Hall of Fame *Under Construction*

Sakurai has more top wins on his record than those few.

Caol Uno
Tetsuji Kato (who was comfortably top 10 at the time)
Frank Trigg (who was top 5 at the time)
Dave Menne
Aoki x 2
Pulver
Hansen

As I said, before his loss to Anderson, Sakurai was considered p4p number one. It was the win over Sakurai that really validated Hughes. Add this to the fact that Sakurai is really a natural lightweight.

Caol Uno-Was never that great IMO, Did he ever beat a top fighter?
Tetsuji Kato-Don't know him
Frank Trigg (who was top 5 at the time)- Ye because no one else was good
Dave Menne-Hahaha
Aoki x 2
Pulver
Hansen

I wouldn't say he is a natural LW, Aoki is a natural LW and Mach dwarfed him. If those are his best wins compare them to Horn.

Aoki-Liddell (Liddell)
Trigg-Griffin (Griffin) Dean Lister, David Loiseau, Travis Fulton, Chael Sonnen
Kato-Yvel (Yvel)
Menne-Sonnen (Sonnen)
Pulver-Loiseau (Pulver)
Hansen-Lister (Hansen)
Aoki (2nd time)-Fulton (Aoki)

Horn 4-3 Mach

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Caol Uno-Was never that great IMO, Did he ever beat a top fighter?
Tetsuji Kato-Don't know him
Frank Trigg (who was top 5 at the time)- Ye because no one else was good
Dave Menne-Hahaha
Aoki x 2
Pulver
Hansen

I wouldn't say he is a natural LW, Aoki is a natural LW and Mach dwarfed him. If those are his best wins compare them to Horn.

Aoki-Liddell (Liddell)
Trigg-Griffin (Griffin) Dean Lister, David Loiseau, Travis Fulton, Chael Sonnen
Kato-Yvel (Yvel)
Menne-Sonnen (Sonnen)
Pulver-Loiseau (Pulver)
Hansen-Lister (Hansen)
Aoki (2nd time)-Fulton (Aoki)

Horn 4-3 Mach

remember that was Chuck's 3rd pro fight, thats like having Luiz Azaredo in because he beat Anderson Silva, id say chuck was on a par with the first Aoki win, and Mach is a natural lightweight, he made the final of the lightweight gp in pride which was 160 lbs.

Dave Menne was a top 10 fighter at the time and former UFC champion and had been ranked as high as 2 in the world.

Forrest is quite a good win but again this is pre-tuf forrest.

and it was Unos first pro fight aswell, but Uno is a great fighter, just look at the names on his record and it will tell you that.
he might not have beaten any greats though.

Rumina Sato twice, Din Thomas twice (who was a top fighter apperently ), Dennis Hallman, Hideo Tokoro, Rich Clementi when he was on a tear, Yves Edwards, Mitsuhiro Ishida, and Tokoro is decent too, aswell as draws with Kawajiri and BJ penn.

"remember that was Chuck's 3rd pro fight, thats like having Luiz Azaredo in because he beat Anderson Silva, id say chuck was on a par with the first Aoki win, and Mach is a natural lightweight, he made the final of the lightweight gp in pride which was 160 lbs.

Dave Menne was a top 10 fighter at the time and former UFC champion and had been ranked as high as 2 in the world.

Forrest is quite a good win but again this is pre-tuf forrest."

Chuck still went on to win his next 10 fights and that included Randleman, Belfort, Sobral, Monson, Mezger and Bustamante. Horn was the only one to beat him in 12. Im not sure how its like having Azaredo in there at all, he got one big win and thats it. Nothing else ever. Aoki had lost before and Chuck beat better competition after Aoki so Id say Chuck is the better win.

Diaz fought at 160, still doesn't mean he isn't a natural WW. He doesn't look like a natural LW to me, maybe he is one of those guys who is stuck between two weight classes like Franklin today. 160 looks like a good weight for him.

Menne won the belt when there was one other guy challenging. He is terrible looking at some of the fighters he lost to. Baroni, Forivanti, Herman and loads of cans. The best win on his record is Lights out and thats when he sucked.

It was pre-Tuf Griffin but he had still beaten Fulton, Monson and Sonnen by this point and went to TUF a fight later.

manschesthair_utd wrote:

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Caol Uno-Was never that great IMO, Did he ever beat a top fighter?
Tetsuji Kato-Don't know him
Frank Trigg (who was top 5 at the time)- Ye because no one else was good
Dave Menne-Hahaha
Aoki x 2
Pulver
Hansen

I wouldn't say he is a natural LW, Aoki is a natural LW and Mach dwarfed him. If those are his best wins compare them to Horn.

