Strongest Heavyweight division (Josh Barnett)

First post although I often read.

Just a quick question. In light of recent reports that Josh Barnett is on the verge of signing with Strikeforce. Who do you guys feel has the strongest heavyweight division at present?

Taking in to account only the higher ranked heavyweight fighters, their fighters are the following:

UFC --------- Strikeforce

Lesner -------- Overeem
Cain -------- Werdum
JDS -------- Fedor
Carwin -------- Barnett
Mir -------- Big Foot
Nelson -------- AA
Nog -------- Rogers

This is order in which I consider them to be ranked n their respective divisions. If they squared off in the above matches, who would you give the nod to overall??

Lesner v Overeem - I would give this to AO due to superior striking, grappling and similar size and stregth.

Cain v Werdum- FW could take this on the ground but with CV wresting background, I could see a cain ko.

JDS v Fedor - A good match up but I feel Fedor has the edge both standing and on the ground, his experiance could prove vital.

Carwin v Barnett - My money would be on JB, I believe JB would be able to take this to the mat and GnP a victory or take a UD.

Mir v Bigfoot - In my opinion Mir is vastly overrated and AS is very underated. I would give this to Bigfoot. I feel he has better striking and a better ground game.

Nelson v AA - AA has a recent victory over Nelson and again could go either way.I could however see RN taking it to the floor and getting a UD.

Nog v Rogers - Nog is a mma legend but way past his best. He would destroy Rogers on the floor but would he be able to get him down?? My call Rogers Ko as Nogs chin can no longer take punishment.

I have it 5 to 2 in favour of Strikeforce. Again this is my opinion only and I am only interested in other peoples opinions. Regarding JB to Strikeforce, there are numerous reports on the internet about a deal agreed in principal and to be signed soon.

Lesnar would murder Overeem IMO. Overeem has shown that he has no heart and with Lesnar on top pounding away on you that is a very bad place to be stuck. I see this fight going the same as Lesnar-Mir 2.

Cain vs Werdum is interesting but yet again i see this going like Lesnar-Mir 2. Cain being the big powerful wrestler with a dominating top game and Werdum being the BJJ wizard. I'd expect Cain to either TKO him in the first two rounds or take a dominating UD in the same manner of his fight with Kongo.

Think Fedor would take the fight with JDS but disagree with your take on the standup, JDS is way better on the feet IMO but i do see Fedor getting it to the ground and submitting the still quite green dos Santos in the second round.

Carwin- Barnett would be fun If Carwin sorts his cardio (unlikely i know, considering his size) i dont think Barnett would stand a chance in hell in this fight. Carwin is pretty much the nightmare matchup for Josh; superior wrestling and standup with TDD and a LOT of power. Hell, even if Carwin doesn't sort his cardio i think hes got more than enough to (T)KO Barnett in the first.

Mir- Silva is a fight i've wanted to see for a while actually. If im honest i think both are pretty overated, Mir moreso than Silva but thats obviously a result of the UFC hyping machine. I do fancy Silvas chances in this fight actually, i think his ground game is good enough to neutralize the threat Mir poses on the mat. Finally, and more importantly, Silvas standup is very good as we seen in his last fight as he soundly outstruck a world class striker in Arlovski, and as much as Goldie and Mir would like us ti believe, Mir's striking is not on the same level as Arlovskis. I say Silva by UD.

Nelson- Arlovski i have to agree i think unless Arlovski can stop the rot and actually pull a good performance out, then Nelson will take him down, control him and win the decision. Worth a note is how good Nelsons striking has looked recently and Arlovski is on the slide, i wouldn't rule out a Nelson KO, baring in my Roy's power and Arlovskis "chin". Nelson by UD is the most likely result though.

Again i agree with your take on the Nog- Rogers fight in the respect that if Nog gets him down the fight is his and if he doesnt then the fights Rogers. However i think Nog will be able to pull guard and submit the VASTLY overrated Rogers within a round.


So theres my take on the situation, i have it 5-2 to the UFC. However that is only in your matchups, and as we know, styles make fights. For example i think Werdum would beat Lesnar, Mir would beat Rogers, Overeem would beat Nelson etc. With that said, i do prefer the HW division scattered about like this, as it makes the forums so fun

The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Lesnar would murder Overeem IMO. Overeem has shown that he has no heart and with Lesnar on top pounding away on you that is a very bad place to be stuck. I see this fight going the same as Lesnar-Mir 2.

Cain vs Werdum is interesting but yet again i see this going like Lesnar-Mir 2. Cain being the big powerful wrestler with a dominating top game and Werdum being the BJJ wizard. I'd expect Cain to either TKO him in the first two rounds or take a dominating UD in the same manner of his fight with Kongo.

Think Fedor would take the fight with JDS but disagree with your take on the standup, JDS is way better on the feet IMO but i do see Fedor getting it to the ground and submitting the still quite green dos Santos in the second round.

