anyone can get caught, even the greats in their prime....

Fedor vs Werdum
GSP vs Serra
Sakuraba vs Schembri
Hughes vs Hallman
Rickson vs Ron Tripp


but to get the crap beat out of you for 20+ minutes by a guy who has not just holes in his game, they are more like crevasses....that is pretty poor form.

Basically what i'm saying is that Anderson was never a top pound for pound fighter...and to compare him with the likes of Fedor and GSP is simply wrong.

neither of those fighters were so badly and completley dominated by a fighter as Anderson has been.
And here we are talking about Chael Sonnen.
Sonnen is a talented tough and strong wrestler, with average standup and horrible submission defence.
Anderson has looked untouchable lately, though not impressive, but Sonnen was landing most shots on him, and also countering Anderson easily when he came forward, and dropping him to his knees.
from then on Sonnen did his thing, in fact he came closer to finishing Anderson than he did against any of his last 8 opponents.
he stayed on top of him and beat the crap out of him.

out of interest here are sonnen's losses before last night:



Trevor Prangley (submission round 1)

Forrest Griffin (submission round 1)

Akihiro Gono DRAW**

Jeremy Horn (TKO round 1)

Keiichiro Yamamiya (Decision)

Jeremy Horn (submission round 2)

Terry Martin (TKO round 2)

Babalu Sobral (submission round 2)

Jeremy Horn (submission round 2)

Paulo Filho (submission round 2)

Demian Maia (submission round 1)


and i have never seen Chael Sonnen put out a beating like the one he layed on Anderson.



bottom line;
Anderson was always overrated.


top p4p fighters list:

0. Minowaman
1. Fedor
=. GSP
3. Mauricio Shogun
4. Jose Aldo jr
5. BJ Penn
6. Lyoto Machida
7. Anderson Silva
8. Jake Shields
9. Frankie Edgar
10.John Fitch


none of the above fighters have been dominated in their prime as badly as anderson was (by a fighter in their weight class)
with the exception of fitch, and that was by the number one, Chael is somewhere in top 5 but not on the level of fitches opponent was.


discuss.

I was hugely impressed with Sonnen as I thought he was going to get chinned early on, but he battered Anderson for 22 mins or so, and just had a moments lapse in concentration. I used to be a big Silva fan but now I really cant stand the kid, this fake respect thing does my head in, he bows in front of him after being hammered for 4 rounds then whinges how he was not fit and the doctors told him not to fight, you just got mauled mate, admit it. I would highly fancy GSP if the two were t ever meet, as Anderson has a problem with wrestlers. I would agree he isnt the top p4p but I am not really sure who is anymore, or even if its a worthwhile debate. Hopefully however SOnnen will get a rematch and give AS another 25 of ass whipping and shake up the UFC some more.

some stats:

Compustrike claims Sonnen landed an MMA record 289 strikes during the fight. That included 218-11 to over the first three rounds and 51-2 in the first. FightMetric says the count was 320-64 overall in favor of Sonnen.
He was leading the fight, 40-34, 40-36, and 40-35, on the scorecards.

I 100% agree with this. People get caught all the time, its the way of MMA but last night Silva got battered. That fight wasn't anywhere near to being close, Sonnen IMO won the first round 10-8, won the next 3 10-9 and was winning the last round as well. I've been saying all along that Silva has poor takedown defence and that was a glaring weakness. Not only that but Sonnen easily won the standup as well, Sonnen- who has never outstruck anyone in his life, dominated SIlva standing and rocked him several times.

Its clear to me who the best P4P fighters in the world are and he isn't one of them. Sure he has looked impressive but against guys who were tailor made for him to beat. Silva is the most protected fighter in MMA.

I think you are playing Chaels skills down to much personally.
Afterall,apart from getting caught early be Maia,which is nothing to hold against him,Chael has been on a roll.
Using losses that he suffered 4-5+ years ago,isn't a reflection on the fighter he is today either.

His wrestling for MMA is top draw and he has proved that against many good fighters that usually have an easier more successful time stuffing takedowns and smothering guys with good ground games,unless you think Filho,Okami and marquardt are all over rated too.

Anderson hasn't looked great for the last few fights and last night was the 1st time he has been made to look ordinary by anyone in the last 5 years or so,which I think you have to take your hat off for Chael more than having a pop,because Silva got found out or some crap like that,maybe it's an attitude problem,a motivation problem or he is just coming into the down side of his career,he is 35 afterall,but there is no doubt that he has earned his place as a top P4Per and with that win,he is still up there,he'll only be or should be moved out of that picture when someone beats him and that is still yet to happen.

