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    Can UFC do a 1 night tournament?

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    Post  rudeboyben84 Sun Sep 05, 2010 1:50 am

    4 men fight in Semi final, 2 rounds, no elbow fights and followed by a normal fight at the end of the night.

    Other organisations have done it and after reading a Cagepotato article on in I was wondering what 4 man tournament would you like to see UFC do?

    If they were fighters that would earn a title shot off a tournament win who would you pick?

    Lhw: Forrest, Couture, Lil Nog, Bones

    Thats who id pick. Id love to see any of those combinations matched up against each other. Id make the opening round Forrest/Bones and Lil Nog/Couture or Forrest/Lil Nog and Bones/Couture because I dont think Forrest and Couture would be mad keen on fighting but im sure would in the final for a title shot.


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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:12 am

    Can UFC do it? Yes.
    Will UFC do it? Probably not.


    As far as who i'd like to see in a one nighter, if you'd asked me before 118 i would have said; Florian, Gomi, Maynard and Dunham.

    Now though i'd still like to see that tournament only without Florian, i'd swap him with G-Sot.

    Another tourney i'd love to see would be Maia, Marquardt, Vitor and Okami.
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    Post  kavik2 Sun Sep 05, 2010 2:22 pm

    sort out the welterweights with an 8 man tournament while we hav a delay 4 title fight. hughes, hardy, shields, kampman, thiago, alves, fitch, hathaway. hav it over two events. same for light heavies if shogun is owt till may. would be great but cant see ufc doing a tournament
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    Post  redmeanie77 Sun Sep 05, 2010 3:10 pm

    You know the tourney doesnt even have to be all in 1 night. They could announce an 8 man tourney at LHW. And then name the 8 particapants.

    Shogun
    Machida
    Evans
    Rampage
    Randy
    Nog
    Bones
    Forrest


    And then during the weigh ins or something, have a live draw. Where each name is randomly matched with the other.

    And have the first round of fights over the same PPV event, and then the 2nd round....... etc.

    It would be a huge hit. Fair enough there is a risk of someone getting injured and pulling out close to the event. But they would have alternatives eg, Bader, Vera, Tito, Davis, Diabate, Rich, Chuck.

    It can work !
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:47 pm

    redmeanie77 wrote:You know the tourney doesnt even have to be all in 1 night. They could announce an 8 man tourney at LHW. And then name the 8 particapants.

    Shogun
    Machida
    Evans
    Rampage
    Randy
    Nog
    Bones
    Forrest


    And then during the weigh ins or something, have a live draw. Where each name is randomly matched with the other.

    And have the first round of fights over the same PPV event, and then the 2nd round....... etc.

    It would be a huge hit. Fair enough there is a risk of someone getting injured and pulling out close to the event. But they would have alternatives eg, Bader, Vera, Tito, Davis, Diabate, Rich, Chuck.

    It can work !



    It worked for PRIDE, why not the UFC?
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    Post  manschesthair_utd Sun Sep 05, 2010 5:06 pm

    Dana hates the tournament format.

    Dana White...killing MMA slowly from the inside since 2001.
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    Post  Moose Stuff For Money... Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:13 pm

    I'd like to see tournaments brought back, even if they didn't put the very top guys in it. A welterweight tournament with Chris Lyttle, Nate Diaz, Mike Swick, Diego Sanchez, John Hathaway, Paulo Thiago, Martin Kampmann and Dan Hardy would produce some excellent fights.
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:21 pm

    Can you even imagine how epic it would be if The UFC did a tournament like one of the PRIDE GP's. I have just exploded in my pants at the thought.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:23 pm

    I don't think one night tourneys are good for the sport anyway.(they are fun,yes but they are something that belong in a circus tent and not a professional sport)
    Why do you think these were stopped in the first place and why do you think these kind of tournements have not been seen in pro boxing for a hundred odd years?

    They are not in the best interests of the fighters in any way shape or form and sensibly the commisions(that are there for good reason,unlike other countries)should never allow them.