Aoki-Liddell (Liddell)
Trigg-Griffin (Griffin) Dean Lister, David Loiseau, Travis Fulton, Chael Sonnen
Kato-Yvel (Yvel)
Menne-Sonnen (Sonnen)
Pulver-Loiseau (Pulver)
Hansen-Lister (Hansen)
Aoki (2nd time)-Fulton (Aoki)

Horn 4-3 Mach

remember that was Chuck's 3rd pro fight, thats like having Luiz Azaredo in because he beat Anderson Silva, id say chuck was on a par with the first Aoki win, and Mach is a natural lightweight, he made the final of the lightweight gp in pride which was 160 lbs.

Dave Menne was a top 10 fighter at the time and former UFC champion and had been ranked as high as 2 in the world.

Forrest is quite a good win but again this is pre-tuf forrest.

and it was Unos first pro fight aswell, but Uno is a great fighter, just look at the names on his record and it will tell you that.
he might not have beaten any greats though.

Rumina Sato twice, Din Thomas twice (who was a top fighter apperently ), Dennis Hallman, Hideo Tokoro, Rich Clementi when he was on a tear, Yves Edwards, Mitsuhiro Ishida, and Tokoro is decent too, aswell as draws with Kawajiri and BJ penn.

Uno beat the way overlooked Ivan Menjivar too.

Those wins show he is a good fighter not a great fighter. He lost to fisher and drew to an unknown recently. He is a good fighter but not a great.

Uno beat the way overlooked Ivan Menjivar too.

He is a good fighter as well but noting special. GSP easily beat him in GSP's first ever fight. I know its GSP but it shows he was never a real quality fighter.

He was a featherweight who was forced to fight above his weight due to the lack of opportunities in that weight class at the time. Menjivar wasn't even a huge featherweight when he did drop down to that class, he was pretty average sized, yet he was still competitive with guys like Shaolin, Serra, Uno, Faber, Lauzon, Tokoro and Curran. You can hardly use Menjivar's loss to GSP to discredit him.

GSP is my favourite fighter, I wouldn't descredit any fighter he has beaten.

Cant forget belts for Gomi. He finished as the Pride Lw title which he held from 1995 till prie finished. Thats a hell of an achievment in its self, And its not like BJ beat him down or Hellboy beat him down, they were pretty competitve fights. I dont see how a figher like Gomi couldnt be included, after Bj Penn he was number 2 for years, I think a little like Nog was number 2 to Fedor at heavy. Jeremy Horn was hardly a wordbeater I know he had title shots but I dont think he was ever that highly ranked... could be wrong but I doubt he was as highly though of as Gomi.

If I add Horn id probabally have to add Tito which im really holding fire on because his career could soon be in ruins! If I had to pick one it would be Horn because he has been up and down the weights and has a load of recognisable wins that you didnt mention.

This is the problem with the HOF am trying to keep everyone happy without dropping the quality of fighters in it.

Are people in favor of Mach being added then? beating Aoki twice, Pulver, Hanses, and was on a 20 fight winning spree before Anderson beat him and held the Shoto title for a crazy amount of time and defended it a lot of times, Shoto might not carry the same weight as Pride or UFC titles but 98-01 is a long run with 7 successfull defences. Id put Mach in before Horn but I might just add both.

If I add them both Ill have to add Tito wont I? 15-7-1. His only impressive wins IMO were Wandy (Who hadnt peaked) in a very narrow victory and Vitor Belfort im a debatable decision (Against a young Vitor going through a rough patch) I know there a great case for him because he has those wins and was champ, But Forrest was champ (both 1 time champ) and Forrest beat Shogun and Rampage and has more fights and a better record! Are we going to include him?

Ramapge is a much better Lhw than Tito is ever been 30-7-0 (Twice as good a record) Also beat Wandy, beat Liddell, beat Hendo, beat Randleman, beat Igor etc.. I hate to say but theres plenty of better Lhw than Tito. I just cant see a case for him because he is famous. Its like saying Beckham diserves similar status than Best and Pele becuase he is so famous and so many ppl watch him.

If Mach goes in Horn should as well. I think we can wait on these two as well, there careers are still not finished and its possible Horn could go back to a big time promotion. Mach is still with Dream, and will be looking to avenge his loss to Zamouriskas.