When you can boast the longest undefeated run and championship run in UFC history,while having wins against the likes of Franklin,Hendo,Marquardt and Maia and you are still unbeaten in the UFC,then theres no doubt he is the best MW ever and still a top P4Per.(how long he can carry on without losing and maintaining his ranking is up for debate but his place at the moment,after winning shouldn't be even if he didn't look his dominating,piss taking normal self)

He got schooled for nearly 5 rds no doubt,but no matter how you look at it,he still got the win,he's still 13 unbeaten and has defended the title successfully 7 times and at the end of the day thats all that counts,this is a result buisness,you get nothing for looking good and losing.

Nog always kept his ranking after some of the beatings he used to take before he got some of his wins,if anything because everybody loves Nog,he used to get credit for it,but since Anderson has been and is IMO a dick,people really are just hoping for anything to discredit him,which again IMO,you can't after what he's done in the game so far and the fact that he overcame that beating last night,which showed character and a champions spirit by never giving up and eventually finding a way to pull the win out of his arse.

I had written this off before it had even started like everyone else had but after the first round I was really wanting Chael to finish off Anderson. He put on a real clinic but unfortunately couldn't finish things up.
Silva was exposed big time last night, injury or not, he looked poor. At the start of each round, especially, 3, 4 and 5 you could see he was agitated and wanted to finish Sonnen, but he put out some sloppy looking combination's and got taken straight back down.

Anybody know what Chael said to Rosenthal just as the fight finished?

What did people think of the other fights?
I was routing for Nelson but Cigano just has too much of everything and pretty much used him as a punch bag for 15 minutes. Who next for Big Country now? If Schaub beats Gonzaga, will they re-match do you think?

The funny thing about last night was that it shows up a previous argument of yours Chesty. When Davis fought Hardy you're reasoning for why Hardy won that fight was to post picture of how both fighters looked after the fight. Well last night Silva walked out without a scratch and Sonnen walked out looking like he'd had his ass kicked.

Now, moving on. Silva clearly wasn't fit to fight. But it became very clear early on that he wanted to end the fight by submission, possibly in response to Sonnen's comments about the Nogs. He wasn't trying to knock Sonnen out until it got to the point where he was well behind. Hence he had his gi at hand, not something he normally does. Sonnen was winning the fight, but he was never close to finishing it and he got beaten in the end by a better fighter. There's almost certain to be a rematch and we'll hopefully see what a fit Anderson Silva can do against Sonnen. This fight doesn't drop Silva at all. He's still number 2 after Fedor P4P.

As for the rest of the card, Alves fucked up his weight cut. I'm flying out next week so i'll give him a slap from all of us who picked him in the predictions league. He messed up his cut, got dryhumped to death and he's got a bald spot. Bad week for the pitbull.

Struve showed his nothing more than a middle of the road fighter. Wasn't impressed.

Hugely impressed by Matt Hughes! Great left hook followed by the craziest choke i've ever seen.

Guida was Guida.

JDS came through a very tough test but Nelson comes out of the fight with great credit. What a chin! JDS needs to become more versatile and he needs to work on his sprawl, Cain, Brock or Carwin would have taken him down at will last night. His chin is impressive though, and his hands are quick and accurate.

Haven't seen the other fights yet.

You can't take any credit away from Andersons win, it was an incredible come from behind submission, but a fight like that does indicate he's on the decline. Sonnen was running him through on the ground, and rocked him standing. Anderson will probably have to re-match Sonnen again, and still has the prospect of Vitor on the horizon. He's 35 years old and sometimes fighters do just go, their prime just ends. I don't know what to think about the rib stuff. He didn't look in any discomfort when leaping onto the cage in celebration.

I don't know how much if affects pound-for-pound standings. I've always had GSP over Anderson and Fedor, and I'd stand by that. I just think in general the welterweights are far better fighters than the middleweights Anderson has fought.

The other fights were great. Fitch was outstanding, he was controlling distance well standing and showed some good counters, and just pwned Alves on the mat. Alves looked flat but it's his own fault.