Carwin- Barnett would be fun If Carwin sorts his cardio (unlikely i know, considering his size) i dont think Barnett would stand a chance in hell in this fight. Carwin is pretty much the nightmare matchup for Josh; superior wrestling and standup with TDD and a LOT of power. Hell, even if Carwin doesn't sort his cardio i think hes got more than enough to (T)KO Barnett in the first.

Mir- Silva is a fight i've wanted to see for a while actually. If im honest i think both are pretty overated, Mir moreso than Silva but thats obviously a result of the UFC hyping machine. I do fancy Silvas chances in this fight actually, i think his ground game is good enough to neutralize the threat Mir poses on the mat. Finally, and more importantly, Silvas standup is very good as we seen in his last fight as he soundly outstruck a world class striker in Arlovski, and as much as Goldie and Mir would like us ti believe, Mir's striking is not on the same level as Arlovskis. I say Silva by UD.

Nelson- Arlovski i have to agree i think unless Arlovski can stop the rot and actually pull a good performance out, then Nelson will take him down, control him and win the decision. Worth a note is how good Nelsons striking has looked recently and Arlovski is on the slide, i wouldn't rule out a Nelson KO, baring in my Roy's power and Arlovskis "chin". Nelson by UD is the most likely result though.

Again i agree with your take on the Nog- Rogers fight in the respect that if Nog gets him down the fight is his and if he doesnt then the fights Rogers. However i think Nog will be able to pull guard and submit the VASTLY overrated Rogers within a round.


So theres my take on the situation, i have it 5-2 to the UFC. However that is only in your matchups, and as we know, styles make fights. For example i think Werdum would beat Lesnar, Mir would beat Rogers, Overeem would beat Nelson etc. With that said, i do prefer the HW division scattered about like this, as it makes the forums so fun

I know the match ups are not the best, but I was trying to go with their current ranking within their orgs. It's good to see other peoples opinions and how they differ.

I can't however agree with Overeem v Lesner, Brock struggled to take Carwin down until he gassed and I would think he would get similar difficulties with AO. AO stand up is so much better I can't see anything other than a KO victory. If the Carwin/Lesner fight told us anything it's that Lesner is the only heavyweight more fearful of getting hit than AO. Lesners biggest win to date is against Carwin who I feel got showed up as nothing more than UFCs Rogers.

Fedor V JDS. When I made the call of Fedor having better stand up I was unsure, I feel we would need to see more of JDS to really gage where he is at in the rankings. When he fought Cro Cop he didn't look overly great and against a more confident Cro Cop he could have been caught cold. Close fight none the less.

Carwin V Barnett - Unless Carwin caught Barnett in the first/second it's Barnets fight. I know Shane has a good Wrestling background but JB is no slouch either. I still think JB would be able t outlast him and avoid a big shot long enough to take Carwin down and outlast him. And if Lesner can finish Carwin on the ground, JB definately can.

Rogers V Nog - I just can't see Nog getting him to the floor and that coupled with Nog liking to stand for a bit anyway (overconfidence striking)I can see him getting tagged. Nog is no doubt a beter all round fighter but he is way past his best. Mir wasn't known as a stand up fighter until he put Nog away. And I may be wrong on this but neither was Cain as far as I can remember. Nog also got picked apart on the feet by Timmeh and was lucky to win the fight. Timmeh got a lot of clean strikes through but lacks power, Rogers only needs to land one. Against anyone else on this list I would go against Rogers but against Nog I can't see past a KO.

So in short I am stiking with my origional picks.

I like:

Overeem. Top shelf striker and has looked great at HW, though his only top fight is against Rogers. Carwin, a technically inferior striker was able to rock Brock very early and I can see Overeem keeping it up long enough to do the same and with much more accurate striking I dont think he'd blow himself out. Least sure about this one.

Cain keeps it standing and blows Werdum out fairly easily.

Too many questions about JDS' general grappling ability for me to go for anyone but Fedor. Huge experience advantage and he has the potential to win the fight anywhere.

Axe Emperor, why do you think Carwin has superior wrestling? Ive never seen a showcase of his wrestling in MMA besides stuffing Lesnars takedowns. Gonzaga took him down I recall and Carwin couldnt take Mir down. I remember him takin Wain down but really I dont think the hype has lived up to reality in that department. Barnett beats Carwin imo, I think he can weather an early storm for a sub 2nd round.

Silva's a better striker than Mir and has got a good enough ground game not to get subbed, fairly sure he's a black belt and he didnt look too out of place on the mat against Werdum. Id fancy him in a decision, his wrestling ability could keep him up long enough.

Arlovski already KOd Nelson but AA has gotten worse since then and seems afraid to pull the trigger, so Ill go for Nelson.

Rogers KOs Nog, he hasnt got the chin to take the same kinda punishment he needs to get it to the mat.


5-2 SF


edit: sorry missed out some fights for some reason, editing..

Good Article mate, Welcome.


Lesnar vs Overeem, I think Overeem KO's Lesanr in a round, I think he hits as hard as Carwin but has Knees, Kicks and Elbows which would overwhelm Lesnar, plus is much quicker and more agile than Carwin who put Brock in trouble. I think a few good shots or a knee to the chin and Lesnar would be turtling up with Overeem raining down hell.