Gomi is the second greatest LW of all time but for how much longer will he be? The HW division has the most history in terms of quality fighters, am I right? You can hardly compare Nog to Gomi. Nog has wins over Tim Sylvia, Dan Henderson, Sergei Kharitonov, Mark Coleman, Valentijn Overeem, Ricco Rodriguez, Mirko Filipović, Jeremy Horn, Josh Barnett, Heath Herring THREE TIMES, Fabricio Werdum, Semmy Schilt, Randy Couture and many other good fighters. Gomi does not have half as an impressive a list.

I don't mind if you hold fire on Tito for the time being, come the next 2 or 3 fight and then decide. He has beat the Janitor and Cote as well. Plus you included Ken Shamrock who I personally don't why is in and Tito ripped him apart three times.

Rampage should go in soon, if he retires (which he won't) I say he can go in. Very good record with plenty of KOs and wins over good fighters.


I also nominate Andy Wang and Kalib Starnes into the MMA HOF. Thats not lowering the standard too low is it?

RAMPAGE SHOULD NOT BE IN THE HALL OF FAME.

the only legit good lhws he has beaten are Igor, Chuck, Randleman, Arona (he was ko'd in this fight and then woke up) and Jardine.

He was DECIMATED by Wanderlei twice and torn apart by Shogun, should have lost to Ninja, lost to Eastman, submitted by Saku and was outpointed by Forrest Griffin.

he has one of the most padded records of any modern fighter.


looking at the criteria:

there are fighters with better title accomplishments that are not in, he never won a belt in pride in 3 attempts, he defended the ufc belt once.
He never had a notable win streak.
He never moved up in weight, i think the only guy he has fought that he didnt have a size advantage over was Forrest, and he lost.
His overall contribution to mma today is minimal.


Tito should go in ahead of Rampage (i would be satisfied if neither go in though) , the only category page is better in is the wins over top fighters category.
Tito has had a huge influence on mma, was the no1 LHW for a long tine, it doesnt matter that he was only champ once because he was champion for a record number of defences, he was champ for so long that after he lost the belt he was already on the decline and so never won it again.

I would have Gomi, Mach, and maybe Tito, but not Horn and unless Rampage wins the belt and defends it again i would never have him in it.

-------------------------


Unfortunatley for Mach i think his love for Korean barbeque has effectivley ended his competitive welterweight career, despite being a natural LW he has struggled to make ww recently, and came in at 200lbs for a recent grappling tournament.

I agree with Chesthair, Rampage can not be allowed to go in our HoF. If I'd been writing this after his beating of Hendo then I might have said yes, but he's done enough in the last 12 months to undo his legacy and prove that he doesn't respect the sport, and for that reason alone I would black ball him. Consider also the fact that he disgraced himself on TUF when his team were relying on him for guidance, and even more poignantly the fact that he's ducking Rashad, and all things considered he doesn't belong.

Shame though, with a better attitude he could have left a really strong legacy.

"the only legit good lhws he has beaten are Igor, Chuck, Randleman, Arona (he was ko'd in this fight and then woke up) and Jardine."

What about Hendo? Wandy? Lindland? Bustamante? Minowa? He Beat Eastman as well and he beat Chuck twice BTW.

He deserves it over Tito, Mach and your boy Gomi. He is a good sized LHW, why does he need to move up? I don't understand why you would move up when you would be at a complete disadvnatge, Imagine what Rampage would look like against guys like Lesner and Carwin. His record is a lot more impressive than the three I have mentioned with much bigger names.

He isn't a coach but niether was Ken Shamrock and he still got in. He is a good fighter and based on his record he should go in. He has had his fair share of problems in the last 12 months but he can recover from it, we all knew he was coming back anyway.

Don't understand how guys like Mach are considered and Rampage isn't. Mach was only good in Japan, as soon as he fought in the UFC he was destroyed. Hughes dismantled him, ive watched that fight so many times.

And getting decimated by Wandy when he was the best P4P fighter isn't a bad thing. Losing to Shogun when he was the best LHW also isn't a bad thing.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:"the only legit good lhws he has beaten are Igor, Chuck, Randleman, Arona (he was ko'd in this fight and then woke up) and Jardine."

What about Hendo? Wandy? Lindland? Bustamante? Minowa? He Beat Eastman as well and he beat Chuck twice BTW.