    It's a pro sport where you should study your opponents and be in the best physical shape possible,so you can give your all,one night tournements don't allow for any of that,they are really just exhibitions,that have been proved in the past,do more damage to the sport than good.

    Fighters that give there all and end up in a war in the first rd are fucked for the second rd and if they come up against a guy who has just Ko'd someone early in thier rd,you've now got one fresh fighter against a fucked one,which makes it wide open for the best fighters not being the one that wins,it's completely unfair and in no way reflercts a proffesional sport,also good fighters could suffer loses on their records that they shouldn't have,(how many of you moan about shoguns loss to forrest because he was not the right shape,and that was with a full camp behind him,never mind an hour or so)never mind the bollox of reserve fighters coming in at the semi's or even the final because of injury,completely fresh and ready,just like the early UFC's when they used this format and steve Jennum won it.

    Then you have there pay,do they get paid say 1,2,or 3 times in a night depending on how many fights they are involved in,plus win bonuses,do they all get paid the same for entering,then earn more the further they go,or do they all get the same and only the winner takes an overall prize.
    How would this also effect how many fights they have left on there contracts.

    the only way these tournements should happen is if they follow a similar format to how bellator are running them,where the fights are done over a span of time and the fighters know there opponents,so they can study and train proffesionally,so they are in top shape mentally and physically and they also have a sound gameplan formulated by there camps.
    Then once they get through that round,there bodies can recover,and again they can get ready,so they are completely prepared and ready for their next opponent and can go at 100% again.

    I don't want to ever see a fighter only going at 60-70%,it's not good for the fighter or the fans.

    Dana killing MMA Rolling Eyes

    Don't you find it funny that Pride and the early UFC followed that format and both went down the tiolet,untill that is,Dana and the fertitas rescued it,and also the fact that MMA has boomed of the back of what Dana and the UFC have done and know it's looked at as a legit global sport and not a brutal freakshow,which attracts more fans now and massivly bigger PPV numbers.

    Dana and the UFC,killing the shit that held the sport back for so long.
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    Post  Moose Stuff For Money... Sun Sep 05, 2010 6:45 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:the only way these tournements should happen is if they follow a similar format to how bellator are running them,where the fights are done over a span of time and the fighters know there opponents,so they can study and train proffesionally,so they are in top shape mentally and physically and they also have a sound gameplan formulated by there camps.
    Then once they get through that round,there bodies can recover,and again they can get ready,so they are completely prepared and ready for their next opponent and can go at 100% again.
    As good as the Pride Grand Prix's were I think this format does make more sense in modern MMA. Tournaments are a big part of the UFC's history so it would be good to see one running each year, maybe rotating divisions each year.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Sun Sep 05, 2010 7:33 pm

    yeah I'd love to see,the UFC running Bellator style tourneys,they'd be epic,seeing the very top MMA talent in these kind of tourneys.

    I stick up for dana and the UFC alot,and honestly beleive that nearly all of his decisions are in the best interests of the UFC,and MMA for that fact but I'm not blind enough to ignore some of the bullshit he comes out with and his stuborness also(but you'd have to blame the fertittas aswell since they are the ones that actually make these decisions),so the fact that the UFC are doing fine without them and because bellator beat them to the punch on this one,is the reason why I think they'll stay away from them and just stick to using TUF as there tournement based show.

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    Post  manschesthair_utd Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:11 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:

    Dana killing MMA Rolling Eyes

    Don't you find it funny that Pride and the early UFC followed that format and both went down the tiolet,untill that is,Dana and the fertitas rescued it,and also the fact that MMA has boomed of the back of what Dana and the UFC have done and know it's looked at as a legit global sport and not a brutal freakshow,which attracts more fans now and massivly bigger PPV numbers.

    Dana and the UFC,killing the shit that held the sport back for so long.


    MMA is a unique sport, completley different to boxing.