JDS looked good, but not over-whelmingly so. His cardio and defence are worrisome. Nelson hit him a lot, and yeah he clearly has a good chin, but you can't fall back on that at heavyweight and never expect to get hurt. His defence was consistantly poor too, he left his head straight up and his hands down several times in the first minute. Having said that, I still expect JDS to be far too much for Lesnar standing, should they meet. Velasquez will be tougher.

Before I get back to Silva, I want to talk about the rest of the card.

I picked Alves to win but I regretted it as soon as I saw him at the weigh in and heard he messed up the weight cut. Fitch's style is defintiley not the best and he is in no way the most exciting fighter in the world but you can't deny he is a very good fighter. He looked good yesterday, his striking, his wrestling. Best grinder in MMA today. It was a tough comeback fight for Alves, I think he should fight someone like Rick Story next. He needs to work his way back up or he can move to MW.

Struve showed a lot of heart in the comeback but I seriously worry about how much punishment he takes at such an early age. I've seen him fight 6 times and 5 times he has taken beatings of some kind, twice he has been KOed. I think he has gone in the UFC far too early because he doesn't really have a HWs body, he needs time to grow into his body. I think a good next fight for him would be Madsen. No risk of getting hurt there, just dryhumped and a good test all the same.

At 36 years of age Matt Hughes has finally got some standup in his game. He looked very good and to choke out someone like Alemida was very impressive. I think a good next fight for him is Hallman, it gives him a chance to avenge two losses and Hallman won last night as well. Surely Hughes can't go after the title again?

Dissapointed RDA vs Guida ended like that, I was impressed by Dos Anjos. His footwork and leg kicks are very good. He defintiley won the first round, and I think he edged the second. Guida did absolutley nothing with those takedowns, he was fighting for the judges.

Nelson is a tough motherfucker, he took some insane shots. JDS looked good but he needs to add more range to his striking and he gassed quite quickly. His chin is very good but he leaves it up in there far too much, just a little bit worrying when he's fighting someone like Carwin. I though his takedown defence looked good, his explosion from his hips is very good. I think he has a great chance to beat Lesnar if it comes to that, Velasquez is a tougher matchup.


Now onto Silva.

His wrestling for MMA is top draw and he has proved that against many good fighters that usually have an easier more successful time stuffing takedowns and smothering guys with good ground games,unless you think Filho,Okami and marquardt are all over rated too.

Sonnen deserves no credit for beating Filhio who was clearly disillusioned in that fight. I don't know what happened but his head was wrong and he wasn't focused. See what happened when a fully focused and fit Filhio fought Sonnen. Okami IS overated. Marquardt was a very good win who happens to be one of Silva's best career wins.

GSP is the best P4P fighter right now with Fedor just behind him. Those two are clearly the best in the world right now, no question.

Anfield i know what you are talking about when me (or was possibly ben) posted each fighters face after davis/hardy.
but in fairness, that was not really a similar circumstance, since Hardy dropped Davis twice and opened a big cut from top position, when Davis was "winning the fight" by just laying on Hardy.
last night was different because Sonnen was winning the standup and he dropped Anderson, and he was flattening him with GnP.
Chael looks beaten up after every fight much like Fedor.
whereas Anderson apparently (we have hardly seen it thus far) is similar to BJ Penn in that he doesnt look any different. (after the second GSP fight BJ looks like he just got out of bed).


apart from getting simply dominated, i don't know why you simply assume he was "clearly unfit to fight" this is in the USA with athletic commisiion who make sure all the fighters are clear to fight.


anyway onto the rest of the card...

Alves looked slooooooow, obviously down to a bunch of factors, ring rust, the surgery, but mostly having to cut so much weight!!
Fitch did what we all thought he would try to do, and he succeeded.


i was totally happy for Hughes, i will be getting me some country breakfast bars if it means i will be able to choke guys like that!!!
i agree with whoever it was said that he should fight Hallman, i dont think judging by the things he says, that he is particularly hungry for another title run.

Commission medicals are incredibly poor and straight forward. You go to YOUR OWN doctor, he checks you out and signs off on you. They don't do xrays. they only scan the head and nothing else. A rib injury will not be detected in a commission medical exam.

Silva's movement was clearly limited, both when attacking and defending. He lacked the explosion and reach he normally has because he couldn't extend. And he didn't have his usual bop and weave ability. All because of his ribs. Sonnen never hurt Silva standing. He halfdropped him twice when Silva was off balance but they were more slips than anything. And Silva dropped his hands and let Sonnen hit him and it didn't rock him.