He deserves it over Tito, Mach and your boy Gomi. He is a good sized LHW, why does he need to move up? I don't understand why you would move up when you would be at a complete disadvnatge, Imagine what Rampage would look like against guys like Lesner and Carwin. His record is a lot more impressive than the three I have mentioned with much bigger names.

He isn't a coach but niether was Ken Shamrock and he still got in. He is a good fighter and based on his record he should go in. He has had his fair share of problems in the last 12 months but he can recover from it, we all knew he was coming back anyway.

Don't understand how guys like Mach are considered and Rampage isn't. Mach was only good in Japan, as soon as he fought in the UFC he was destroyed. Hughes dismantled him, ive watched that fight so many times.

And getting decimated by Wandy when he was the best P4P fighter isn't a bad thing. Losing to Shogun when he was the best LHW also isn't a bad thing.

Hendo is a middleweight and it was a close decision, he was KOd twice by a prime wand and got a one punch KO against a chinny wand with his only offence of the fight. Lindland, Bustmante and Minowa are middleweights.

Tito, Mach and Gomi are all better champions than Rampage was.

Fighting without a size advantage is important as it distinguishes the highly skilled competitiors from those who use their size to win fights.

Mach is 5-1 outside japan and who cares anyway? Japan is where the best fighters have been throughout the majority of Mach's career.

Ken Shamrock is a coach, i dont really understand that point, he is the head coach of the Lion's den.

Far too harsh on Ramapage lads, He has a shit load of great wins and his career is still going. If he Fucks off to Boxing he will loose his chance to be a Hall of Famer, and im not putting him in because his career is still going. But I dont see how he isnt twice the figher Tito is. Every time Tito gets mentioned its always he was so famous and made MMA so famous... HOF is based on how good a fighter you were not how famous you were. I cant put Tito in. And I wont put Rampage in untill a later stage in his career.

Gomi is already added, im happy with the Logic that the 2nd best Lw ever diserves his place.

Mach in 50/50 about, I might just see how his next few fights play out. Id have him in if everyone was happy but it doesnt seem that way. So if he strings togeather a few wins and improves his record or adds another high class win id be more than happy with that.

For Rampage to go in he will have to stay in MMA after his UFC contract is up and not take any more bad losses.

For me for Tito to get in as a fighter he has a long way to got. Being a ranked Lhw would be a step towards being in the HOF but he hasnt been ranked for years and still isnt. Im not happy to put him in based on being Marketable or selling PPV's. Kimbo does that.

rudeboyben84 wrote:Far too harsh on Ramapage lads, He has a shit load of great wins and his career is still going. If he Fucks off to Boxing he will loose his chance to be a Hall of Famer, and im not putting him in because his career is still going. But I dont see how he isnt twice the figher Tito is. Every time Tito gets mentioned its always he was so famous and made MMA so famous... HOF is based on how good a fighter you were not how famous you were. I cant put Tito in. And I wont put Rampage in untill a later stage in his career.

Gomi is already added, im happy with the Logic that the 2nd best Lw ever diserves his place.

Mach in 50/50 about, I might just see how his next few fights play out. Id have him in if everyone was happy but it doesnt seem that way. So if he strings togeather a few wins and improves his record or adds another high class win id be more than happy with that.

For Rampage to go in he will have to stay in MMA after his UFC contract is up and not take any more bad losses.

For me for Tito to get in as a fighter he has a long way to got. Being a ranked Lhw would be a step towards being in the HOF but he hasnt been ranked for years and still isnt. Im not happy to put him in based on being Marketable or selling PPV's. Kimbo does that.

Tito was "the man" for about 3 years, Rampage was the man for about the span of time between Shogun getting beat by Forrest and Rampage getting beat by Forrest.

Rampage is probably a better fighter than Tito, if we are basing the Hall of fame on the best fighters, then you can remove Royce, Shammy, Severn, Minowa, Igor etc because Rampage is better than them all, but thats a bad policy in my opinion, Tito was better with respect to the rest of the mma world at the time than Rampage is now, better title reign and more influential on mma.

Ill give you the longer title rain but when Tito was top dog he was ducking Chuck because he would have lost. Tito was never really top dog in UFC. He had relativley easy defences and his good wins he scraped by. I hate Shammy but he really was the worlds most dangerous man one! (well 2nd after Royce!) he was a top p4p guy for years! but Its impossible to juge two generations of MMA fighters because one was an openweight no rules brawl! the other is the sport we watch today.

