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    Eleven Ways Of Looking At Fedor's Loss

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    Post  Sheldan Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:52 am

    So this is from mmafighting.com who give 11 ways of looking at Fedor's loss.

    I. Fedor is the best there ever was. One loss -- or even two straight losses -- doesn't change that. Who else has that kind of win streak? Who else is as well-rounded, or as dominant? Who walked through Cro Cop's hardest shots and shook off a Kevin Randleman suplex? One man, and his name is Fedor. The more the UFC heavyweight strap gets passed around like an iPod at a white elephant gift exchange, the more you'll come to realize just how glorious Fedor's run was.

    II. Fedor is a great from another era of MMA, and that era is now over. His reign arguably began when he defeated Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira for the Pride heavyweight championship in 2003. Back then, fighters were still more likely to specialize in one discipline above all others, and the few heavyweights who soared well above the 250 pound mark were often oafs who relied on strength at the expense of skill. The world of the MMA heavyweight has changed drastically since then, and still Fedor managed to hold on to his top spot for the better part of the last decade. Who else from that era managed to be so great for so long?

    III. The size difference was simply too much. Silva weighed in 34 pounds heavier than Fedor, and likely added another twenty or so before he hit the cage on fight night. Maybe Fedor could afford to give up that kind of weight to the Zuluzinho's and Hong Man Choi's of the world, but Silva presents a different challenge. If Fedor were a young fighter starting out today, he'd likely do so as a light heavyweight. For better or worse, he preferred to compete as an undersized heavyweight, and it finally caught up with him.

    IV. Everyone gets old eventually – even the great ones. Fedor turned 34 in September. If you're a lawyer, that's no big deal. If you're a fighter, it's about the point where the reflexes slow and the injuries of the past begin to remind you of all the years you spent using your body as a wrecking ball. Sure, Cain Velasquez has it all now, but he's 28 and has been doing this less than five years. Ask him how he feels when he's more than a decade in. Ask him after he's had his nose and hand broken more times than he cares to count. See if he's not a little weary of it all by then, too.

    V. Fedor is done. When you get beat up like he did on Saturday night and your first thought is of retirement rather than revenge, better hang it up quick before something bad happens. Lately he's been edging towards the door in interviews, and while M-1 Global might not want to lose their meal ticket, a reluctant fighter is a walking disaster. It's better to be no fighter at all than an indecisive one.

    VI. Fedor's not even close to done. This loss will reignite the fire in him, maybe convince him to switch up his training, and before you know it he'll be cold-clocking people on his way up the ranks again. Just you wait.

    VII. Fedor didn't fall apart all at once; he declined gradually, but against lesser competition. The last time Fedor fought more than twice in a year was in 2005, and then only if you include his New Year's Eve freak show fight with Zuluzinho. Since then he's beaten Brett Rogers, Andrei Arlovski, Tim Sylvia, Hong Man Choi, Matt Lindland, Mark Hunt, and Mark Coleman. Several of them seemed at or near the top when Fedor faced them, but in retrospect that list seems less impressive (For instance, Sylvia was a former champ when Fedor beat him, but he was also 1-2 in his last three fights). You can always poke holes in someone's resume if you want to badly enough, but it's possible that Fedor's pace and quality of competition helped hide the natural atrophy of his abilities, at least for a little while.

    VIII. "Bigfoot" Silva is better than we thought he was. Aside from an early loss to Eric Pele, his only defeat came in a close decision against Fabricio Werdum, who is also better than we thought he was. It's not like Fedor is losing to chumps; he's falling to guys who, either from poor promotion or a lack of awareness on the part of the fans and media, have flown under the radar. Consecutive losses to guys like that aren't anything to be ashamed of, or any reason to feel like retirement is the only choice left.

    IX. Fedor fans are right to scorn Dana White's Twitter response. Not surprisingly, the UFC president used Emelianenko's most recent loss to claim that he was nothing but a paper tiger bolstered by a clueless media. Of course, if White had successfully signed Emelianenko on one of several attempts, it's not to hard to imagine that his take on Fedor's past accomplishments would have changed in a hurry. That so many fans rushed to condemn White's remarks on Twitter is a sign of how social media allows the collective voice of the masses to rival that of the powerful few. It also helps keep those inclined toward revisionist history just a tad more honest.

    X. Fedor fans are so prone to hero worship that they miss the bigger picture. It's ironic that Fedor, who shows so little emotion and seems at times equally confused and embarrassed by the public's fascination with him, inspires an almost cult-like zeal among his supporters. It's almost as if they feel the need to express the emotions that he can't, or at least won't. It also makes them mythologize him to the point where they soften his career missteps and lash out angrily at anyone who dares to suggest that he is anything less than a living god. Fedor is human, and he is flawed. To acknowledge as much would actually make his accomplishments in the sport more and not less impressive. In other words, let's not pretend that his 31 victories aren't padded with a few easy marks, or that his willingness to let M-1 Global call the shots didn't prohibit us from seeing some of the fights we had hoped for.