Werdum vs Cain is a very very close one. Im not totally sold on Cain yet, though Werdum was lucky to get through Gonzaga and Bigfoot and I think Cain can keep up the pace for as long as needs be. Cain UD

Carwin vs Barnett, Carwin looses to Barnett, Carwin WILL suffer from the same Shit cardio and I give Barnett credit to make it out of the 1st, Barnetts sub game is high level I think Carwin is a walk in the park for him. Barnett sub would 2.

Mir vs Bigfoot, Mir Batters Bigfoot from pillar to post mercylessly, Bigfoot is shit. Im a big fan but he isnt very physical for a man his size and showed lack of heart against Werdum, he just took his foot off the gas, a win over Arlovski is ok but I think even Rogers batters him. Bigfoot could use a bit more agression and speed. Look at what Mir did to Kongo on the feet... Mir TKO round 3

Fedor Subs JDS I reckon, I think in a year or 2 than JDS is going to the top and will look untouchable but while he is still a little green and isnt 265lbs I think its Fedors fight all days long

Nelson vs Arlovski, I see the same result, everyone is sucking Nelsons dick these days but he still got done in by BEN ROTHWELL, He has yet to get a big win in his MMA career. If the Arlovski that fought Bigfoot turned up he would still beat Nelson I reckon. Arlovski UD

Nog vs Rogers = Rogers having a punchers chance. Admittedly thats the best type of chance against Nog these days but despite getting done in badly by Cain and Mir who are top 5 the guys still smashed Randy to peices and Randy is a better fighter than Rogers. Nog 3rd round Sub

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Ive got it 4-3 to SF if Barnett was on their side but a pretty closely run thing.

Have you heard anything recently about Barnett going to SF? I really thought he wasnt fussed on fighting in the US, I honestly thought we wouldnt see him in the states again. Good news if he does go to SF, some great fights for him.

Iamfluffykins, I like the way you think and agree with your picks.

Ben - Inside MMA (not sure of their credibility) were claiming on Friday that JB has agreed terms and should be signing soon. I think it's a good pick up on their part and add him to the recent signings of Sergei and VO and as my picks show, I feel Strikeforce now have the upper hand regarding the heavyweight division.

That is some good news cheers for that Xmas, I missed last episode!! But great news if its true, Barnett will be a huge signing. Any of Sergi/Rogers/Bigfoot would make for a great fight for Barnetts debut.

Knowing Barnett he probabally would rather fight VO though!

SF has a quite deep Hw devision too apart from who you mentioned...

Ray Sefo
Bobby Lashley
Shane Del Rosario
Sergi Kharitonov
Valentijn Overeem
Lavar Johnson

Its Crazy to think that Monson (who doesnt need paid much) is still a free agent, the guy beat Sergi and has close enough to cracking the top 10 not so long ago.

Tim Sylvia is the other signing they should make for their Hw devision.

What other good free agents should SF look at signing? Ricco Rodrigez? PeeWee Herman isnt going back to Bellator? Maby Pedro Rizzo just for name recognition because he could still maby hang with the likes of Lolohea Mahe?

Monson would be a god signing and so would Sylvia, but I can see Timmeh asking for a large apperance fee.

I think Strikforce should start looking to boost other divisions. Their HW division is strong enough for now and they can start pushing through more up and comers.

They are also very strong at Middleweight despite the loss of Shields to the UFC. Shields is a talented fighter but lacks in entertainment to ever become a top draw and in Jacre Strikeforce have a better fighter anyway. Add in fighters like Mayhem, Kennedy,Le, Lawler, Manhoef, Smith etc they are not short of talent.

Their Lightwight division is also looking decent with Gil, Thompson,KJ Noons and Dreams LWs they can hold their own.

WW and LHW is where they struggle apart from Mo, Moussasi, Hendo, Babalu, Cavalcante at LHW there is little else. At WW there is Diaz, Heiron, Riggs, Cyborg and Zaramoski(sp?) and tahts about it.

Who is about at the lower weights to sign??

Daley - supposidly close according to him to signing with them but nothing offical.

Jardine - Would be handy to boost a very shallow division, but will never be top 10 again.

I know M1 have a very talented WW but his name is to hard to spell to even hazard a guess. Outside of those who is about?

At Ww
Daley
Karo Parisyan (though negotiations fell through)
Chonan
Nick Thompson

At Lhw
Jardine for sure if he wins his next one...
Arona if he doesnt go to UFC,
Soko vs Houston winner? Both?
Ryan Jimmo is a very good fighter http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Ryan-Jimmo-21044
Wilson Gouveia?
Glover Teixeira?

rudeboyben84 wrote:At Ww
Daley
Karo Parisyan (though negotiations fell through)
Chonan
Nick Thompson

At Lhw
Jardine for sure if he wins his next one...
Arona if he doesnt go to UFC,
Soko vs Houston winner? Both?
Ryan Jimmo is a very good fighter http://www.sherdog.com/fighter/Ryan-Jimmo-21044
Wilson Gouveia?
Glover Teixeira?