Here's some news on the rematch:

White on whether we could see Silva-Sonnen II: "It's definitely a rematch I think people are going to want to see. Looking at Twitter, everybody is saying, 'Rematch. Rematch.' We'll see what happens. Vitor is waiting to fight right now, too. We could do the rematch with Chael, but we'll see what happens. We'll see how it goes."

On the numbers this fight drew in: "Trending tonight was insane. We think we did a big number tonight – a really big number. If not one more [expletive] person buys this pay-per-view, I'm happy as a pig in [expletive]. That's how well we did. We have a little formula, and we know how to calculate what we think we're going to do. It was a 'holy [expletive]' moment again."

On Sonnen's suggestion that he and Silva do Ultimate Fighter 13: "We don't know what we're going to do yet."

Credit: MMAJunkie

On Fitch's title shot:

White on who is in the welterweight title picture: "What happens is timing is everything. We've got to figure out – Koscheck and 'GSP' are going to fight after their season of 'The Ultimate Fighter.' He's a winner tonight. Shields is going to fight Kampmann. We'll see how this whole thing plays out."

On Fitch's style: "He's not the exciting fighter you hope for, but the guy's so dominant, so what are you going to do? You've got to give him his respect. He's one of the best guys in the world. But tonight, out of the entire card, my Twitter [followers were] not too excited about Jon."

Fitch on his plans: "The only thing on my mind right now is getting married in three weeks. That's my focus. I'm going to enjoy tonight. I'm going to enjoy my win tonight. I'm going to enjoy my wedding, and then I'll deal with the future in the future."

On how he's improved since losing to Georges St-Pierre: "Losing that fight to [St-Pierre], it showed what I was missing. I've gone through great pains to change myself as a fighter and as a person to better myself – from changing my diet to adding a strength and conditioning coach, a new standup coach, getting back to basics with my wrestling, working my submissions and grappling even more. I'm a much better fighter today than when I fought Georges."

White on Fitch fighting his friend Josh Koscheck: "What you're not hearing is 'no.' He's not saying, 'No, I will not fight Josh Koscheck.' I said it before, and I'll say it again. From what I understand of Jon Fitch and what I know of Josh Koscheck, I believe that both of these guys have the desire, the heart and the spirit to take this fight. There's been guys that have been like, 'No way. There's no way I'll fight him.' These guys aren't saying that. They're not saying, 'No.'"

Credit: MMAJunkie

And finally the bonuses from last night:

The UFC 117 fight night bonuses have been announced, and Anderson Silva is going home a happy man.

Silva picked up Submission of the Night for his late-fifth-round triangle choke on Chael Sonnen, and also grabbed Fight of the Night along with Sonnen for their bout.

Matt Hughes also won Submission of the Night for his modified guillotine/arm triangle choke that put Ricardo Almeida to sleep. Knockout of the Night went to Stefan Struve for his devastating second-round TKO of Christian Morecraft.

The bonuses for UFC 117 were $60,000.

Credit: MMAJunkie

Good to see they gave Hughes the bonus as well, would have been a real shame if he didn't get rewarded for that awesome sub. Big money for Silva after that, 120 000 plus whatever else he earns for fighting.

I think it has to be Sonnen and then Vitor(who should fight the winner of Nate-Palhares). Vitor hasn't earned a shot at MW. He's never even fought in the UFC at 185! Ever!

At 170, if Kos beats GSP and Shields beats Kampmann, then it'll be Kos-Shields. If GSP wins, Fitch will get the next shot.

Anfields5thKing wrote:I think it has to be Sonnen and then Vitor(who should fight the winner of Nate-Palhares). Vitor hasn't earned a shot at MW. He's never even fought in the UFC at 185! Ever!

100% agree with that

Struve- Morecraft was a brutally late stoppage, very uncharacteristic of Herb Dean.


Nothing i can say that hasn't already been said on the other fights, Silva got lucky is one thing i will say though, completely outclassed in every area by Chael.

Actually just watching the Silva fight again and at the end of round one he gets up and points to his ribs. Interesting.

I was gutted for sonnen after all the graft he had obviously put in in training and during the fight. He just needs to work some more on sub defence until the rematch. Silva certainly looks a lot more fallible now and I dont expect to see him clowning around in a fight again any time soon.

I thought it was a great card again, been two great shows in a row, was surprised that Rosenthal was given the title match and he nearly messed it up, nad herb dean was really slow stopping the Struve - Morecroft fight, very entertaining.