    XI. Fedor didn't make the appropriate adjustments, and he paid for it. After his first real loss in June, Emelianenko said he made no serious changes to his training regimen. That could be because he regarded it as a symptom of one careless mistake, or it could be because, at 34, he only knows one way to train and has no interest in learning a new one. Regardless, if you're not improving as a fighter, you're falling behind. Fedor lost and then decided to keep doing what he'd always done, so he lost again. It's as simple as that.
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    Post  manschesthair_utd Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:57 am

    ill go with:
    1
    4
    8
    9
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    Post  superman_punch Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:30 am

    Dana knows his statements are going to wind people up but he doesn't care and was probably the happiest person in the world or second to bigfoot on Saturday night.

    He's the one that got away and Dana can't accept that, instead he turns to insulting him or his legacy at any opportunity.

    Bigfoot far outweighed him on the night but let's wait and see how the other HW's fair against his size before blaming fedors loss mainly on that.

    Fact is fighting has, is and always will evolve and in a sport that is so brutal and has such a fine line between success and failure anyone and everyone will eventually lose. Bigfoot earned that victory and was as convincing if not more convincing than Werdum in his win over fedor.

    Fedors age isn't a factor but his fight mileage certainly is. Its up there with the best of them, look what's happened to big nog of late. His mileage is off the chart too and I'm sure another straight loss for minotauro will raise questions about his future.
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    Post  Sly Uses Mon Feb 14, 2011 11:56 am

    manschesthair_utd wrote:ill go with:
    1
    4
    8
    9
    this, + I agree with no.3
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    Post  Cowboys From Hell Mon Feb 14, 2011 1:10 pm

    manschesthair_utd wrote:ill go with:
    1
    4
    8
    9

    Same here.
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    Post  Sly Uses Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:13 pm

    thinking about it, I think Fedor's gameplan was pretty much 100% sound for this fight. He went out and tried to finish Bigfoot quickly, and maybe in his prime he wouldve pulled it off idk, but the chin and huge reach advantage really helped Bigfoot. He cant stay in fights for long periods of time like he used to and now just tries to finish asap. No way to stuff the takedowns with any regularity when they go into later rounds against someone as big and skilled as Bigfoot, and Bigfoot on top = nightmare for even a prime Fedor. Fedor off his back has amazing hips but isnt impossible to pass on, and then the size difference really counted there.

    Im really interested to see how Bigfoot vs. Barnett would work out. I think prime CC wouldve lost to Bigfoot and prime Nog wouldve beaten him too.
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Mon Feb 14, 2011 3:42 pm

    Bigfoot doesnt get much credit, the guy should have beat Werdum if he didnt choke, he is 285lbs, taller and rangier than Lesnar, has a bjj BB, outboxed Arlovski and can hit a flying knees... there isnt many holes in the big mans game.

    I think Fedor has problems in the cage especially because there isnt many Hw's who arent stronger than him and could wall n stall him.... I gave him the 1st round but Bigfoot fought a great fight and got the job done.

    I dont think Fedor is shot to shit, I just think he is oldschool and hasnt changed his training since he began his career. His own team critisized him for not traininig right for the AA fight and he says he hasnt changed anything since. Out in the wilderness in Russia not mixing with the rest of the MMA community I think the game is starting to pass him by a little (His Boxing and Wrestling as well as Physical condition could do with improving)

    I think Bigfoot would have got sparked against Prime CC particularly in a ring because he isnt the hardest to hit sometimes, but I think he would have been able to avoid Prim Nogs subs and win with GnP from top position.
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Mon Feb 14, 2011 4:47 pm

    For me, the only one that's wholly true is number 3.


    It pisses me off seeing people come in at fight time like 30 pounds over the weight limit, in my eyes thats a form of cheating.
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    Post  Mryzyz Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:10 pm

    He got mounted by a BJJ blackbelt who was nearly 60lbs heavier than him.

    Fedor is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. No other Light Heavyweight can claim to have been the #1 Heavyweight in the world for 7 years.
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:14 pm

    Mryzyz wrote:He got mounted by a BJJ blackbelt who was nearly 60lbs heavier than him.

    Fedor is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. No other Light Heavyweight can claim to have been the #1 Heavyweight in the world for 7 years.


    That's like Frankie Edgar fighting Lyoto Machida... What is even the point of having a weight limit?