Daley would be good and from what he said in a recent interview its likely to happen.
Parisyan again would be a good fighter to add to the mix but he is unreliable due to his problems.
Don't know much about Chonen apart from his sub on AS. And the same with Thompson but he seems to have a good record and would add depth.

What about Filho and Kang?? Have they signed with anyone??

Arona sounds like it's UFC or nthing for him. I thought Soko had a contract with Strikeforce and Alexander would certainly add some depth and would be a good test for the younger fighters. Never heard f Jimmo but Gouveia and Teixeira would be decent signings.

What abut Leites??

There are a few good fighters left availiable and I only hope Strikeforce are starting with their HW division and will add more depth to other divisions next. It can only be a good thing to have two strong orgs.

Over-Roid would destroy Lesnar. Not even close. Lesnar can't take a punch without running away and Overeem is not stupid like Carwin. He's also a much better striker. Overeem within a round.

Cain over Werdum for me.

Fedor beats JDS standing and on the ground.

Barnett would beat Carwin comfortably.

I think Mir would beat Silva.

Arlovski over Nelson

I think Rogers would spark Nog, horrible as it is to say.

I've been saying since Fedor signed with Strikeforce that there's just as much competition outside the UFC as in it at HW. Lesnar and Carwin were shown up to be over-rated fighters who aren't close to being the best in the division and IMO the UFC's HW division only has 2 potential number 1 HW's. Cain and possibly JDS but he needs to improve.

I don't get how Overeem is classed as one of the best HW's yet,he's unproven and untested at this weight.
He obviously has the potential,but he was an average to above average LHW,who didn't show that he had great heart or a chin,he moves up to HW,beats Sergei,then gets beaten quite easily by Werdum and Nog,then he takes on Sergei again,who he already beat and loses.
He beats the Headhunter and then spends two years beating cans,to be fair calling some of them cans feels like an exageration and now he's at the top of the HW's

Brock's last four wins are better than anything Overeem has done so far,he has beaten a top Greco guy,a very good BJJ guy,a well rounded journey man who's still better than any HW Overeem has beat in Herring and one of,if not the,hardest hitting HW in MMA.
So for me because Brock is proven at the top of the HW division where as Reem isn't yet,brock takes it quite comfortably,as soon as it hits the floor,it's over for Reem,Reem has a punchers chance and thats it,no way in the world Reem could stop Brock from taking him down.

Cain beats Werdum comfortably IMO

Have to back Fedor against JDS because it's Fedor,but to be honest I see Fedor going the exact same way as Cro-Cop and Nog,afterall he didn't look great against Rogers and IMO Rogers is no better than Kongo,plus he just lost in rookie style to Werdum.

Barnett vs Carwin,I would personally go for Carwin.Barnett had two years away from the sport and even the two years he has been back he hasn't exactly looked like a world beater,though to be fair to him,his competition hasn't been great but it's been 20x better than Reems list of HW scalps in the last 2 years.
I like barnett but I don't see him surviving a rd with carwin.

Mir - Silva,I think I would go for Bigfoot,if he doesn't gas.This would be abit of a mix of he last fights against arlovski and Werdum.
Mir is more rounded than both IMO,but Werdum obviously has a far supierior BJJ game,which Bigfoot survived and Arlovski has better stand up than Mir and Big foot easily out struck Arlovski(though to be fair it's a shadow of the former Arlovski)

Big Country was hard done to the 1st time he fought arlovski and since then,he seems to have got better,whereas Arlovski is terrible now,so big Country allday in this one.

Nog easily beats the vastly over rated Rogers,not even in the same league as each other.
Brett goes from struggling to beat Abongo,KOing a shot Arlovski in 20 odd seconds and getting beat by Fedor and absolutely destroyed by Reem.

5-2 UFC

Overeem hype is based on potential (doing well in ADCC Europe and very well in K-1) and how well he's performed in fights. Brock got a title shot based solely on potential and not so much on performance. Rogers > Herring of 2008 too.

How did Rogers struggle to beat Abongo? AA had looked good in his previous fight against Fedor and you act like a 20 seconds KO is a bad thing, and losing to Fedor and Overeem isnt a big deal. He looked okay against Fedor and bad against Overeem.

This is as opposed to Nog getting KOd by Mir, getting a decision against Couture and then KOd by Cain. Fact is Nog hasnt looked good since 2006.

Complete nonsense.

Fedor destroyed Rogers, because he bust an existing cut and was GnP'd for 10 seconds people say he didn't look good. He destroyed him.

I think Cain would beat Werdum but to claim it would be "comfortable" is a ridiculous statement. Werdum is a BJJ master and would give Cain big problems on the ground.

Barnett is a great fighter, Carwin is an average fighter with big power but no stamina. No contest.

Arlovski is terrible?? Who's Nelson beaten that's close to AA?? Nobody.