    Tournaments are part of the martial arts.
    Boxing and MMA is the only combat sports that DON'T have tournaments at the highest level.(talking about UFC, and pro boxing)

    Wrestling, Judo, TKD, olympic boxing, karate, ADCC, Mundials, K1!!!
    Enter the Dragon
    Mortal Combat
    Tekken
    Bloodsport
    Karate Kid
    Dead or Alive
    King of the Ring
    Gladiator tournaments
    Pankration

    tournaments are an essential part of the sport of MMA and they are much more exciting than the way the UFC currently run things.

    whatever you say about "being professional" and stuff...it is actually much more interesting, and challenging to the fighters, to see 2 fighters who have not prepared for each other face off, compared with 2 fighters who have had 2 months to plan how they are going to neutralise each other.

    I understand what you said about 2 fighters not being on a level playing field in a fight, such as in the case with Crocop vs Barnett 3, where crocop had handed Wanderlei his ass easily, whereas Barnett went through an exhausting war with Nog.

    but in these cases you can't judge a fighters performance in a single fight, you have to look at the tournament as a whole.

    I don't think the UFC not having tournaments is very influential on how successful they have been. I think it's Dana Whites ego that he doesn't want tournaments because he wants UFC to replace boxing.
    If the UFC were to hold an 8 or 16 man tournament each year in one division, it would be a phenominal success, i cannot think how it would not be? people would get excited about it, for sure.
    ...and this is better for fighters.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Sun Sep 05, 2010 8:47 pm

    one day tornements are an essential part of Amature sports,unsanctioned Orgs and cheesy films,like the ones you listed and not legit proffesional mainstream sports.

    do you honestly think Dana gets to make those kind of calls and not the Fertittas?

    I find it funny when people disagree with the things the UFC do,it's all because of Dana's ego but then when they do great things for the sport,it's all the fertitta's doing.
    you have to make your mind up if Dana's running things or is he just the figure head and main promoter for the UFC.

    I'm not saying that the UFC not having tourneys is why the UFC have had the success they have had,it's down to loads of things that the UFC have changed about the sport to make it more acceptable to a larger audience,one of the major changes,just happened to be scrapping ONE DAY tournements,which has worked for them in doing that,so why would you think going back to them would be a good move?

    I agree that tournements would be a huge success in the UFC and all fans would love them and get excited over them,I know I would.They would give other fighters a great platform to build off,financially and popularity wise and give them something else to achieve and aim for instead of just the one championship belt thats on offer,but not one day formats,the formats that will be successfull on a professional MMA level are the ones like,the same format that bellator and boxing's super six use.

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    Post  rudeboyben84 Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:21 pm

    Eh? Boxing dont do tournaments? They do over here. Theres a series called Prizefighter and its been a big hit. Its high enough level Boxers too, some former World title contenders etc.. and some European title level some "wildcards"

    Its been a big hit because Boxing is quite stale at the min and its a refreshing change. Its not Brutal etc.. All fights are 3, 3 min rounds so if you fight 3 times its 9 rounds where as a title fight as 12 rounds.

    Look at it this way the winner of a 4 man UFC tournament would fight 5 rounds over the night, the 1st two of these are not allowing Elbows. He will fight a fighter in the final who has also been in a fight so not always 100% even playingfield but thats what attracts people to Tournaments the unpredictableness.

    Plus betweens rounds 2 and 3 you have an hour to sit about...

    I dont see the big deal Payne, no one though SF's womens tournament was a Throwback Vale Tudo bloodbath. As chesty plenty of other combat sports (and apparent computergames!) use the tournament format as something different and its always a big hit.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:25 pm

    I was talking about Boxing super 6 format,you know the one that started with froch,dirrell,Abraham,green,ward,kessler and taylor.

    I've seen little bits of prizefighter on sky sports news but not enough to make an opinion on,but i know what it is.