    Couldn't agree more about the second part of your post.
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:42 pm

    The_Axe_Emperor wrote:
    Mryzyz wrote:He got mounted by a BJJ blackbelt who was nearly 60lbs heavier than him.

    Fedor is the greatest Light Heavyweight of all time. No other Light Heavyweight can claim to have been the #1 Heavyweight in the world for 7 years.


    That's like Frankie Edgar fighting Lyoto Machida... What is even the point of having a weight limit?


    Couldn't agree more about the second part of your post.

    Bigfoot made the 265lbs weight limit, he diets and eats right and trains hard, Fedor doesnt, his own camp critisezed his training and he admits he doesnt really change his diet. In short Bigfoot worked harder and it paid off.

    I dont know if its being Lazy or just out of touch with the MMA world but Fedor is the pudgiest ranked fighter across any devision and alarm bells should have been ringing when he met Lhw's like Tito who are much bigger than him. Maby Fedor couldnt be arsed cutting weight but you cant hold it against Bigfoot who works hard to make 265 because there is no money is Shw fights.
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:50 pm

    I'm not trying to downplay his win in any way, but can you answer my question? Because i'm at a loss to figure out the purpose of a weight limit.

    Would it not make sense for the weigh ins to be the day of the fight, say, a few hours beforehand?
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Mon Feb 14, 2011 5:55 pm

    I think the weighin on the night of the fight would be worse for the fans. To make the limit 90% of fighters feel drained, be it Evans cutting 5-10lbs or bigger fighters cutting more, your body feels weak when you are dehydrated and they need recovery time before the weigh in and the fight.
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:03 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:I think the weighin on the night of the fight would be worse for the fans. To make the limit 90% of fighters feel drained, be it Evans cutting 5-10lbs or bigger fighters cutting more, your body feels weak when you are dehydrated and they need recovery time before the weigh in and the fight.



    On the other hand, would it not stop fighters cutting ridiculous amounts of weight, and therefore not being gassed, hence giving the fans more exciting fights?
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    Post  rudeboyben84 Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:07 pm

    Thats a good point mate, I suppose fighters fighting closer to their walking around weight means they have more energy so in that way im all for it... But its a hard call because theres huge guys like Forrest who can fight at full pelt for 25 mins if needs be, are there that many examples of big weight cutters who are notorious gassers?
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Mon Feb 14, 2011 6:12 pm

    Also having the weigh ins the night of the fight, and therefore reducing the amount of fighters cutting large amounts of weight, will stop size being such a big factor in fights, like Fedor- Silva.


    Sure, some fighters can cut huge amounts of weight and still fight their heart out for the full 25, but people like Griffin are rare. For every Forrest Griffin, there's about two or three Shane Carwins.
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    Post  manschesthair_utd Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:23 pm

    putting a weight limit on heavyweights is retarded.

    i cannot think of a reason for it.
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    Post  Sly Uses Mon Feb 14, 2011 7:48 pm

    after a point you have to say that being athletic at over 265 like Bigfoot is is a gift and one of his traits/skills which he brings with him to the fight. I dont think there should be a cap on the division as there isnt enough talent over 265 to warrant it.
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    Post  Mryzyz Mon Feb 14, 2011 8:08 pm

    If Strikeforce are serious about keeping Fedor around it might be a good idea for them to create a 230lbs crusierweight division (KOTC has one)
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    Post  kavik2 Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:26 pm

    I think a cruiserweight division would add to the competition in MMA, are people naturally against it becuase it has been the unfashionably division in boxing? The fighters competing in a division make its relevancy especially in a relatively new support like MMA not bound by tradiition. It is a massive jump from 205 to 265, and now adays with modern sience, training and nutrition.

    If there was a 230 division with Fedor, JDS, Cain, Jon Jones, Shogun, Arlovski etc with the 265 division for the genuine super heavies Brock, Carwin, Big Foot, Overeem. The cruiser weight Divsion would make its mark.

    There is very little size difference at the lower weights.

    Regarding Fedor, anyone else think his legs looked skinny? he was shaped like a frog. Not trying to knock him, one of my all time faves,but he looked podgy in the middle for the rogers fight, and with only 2-3 minutes of fighting in the 2 years previous to the Rogers fight, he does seem to have lost some fire, or competitve edge at a time when he needs it more than ever fighting opponents with better conditioning and a fraction of the ringwear
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    Post  sunthunder Tue Feb 15, 2011 12:40 am

    I'm not against the idea of a cruiserweight division, but I don't think it makes sense when it's brought up as a solution for the woes of guys like Fedor or Couture. Yeah he wouldn't have to fight Bigfoot, but just like every other division there will still be guys who cut 15-20lbs of water to make weight and weigh considerably more on fight night. Even making a division at Fedors natural weight, he'll still be out sized.

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