Rogers would spark Nog, Nog's only chance is getting it to the ground and Rogers would outmuscle him. Cain V and Mir sparked Nog. Neither hit nearly as hard as Rogers.

Overeem is a world class striker, Brock has the worst stand-up in the UFC and is afraid of getting hit. Overeem is a much different fighter now than he was at LHW. He beats Brock easily.

I think saying Overeem is all hype and Lesnar isnt is so funny, Lesnar beat Carwin (Unproven) and looked utter shite in winning

Beat Couture, who IMO cant even hang with Lhw journeymen like Vera and he lost to Nog (who is shot to shit by all acounts)

Beat Herring who wasnt ranked.

Went 1-1 with Mir which is pretty good going.
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Overeem hasnt as much as talen a step backwards in recent memory, his opposition isnt world class apart from Rogers and Sergi who were ranked wins but look at PERFORMANCE. Overeem isnt turtling up any more, he isnt the gun shy weight drained Lhw he once was.

Lesnar on the other hand would clearly shit himself if Overeem (The best Striker at Hw) punched him in the face. People always assume the wrestler will always get the TD but I think Brock isnt a wreckless bullrush guy and if he stood for any time with Overeem it goes like this

Punch--->Tutle up---->Ruthless GnP------>TKO loss to Brock

I dont think anyone is trying to clain Overeem is top dog but If you say Cain has an easy time with Werdum I say Overeem has an easy time with Brock!
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Good idea for a topic.

Overoid vs Lesnar: First of all before I discuss this fight I want to talk about both there striking. Overoid is not the striker everyone thinks he is. People think he is a K1 level striker but in reality he is just a decent K1 fighter. Based on his K1 record he is very, very average, 6-4 but he is better than his record suggests. But he is no where near as good as people think. Hari was his best win by far but lets be serious. Hari was very overconfident and didn't respect Overoid's power and got sparked. In the rematch when he took the fight seriously he schooled Overoid with ridiculous ease, it was embarassing. Aerts and Poturak were well past there best when they fought and Teixeria is a decent win. He was beaten easily by Bonjasky and beaten by two average fighters.

The fact that he is one of the HW divisions best strikers just goes to show you how poor the striking in the division is. When he was at LHW he was dismantled by the better strikers in the divison. Shogun, Lil nog, Liddell and Sergi. As a striker Overoid is increbly overated.

Lesnar's striking is awful in terms of technique. Simple as that right now, its poor and sometimes even comical. With that being said he does have massive power in his hands so as bad as his hands are he can still be a danger.

In terms of a fight between the two it goes like this. If it stays standing Lesnar is fucked. If it goes to the ground Overoid is fucked. Overoid is a decent grappler, actually at LHW he was a much better grappler than a striker but Lesnar's size and strength means he can do very little in retaliation. What it comes down to is can Lesnar get Overoid down. I think so, people saying Lesnar struggled to get Carwin down as an excuse is not a fair comparison at all. Carwin is stronger than Overoid and has much better takedown defence. If he gets him down he caves his skull in. If he doesn't, he gets sparked. On paper 50-50 fight, but with Lesnars takedown 60-40. With Overoid's massive knee in the mix as well, 55-45 Lesnar. I also think Overoid might gass, roided muscle gasses. I don't think we would even get to that stage though, I think that fight would be over in 2 rounds.

Prediction: Lesnar

Fedor vs JDS- I hate going against JDS because he is my favourite fighter at HW but right now its a bad matchup for him. His best chance would be to repeat the way AA was fighting minus the stupid flying knee. Light on the feet and working the jab. He has more power than Arvloski but he isn't as quick or as good as a grappler. But he does have a much better chin. He could cause problems standing but I think its Fedor's fight.

Prediction: Fedor

Cain vs Werdum- That would be a good fight. I think I would give it to Cain based on his striking in the last fight. If he fought like he did then he would have a massive advantage standing. But Werdum's takedowns are pretty good, his striking much improved and has the best BJJ in the division. Cain UD I think but its close.

Barnett vs Carwin- This fight is quite similar to Overoid vs Lesnar in the respect that it's grappler vs striker. If Barnett tries to stand and bang with Carwin he is going to sleep. If Barnett gets him down I think its a sub for Barnett. Carwin is a better wrestler than Barnett though and has much better td defence than Barnett has TD offence.
I think if this fight didn't finish early both would gas out. Both have had bad cardio in the past and that would be an awful fight.

Prediction: Carwin

Big Foot vs Mir: I don't really rate Big foot, I think he is an overated fighter. His ground game is quite good but I think Mir is better. I think Mir has better standup than Silva as well. Mir's fight for me.

Prediction: Mir

Nelson vs Arvloski: If AA was any where near his best he would beat Nelson eaily. He wasn't at his best in his last fight and he still won, albiet with a some controversy. AA chin always makes him a liability but I think he is just too quick for Nelson.

