated then I see the fight as 50/50. However, if he's not then I would tend to favour Hendo.

Very hard fight to call!!

I dont see a Shogun KO win no matter what, Hendo is so so tough to finish, even if he does get Rocked or hurt its hard to chase him down and finsih, Wandy in his prime couldnt get it done when he hurt him.

Maby Shogun to win Sub, Maby Pound him with Kicks and slow him down to decision him but I cant see a KO, Hendo has been in the game so long of course he has been rocked and hurt before but at the end of the day he has eaten absolute Bombs from the likes of Rampage, Wandy, Belfort and Fedor and survived them.

I love both fighters I dont mind who wins but in my head Hendo is a 60/40 favorite because I reckon Shoguns form is unpredictable. He made less of a fight with Jones that Rampage did and basically quit.

I agree a motivated 100% Shogun should beat Hendo butI dont think a fight with the worst Forrest we have ever seen showed he is on form. Hendo KO's 4 of his last 5 opponents, he has to be seen as on better form.

Suppose we will know more when we see who Shogun trains with, was he at Kings MMA for the Forrest fight? for all his other fights he was like Lesnar and Rampage (if not worse) training on his own terms, a big fish in a little pond... back with some old Chuteboxe pals is the way to go if he wants to win.

Thats a good point about shoguns previous training regime , i had read somewhere he now has his own gym which he trains in which is not always the best background for pro fighters.

Hendo is a clever fighter and when hurt will try to get the fight on the ground ,i just think hendo is made for shogun.I do think the lhw division needs a fit motivated shogun as alot of known proven fighters are heading towards twilight of the careers if not retired already.
Hard to call this one tho gonna be interesting

I don't see a Shogun KO, but I can definitely see Shogun stopping Hendo. Shogun has more than enough power to drop Hendo, and the speed advantage he is going to have is massive.

I really think people are exaggerating poor performances from Shogun in the past. In he went into the Jones, Griffin I and Coleman fights in terrible shape and he mentally broke. If Shogun come into the Hendo fight like he came into the Machida fight then I don't think Hendo has a chance.

The only people that have dropped Hendo all hit much harder than Shogun.