    Do you actually get to see the skills of a boxer in a 3 rd fight or do they just go out,throw wild and hope for the KO,because for me I find it hard to believe,a skilled fighter can do much in 3 rds,I mean look at some of your boxing greats,alot relied on there skills and there opponents to tire to win a fight,i mean what chance would ali have stood against foreman,or Lennox against tyson and many others in a 3 rd fight,plus they all have the chance to study there opponents and come up with a good game plan,that all gets thrown out of the window in these kind of things..
    it sounds like it's taking the beauty and skill out of the sport and turned it into a sluggers sport,exactly the same fights that butterbean made a name for himself fighting.

    Again this seems more of an exhibition thing than a skilled pro sport,a glorified,higher standard toughman really,it took a hundred odd years to develope the sport into what it is,this seems to me,like a step backwards and not something that you would ever expect to see the top guys in the sport ever entertaining.

    I don't think anyone thought that of the womens tourney because the level they are at,is no differant mainly from the level of the mens amature game.

    obviously this is just my opinion,I can imagine them being fun in a spectacal kind of way,but not in the way to apriaciate the real beuaty of the sport and a way to carry it forward.

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    Post  Anfields5thKing Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:56 pm

    Boxing super six was a great idea but has turned into a clusterfuck. it was over too long a period of time.

    1 night tournaments are brilliant and great for the sport, regardless of what Dana says.

    No offence Payne, but sometimes when i read your posts i wonder if they're actually your own opinion or if you're just expanding on what Dana has said.
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    Post  payneNglory1 Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:02 am

    Yeah I agree about the super 6,it was a good idea that I was really looking forward to when it first started,I've still watched every fight but they should of done it pureley as a knock out tourney and not a league and KO format,because like you say,it is taking far to long,a year and a half to crown a winner is far to long,people have started losing interest and the interest will only return,IMO when they get down to the semi final KO rds.


    No Offence taken,maybe a little bit would of been taken,if it wasn't for the fact that I've got used to reading your insulting remarks to people by now,so you take my comments and opinions how ever you want to mate.

    Dana's opinion means nothing to me,and to be honest,I can't recall hearing or reading what dana has said about one night tourneys,you'll have to enlighten me.Dana's a promoter who will say whatever it takes to promote the company he heads and has a big stake in,so I take what he say's and does with a pinch of salt,somethings he says,I 100% agree with,othertimes I think he's talking out of his arse,now when it comes to whether I think he's beengood for the sport,then yeah I think the Ferititas and Dana have been absolutley fantastic for the sport.

    I say what I like and say what I dislike,I like the UFC,where as you for whatever reasons don't,so every time I stick up for the thing I really enjoy,you and many other Pride boys,automaticly acuse us of being Dana's sheep,so it doesn't matter when we give our personal reasoning on any UFC or MMA subject,you'll always come back with the same thing,it's as predictable as the sun rising.

    It's as if because we don't share Pride boys opinions on the UFC,then we must be fair weather,dana loving UFC fanboys,while Pride boys automaticly claim themselves as hard core MMA fans,which to me is just an ignorant bitter opinion.(but thats just my opinion Wink )

    It's not as if all this anti UFC comes across as original opinions,I've been reading the same repeated stuff for years,you can go on every MMA board on the web and there's Pride fans spewing the exact same stuff you do about Dana and the UFC,some of it justified but IMO,90% of it is just unjustified bitterness,maybe because they can't forgive the UFC for killing off Pride or they don't like to see success and want to knock it for whatever reasons or maybe it's something else,whatever it is,I personally don't understand it.


    I personally love todays MMA alot more.
    I think,what the sport has turned into today,is by far better and since the UFC have killed off the way Pride and the early UFC ran things,the fighting out of weight classes,the mismatches,freakshows,padding crowd favourite fighters records and all the other shit that gave the sport a bad name,they have gave MMA some legitamicy as a mainstream sport and have moved away from the spectacle it was,by making evenly matched fights,sticking to weight classes,drug testing,answering to commisions and making their rules,so they appeal to a far wider audience,and since they have done that there been no looking back in the sports rise in popularity.