Prediction: AA

Rogers vs Nog: This is the hardest fight to judge for me because I don't know where both guys are. Nog is being critisized for being a has been while Rogers has been labled a never was. It's hard to make these claims when the guys they have lost to are Mir, Velasquez for Nog and Fedor and Overoid for Rogers. 4 top 10 guys and 4 top fighters in general. Style wise its grappler vs striker. Really not sure on this one. I have to go with Nog based on his past and because I like him more

This was a nice topic but I don't think its the fairest way to judge who has the strongest division. You also have to consider the other fighters in the division for both orgs and how they much up and who has the better fighters overall.

overall I'd say the HW divisions are pretty even with both getting stronger. Sergi was an excellent signing for SF, Im really happy they got him and I hope he can become a success. He has good boxing and some good power as well.

Can Mo make a reasonable weight in the HW division? I don't think there is anyone there at LHW or at MW who can beat him outside the UFC and id like to see him test himself against tougher opponents and I think he can be a success. If he can make 235-240 and not be fat I think he could beat quite a few of the HWs there, maybe more if he continues to improve. At the same time it would be quite difficult for him to beat a 265 Overoid.

UFC has more depth than SF in every division, including heavyweight especially when you remove the guys who arent *actually* signed to SF, just rumoured.

People have made the point that Overeem has a weakness to ground and pound attack...this is true (or at least it was last time he faced that sort of attack).
But what is even more important is Brock's weakness to getting hit in the face...he does not react well to getting hit at all!!!!
this is crucial when facing probably a top 5 openweight K1 striker.
I think the disparity between the striking abilities is ridiculous, it would be a massacre on the feet, which is where these fights always start.

the other important fact is Brocks takedowns.
...easily the most overrated takedowns in MMA, they are not as fast and powerful as you think.
when they had a full tank of gas, Herring and Carwin easily stuffed the takedowns, and lets not forget that he could not take Randy down at all!
I think Overeem is underrated as a grappler...he will not get submitted by Brock.

Overeem takes this by KO!

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Werdum has only been stopped once, when he was way out of shape, by a hellish uppercut from a proven bomber.
I don't think Cain would knock him out, despite what he has shown in his last fight. I think there are many similarities between Cain and Fedor, and i think Fedor is more well versed in submissions than Cain.
I will take Werdum by submission.

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I am a JDS fan, but Fedor is better than him everywhere.
Fedor via submission.

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Barnett has the experience to avoid getting knocked out by Carwin early on.
I think after seeing how he was exposed against Lesnar, Barnett will put Carwin away with a submission.
I think he is a class above and he knows it.
of course there is always a huge danger with Shane.

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Bigfoot is not getting KOd by Mir, i think Bigfoot is a better and moore powerful striker, and Mir cannot get him down.
Bigfoot by KO

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Nelson vs AA is an interesting one.
Nelson was doing well in the first fight, but was overwhelmed on the feet.
How far has AA fallen since this??
How much has Nelson improved.....and how much of this "improvement" is hype??
i think alot is hype because...who has he actually beaten?>

struve?

schaub?

mcsweeney?

kimbo?


I would take Nelson via KO

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I would hope for Rogers to get submitted by Nog, and i think it would happen (maybe)





edit:

CHELSEA!"!!

please go back and watch Overeem/Bonjasky again, most consider that a robbery!!!! saying he "beat him with ease" is not true at all.
Hari/Overeem 1 was a brutal massacre.
Hari/Overeem 2, was overeem properly hurt in that fight?? just wobbled a bit.
Overeem/Aerts was a one sided affair.

IamFluffykins wrote:UFC has more depth than SF in every division, including heavyweight especially when you remove the guys who arent *actually* signed to SF, just rumoured.

the "guyS" who aren't signed to strikeforce??

Who are the "guyS" who aren't signed??

manschesthair_utd wrote:People have made the point that Overeem has a weakness to ground and pound attack...this is true (or at least it was last time he faced that sort of attack).
But what is even more important is Brock's weakness to getting hit in the face...he does not react well to getting hit at all!!!!
this is crucial when facing probably a top 5 openweight K1 striker.
I think the disparity between the striking abilities is ridiculous, it would be a massacre on the feet, which is where these fights always start.

the other important fact is Brocks takedowns.
...easily the most overrated takedowns in MMA, they are not as fast and powerful as you think.
when they had a full tank of gas, Herring and Carwin easily stuffed the takedowns, and lets not forget that he could not take Randy down at all!
I think Overeem is underrated as a grappler...he will not get submitted by Brock.

Overeem takes this by KO!

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Werdum has only been stopped once, when he was way out of shape, by a hellish uppercut from a proven bomber.
I don't think Cain would knock him out, despite what he has shown in his last fight. I think there are many similarities between Cain and Fedor, and i think Fedor is more well versed in submissions than Cain.
I will take Werdum by submission.

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I am a JDS fan, but Fedor is better than him everywhere.
Fedor via submission.

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Barnett has the experience to avoid getting knocked out by Carwin early on.
I think after seeing how he was exposed against Lesnar, Barnett will put Carwin away with a submission.
I think he is a class above and he knows it.
of course there is always a huge danger with Shane.