Tito isnt part of the "Old generation" Like Shammy and co who get a by ball for runining their careers. Tito was around in the Liddell, Couture etc.. time and he doesnt stack up to them. Clearly by his head to head losses he isnt on their level. And now his record is crap with more losses than wins over good opposition.

I dont think being influincal should get you in or Dana would be in!

1-1 with Forrest so well forget that, and Mezger he is 1-1 with. Evans was a Draw and Evans really hadnt peaked.

so wins vs losses.

Liddell - Wanderlei
Liddell - Belfort
Couture - Cote?
Machida - Matyushenko?
Frank S - Evan Tanner?

You take away Titos wins over Shammy which really mean fuck all and you can see that he has lost more big fights than he won. Seeing as he has lost 7 fights and only won 15 he hasnt proved himself over a long career. Randy has a similarly shit record but he has been up to heavyweight kicking ass and beat much tougher competition as well as multiple titles.

The man has 23 fights, 2 meaningfull big wins (which again he scraped through) and is HOF material? I dont see Tito diserving it. There have been crap UFC champs and IMO he was one. Defending against the likes of Yuki Kondo and wose still Elvis Sinosic.

If I put Tito in and he went on to loose to Liddell would you think he would be really out of place amoung the guys already in? I think with so few figths under his belt its the smart move to hold fire on putting him in as he isnt top 10 again and might not be top 10 again.

dont get me wrong ben, i dont think tito deserves a spot really, but he definatley deserves one more than BA Jackson who never sccomplished more than Franklin, Rodriguz, Belfort, Sylvia or Arlovski.

Cool, I didnt want Rampage in (Hittin Wandy when he was down got him banned from the HOF! supprised Goldie didnt call that punch "Classy") I just ment that there are a lot of better Lhw's than Tito. Lets keep them both out till they earn their spot.

Yeah don't put rampage in yet. I reckon he will lose to rashad, who I think is in his head. Tito can piss off with his massive bonce as well, like you say he needs to win and win big to stand a chance popular or not

Rampage is not now. Nor has he ever been. Hall of Fame worthy. A good fighter, not a great one. Can't think of a prime LHW that he has even beaten other than Arona. His record is padded.

Tito's record is padded as well BUT he carried the UFC by himself for a number of years and is the only reason it's still going. For his contribution to the sport, Tito is in.

Hendo is a middleweight and it was a close decision, he was KOd twice by a prime wand and got a one punch KO against a chinny wand with his only offence of the fight. Lindland, Bustmante and Minowa are middleweights.

That doesn't make sense, Hendo has been fighting LHW and MW his whole life, you can't take away a win from someone just because you have size advnatge. Same goes for the other guys. If Lesner beat Fedor would people say it doesn't count because of his size? It looks like people shouldn't fight anyone smaller than them anymore.

Rampage is a better fighter than Tito and Mach yet somehow he won't be going in. Rampage isn't a great fighter but niether are loads of the fighters going in.

What has Mach achieved to go in? Is he the second greatest WW of all time like Gomi in LW? No not as at all and WW is possibly the division with the least history. Already Hughes and GSP are better than him.

.Contribution to MMA - Older fighers may not have the same "names" on their record but if they revolutionarised a style or helped MMA become the sport it is today they should be given credit

Just realised this. Based on this Tito should go in because he was one of the first new breed fighters. His fight with Shamrock exemplifies that, it was old vs new and new won. In fact he was one of the first wrestlers and look at how successful they are now. He has a padded record but with some really good wins as well, he was one of the first new generation fighters. Plus he revolutionarised the concept of being a draw and marketability and all that

Mach was p4p number one i believe between Saku's loss to Wand and Mach's loss to Anderson Silva, something neither GSP or Hughes can say (i think).

He was also one of the first mma fighters proficient in every area, someething Hughes nad Tito cannot say even to this day!

GSP was P4P once, arguably now. There is no written, uiversal rule who the best P4P fighter is.

Mach was never P4P the best, when Saku lost to Wand, Wandy became the best P4P fighter.

GSP and Hughes are the greatest WWs of all time.


He was also one of the first mma fighters proficient in every area, someething Hughes nad Tito cannot say even to this day!

Hughes didn't need to be when destroyed Mach. Gracie was never proficent in every area yet he was one of the greatest. Hell, Cro Cop and Nog also can't claim to be proficient in every area to this day! However Hughes, Cro Cop and Nog all had one skill and they were very, very, very good at it.