    IMO it has become better for fans,the sport and the fighters and since the UFC were the major players in making that happen,I have to give the Fertittas and Dana the credit.I can only see the sport of MMA growing and improving while they are the major force in the game,and can't think of any major decisions they have made that has had a negative impact on the sport,so I see no reason at all,why it would be a good Idea to return to doing some of the things,like one night tourneys,that obviously didn't work or help the sport out in the first place.

    which you obviously don't agree with and don't particularly care to hear. Smile
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    Post  sunthunder Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:21 pm

    I wouldn't really want one night tournaments back. I don't want to see fighters lose because they're banged up from having fought once previously on the same night. I liked the old Pride tournaments but those days are gone and I much prefer the champion vs challenger model we have now. If tournaments have to be done, Bellator style is the way to go.
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    Post  The_Axe_Emperor Thu Sep 09, 2010 2:28 pm

    sunthunder wrote: If tournaments have to be done, Strikeforce style is the way to go.


    Fixed cyclops
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Sep 09, 2010 6:15 pm

    sunthunder wrote: I much prefer the champion vs challenger model we have now.

    even when a lot of the challengers are undeserving and given their shots based on ability to draw?
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    Post  sunthunder Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:09 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    sunthunder wrote: I much prefer the champion vs challenger model we have now.

    even when a lot of the challengers are undeserving and given their shots based on ability to draw?

    I think saying "a lot of challengers are undeserving" is a stretch. Some challengers are undeserving, the majority do deserve their shots. The only really bad title shots that I think have been given out in recent memory in the UFC are Lesnar's initial shot and Couture's against Sylvia. Some title match-ups feel uninspiring, like some of the challengers to Anderson and GSP, but that's more to do with those two fighters utter dominance over their divisions. Even guys like Hardy, Leites, Cote and Koscheck have a decent win streak under their belt when they get their shots.

    It's not like tournaments are always stacked fairly either or give a true depiction of who the best fighter is. Naoya Ogawa made it to the semi-final of the biggest heavyweight tournament ever. The Dream lightweight GP final is a perfect example of why one night tournaments aren't good. Alvarez gets injured, Hansen, a guy eliminated in the second round comes in and wins because Aoki's exhausted from fighting 15 minutes already. He was an undeserving champion.

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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:37 pm

    The last 4 people to challenge for the each UFC title, not counting interim belts.

    HW title
    Shane Carwin
    Frank Mir
    Brock Lesnar - undeserved
    Randy Couture - undeserved

    LHW Title:
    Shogun - Undeserved rematch. He lost the first fight and should have been made earn a second shot. Didn't really deserve the first fight either. Struggled against Coleman and knocked out Chuck the chin who gets KO'd by everyone these days.
    Machida
    Evans - undeserved. Given a shot because Liddell was being promised an undeserved shot in he beat Evans but Chuck the chin was shown up.
    Griffin - undeserved, beat the worst Shogun ever and was only Hector Ramirez removed from being destroyed by Jardine

    MW Title:

    Sonnen
    Maia - undeserved but got the fight due to injury in fairness.
    Leites - undeserved, feeding Anderson an easy fight to attempt to draw for a highlight KO.
    Cote - undeserved, feeding Anderson an easy fight to attempt to draw for a highlight KO.

    and Belfort was also handed an undeserved title shot

    WW Title

    Hardy - Undeserved, more poor attempts at drawing the European market
    Alves
    Penn - Undeserved at WW but understandable
    Fitch

    LW Title

    Penn
    Edgar - Undeserved, but Maynard did turn the shot down in fairness.
    Sanchez
    Florian


    The UFC needs to implement a PROPER ranking system, not random fights to decide number 1 contenders. JDS vs Nelson for number 1 contender?? Please!
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    Post  sunthunder Thu Sep 09, 2010 8:56 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:The last 4 people to challenge for the each UFC title, not counting interim belts.