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Bigfoot is not getting KOd by Mir, i think Bigfoot is a better and moore powerful striker, and Mir cannot get him down.
Bigfoot by KO

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Nelson vs AA is an interesting one.
Nelson was doing well in the first fight, but was overwhelmed on the feet.
How far has AA fallen since this??
How much has Nelson improved.....and how much of this "improvement" is hype??
i think alot is hype because...who has he actually beaten?>

struve?

schaub?

mcsweeney?

kimbo?


I would take Nelson via KO

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I would hope for Rogers to get submitted by Nog, and i think it would happen (maybe)





edit:

CHELSEA!"!!

please go back and watch Overeem/Bonjasky again, most consider that a robbery!!!! saying he "beat him with ease" is not true at all.
Hari/Overeem 1 was a brutal massacre.
Hari/Overeem 2, was overeem properly hurt in that fight?? just wobbled a bit.
Overeem/Aerts was a one sided affair.

Disagree on two of your predictions, but a good post mate.

CHELSEA!"!!

please go back and watch Overeem/Bonjasky again, most consider that a robbery!!!! saying he "beat him with ease" is not true at all.
Hari/Overeem 1 was a brutal massacre.
Hari/Overeem 2, was overeem properly hurt in that fight?? just wobbled a bit.
Overeem/Aerts was a one sided affair.

Shit sorry, I just watched and it was a much closer fight than I thought. Got my fights mixed up, I was thinking of Bonjasky vs Manhoef.

But Bonjasky still won that fight IMO, it was a close fight but Bonjasky landed the better kicks and had Overoid in more trouble right at the end. Bonjasky was also awful in this fight for two reasons.

1. He had an injured knee coming in to the fight and it affected his movement.

2. Did you see what Overoid was doing? He kept throwing Bonjasky, sweeping Bonjasky and clinching Bonjasky, he was trying to grapple with him! He was outmatched trying to stand with Bonjasky so he resotred to basically cheating.

First Hari vs Overoid fight was Hari getting caught. Doesn't matter if it was brutal or not, OVeroid has a lot of power and caught him. Shows Overoid's power, not his technique.

Second fight Hari just schooled him, he rocked him several times, hit him with every shot and evaded all of Overoid's shot. Embarrasingly one sided.

Randleman beat Cro Cop in more brutal fashion than when Cro Cop beat Randleman. Does that mean Randleman is better than Cro Cop?

Aerts is past it, well past it. When he fought Maeda he was finished brutally, something Overoid should have been able to do if he was as good as people say.

Aliaster Overeem= The most overated striker in MMA and K1 history. He probably isn't even a top 5 striker in MMA, much less K1. As I said, look at what Shogun and Lil Nog did to him. There both great fighters and have excellent standup in terms of MMA, but what would happen to those two in a K1 fight.

...easily the most overrated takedowns in MMA, they are not as fast and powerful as you think.
when they had a full tank of gas, Herring and Carwin easily stuffed the takedowns, and lets not forget that he could not take Randy down at all!
I think Overeem is underrated as a grappler...he will not get submitted by Brock.

Its true they are overated, but missing a few takedowns against Carwin and Herring who are both good wrestlers proves nothing. Most fighters miss a takedown here and there. Him unable to takedown Randy is a better example, but he did take him down a few times.

The last fighter Overoid fought who has good takedowns and wasn't past there best was Ricardo Arona. Ye, that was 4 years ago and he was takendown, got his ass kicked and tapped to strikes. Thats what I imagine would happen with Lesnar except with everything 60 pounds heavier.

Bigfoot is not getting KOd by Mir, i think Bigfoot is a better and moore powerful striker, and Mir cannot get him down.
Bigfoot by KO

Why not? I know Kongo is very overated but he is still a good striker and Mir rocked him badly. Kongo is similar in striking ability to Bigfoot but ofc they have different styles.

I don't rate Mir that highly but I suppose I just don't rate Big foot at all. I would pick Gonzaga to beat him.

I agree Mir would have an easy time with Bigfoot, Mirs striking looks so much quicker and better and his BJJ is better. Is isnt much smaller and is probabally stronger faster etc.. Mir all day there and Im a bigfoot fan and Mir bothers me!

But you cant keep going back to Overeem being a weight drained Lhw kid. Its like not rating Belfort based on current form. You dont hear everyone saying, Who Belfort... the guy who beat one top class fighter in a comeback?.... the guy who Sakuraba was kicking about on the feet?

You have to look at recent form mate, Overeem BULLDOZED Rogers so so much worse than Fedor did. Overeem KO'd Badr who number 1/2 K-1 guy back then. Lucky Shot? Only Showed power and no Technique? why? He landed a beautifull shot and took him out, Great striking. Overeem has Goot Muay Thai, 8 points of attach he can KO people with it, therefore my MMA maths makes him 4X more dangerous than Carwin on the feet who only has the hands!.... and you saw how Lesnar Shit himself and actually lay down to avoid being punched!