    HW title
    Shane Carwin
    Frank Mir
    Brock Lesnar - undeserved
    Randy Couture - undeserved

    LHW Title:
    Shogun - Undeserved rematch. He lost the first fight and should have been made earn a second shot. Didn't really deserve the first fight either. Struggled against Coleman and knocked out Chuck the chin who gets KO'd by everyone these days.
    Machida
    Evans - undeserved. Given a shot because Liddell was being promised an undeserved shot in he beat Evans but Chuck the chin was shown up.
    Griffin - undeserved, beat the worst Shogun ever and was only Hector Ramirez removed from being destroyed by Jardine

    MW Title:

    Sonnen
    Maia - undeserved but got the fight due to injury in fairness.
    Leites - undeserved, feeding Anderson an easy fight to attempt to draw for a highlight KO.
    Cote - undeserved, feeding Anderson an easy fight to attempt to draw for a highlight KO.

    and Belfort was also handed an undeserved title shot

    WW Title

    Hardy - Undeserved, more poor attempts at drawing the European market
    Alves
    Penn - Undeserved at WW but understandable
    Fitch

    LW Title

    Penn
    Edgar - Undeserved, but Maynard did turn the shot down in fairness.
    Sanchez
    Florian


    The UFC needs to implement a PROPER ranking system, not random fights to decide number 1 contenders. JDS vs Nelson for number 1 contender?? Please!

    Who would you given those title shots too instead?

    Shogun - who deserved it more than Shogun at the time he got his initial title shot?
    Evans - who deserved it more at that moment?
    Griffin - beat the best light heavyweight in the world, regardless of Shogun's form. Who deserves it more?

    Leites - was atleast on a 5 fight win streak, again, who deserved one clearly more at the time?
    Cote - was a replacement for injured Okami

    Hardy - you have a point to an extent, but was there a really deserving challenger being denied a shot because Hardy got his?

    Edgar - I don't think this was undeserving, his resume at lightweight is more impressive than Sanchez's.

    I'll agree that a lot of those fighters weren't super compelling as challengers, but I don't feel that any of those guys were getting their shots over anyone who really clearly deserved a chance. They all atleast came off a win, this isn't Brett Rogers getting a shot against Overeem, or Hansen getting a title shot at Fernandes in his first featherweight fight.

    As far as having legitimate title challengers, the UFC is far better than any other organisation in the history of the sport. Pride had some absolute bullshit matches for their belts back then.



    Anfields5thKing
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    Post  Anfields5thKing Thu Sep 09, 2010 9:20 pm

    When Shogun got his shot, Rampage was more deserving.
    When Evans got his shot, Rampage was more deserving.
    Griffin beat Shogun, still doesn't mean he deserved a shot. Again, DESTROYED by Jardine.

    5 fight win streak for Leites sounds really impressive. Until you look at his win streak. Not a decent win amongst them. Beat Nate the average with the help of two point deductions. Was given the shot on the back of beating the great Drew McFedries. Was that an eliminator? Would Drew have gotten the title fight if he'd won? Yushin Okami - clearly more deserving.

    Okami-Silva was never actually made. Was rumoured but never made. Okami was injured before the rumours, but it didn't become known until he asked about fighting Anderson.

    Koscheck was clearly more deserving than Hardy! Hardy had a split decision against Gono, beat Markham who's shit, gotten an undeserved SD against Davis and then beat the average Mike Swick. Koscheck is a much better fighter and gave GSP his closest fight since GSP came back from getting sparked,

    Edgar's resume is not more impressive at LW than Sanchez's. Beating post-Roids Sherk who still hadn't recovered from the beating Penn gave him, is not better than beating Joe Daddy and Guida. And Sanchez had his WW resume to boost his standing.

    Albion_Oakley
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    Post  Albion_Oakley Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:01 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote: Was given the shot on the back of beating the great Drew McFedries. Was that an eliminator? Would Drew have gotten the title fight if he'd won?

    LOL- good point

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