And he is hardly Carwin off his back either.

Big Foot has an amazing chin in fairness to him. Pele knocked him out Pele weighs about 350 and had all his weight behind the punches.

Overeem is bigger, better and stronger than he was when he fought Arona and he's so much better as a striker than he was. Those knees and the damage they would do to Lesnar cancel out Lesnar's takedowns as long as Overeem can maintain a distance and with Brock being scared of getting hit, that should be manageable.

Overeem destroyed Hari the first time. He lost the second time but the stoppage was questionable. That puts him 1 and 1 in K1 with the most talented K1 fighter of his generation and possibly of all time(not the best, the most talented).

Clinching and sweeping is allowed in K1, read the rules before you accuse someone of cheating

The fight with Bonjasky was very close. If the ref had done his job properly and counted the knockdown of Bonjasky, Overeem would have won the fight.

Overeem is top 10 easily in both MMA and K1. He would destroy Lesnar. Once he landed his hands or knees on Brock, the running would start, the curling up in a ball would follow and then he'd quit. Hopefully the referee would have the balls to stop it though.

Anfield good point the Knees cancel out Lesnars TD's, One Knee Lesnar isnt a Reckless guy who shoots like a bull actoss the cage and gets the TD at all costs, if he used some Sapp Tactics this would be great but even if he is bouncing about pretending he can strike for 30seconds thats enough time for Overeem to land his shot and have Lesnar looking for a place to hide. I think in your head Lesnar would charge towards a double leg and score it but thats his only hope. Overeem and JDS have the best Chance to beat Lesnar.

About the Badr Hari thing, I think ill be the one to ask......

do you know what an "Ernesto Hoost" is!



That Video never gets old. Dude was the Fedor of K-1. Bard aint for shit on Hoost, how dare you Sir.

I was under the impression this was all about opinions.

I never said anything about Overeem being just hype,I said he was unproven and untested at HW,where as brock has been tested and is now proven with wins over Mir,Herring,Randy and carwin.

I think brock would take Reem down easily enough and I can't see Reem being able to get back up.
The way you lot are calling for Reem to beat Brock IMO would mean he would have to connect flush and make Brock Turtle up,something only Carwin has been able to do so far and he still lost,if Reem misses or just hits him with a glancing blow then I think brock will have him on his back and that will be that.
Carwin a top level wrestler managed to stuff one of brocks takedown attempts,Reem is nowhere near being a top level wrestler,so i can't see him stuffing any of Brocks shots.

The performance thing doesn't hold much water either,since any of the fighters on both sides of that list would have looked spectacular and brilliant against the type of opposition,he was racking up his wins against.
Overeem wasn't a weight drained LHW either,towards the end when he was flitting between HW and LHW for about a year or so and eating extra horse meat,yes for a couple of fights,but still during that time he was losing at HW and LHW and for the 6 or so years before that he was a comfortable LHW.
Overeem isn't turtling up any more like he did at LHW because Overeem hasn't been hit or tested in the HW division by anyone yet.Far to early to say he doesn't have the same problems that he had as a LHW.

JDS easily beat Werdum,so I don't see how it's far fetched in any way to say cain would comfortably beat Werdum,like he comfortable beat Nog.

I like barnett,but it's not as if he has looked great against any of his recent opponents is it,like Rizzo,monson or yvel,yes he beat them all,but so he should,afterall he was a top 5 HW not long ago.(but then again so where Cro-cop,Nog and Fedor)
Doesn't it seem funny to any one else that the two that come to the UFC and faced good compitition in every fight have struggled and are now being called finished and at the end of there careers yet Barrnett has looked only OK against far weaker compitition and Fedor,ignoring how Anfeild thinks he was a world beater struggles against rogers and loses to Werdum yet are still the best
Barnett would go the exact same way as cro-cop and nog if he fought in the UFC,probably even worse since he was worse than both to begin with,Fedor would still be among the elite but i don't for a second think he would get through the top UFC fighters without losing.

I just don't think any of Barnetts performances prove that he is still at the top of his game anymore,where as carwin has been destroying people during the same period,yes some where cans like barnett has aswell but Gonzaga and mir deffinitely are not cans,they are both better than any fighter Barnett has fought since Pride finished.
carwin dominated brock but brock has the luxery of having thoughs huge arms that when covering up,there aren't as many targets to hit and thats alot to do with why carwin punched himself out with so many arm punches and couldn't find the target and Brock survived.
Where as like every other opponent carwin has fought,he has managed to get through and finish easily enough.I don't think barnett or many other fighters would of survived if they were in the same position as brock was.

Yes Arlovski was a very good fighter and has some good names in his win column but in his last few fights he has looked timid,chinny and shot,thats why I think he is now a terrible HW now,I don't know why thats so hard to understand,that was the general consensous by everyone not long ago,granted he looked abit better against bigfoot,but still he was beaten easily enough.

I can't see it in Rogers at all,one of if no the most over rated HW out there,I really don't think he is any better than Kongo,infact if the two fought,I'd have my money on Kongo.