UFC 115 review and thoughts

(Long Post)

Wow was I happy after the main event, I jumped out my seat like never before . If you know me on this forum you will know Rich along with GSP is my favourite fighter. As happy as I was for Rich, I felt sorry for Liddell because this could very well be the last time we see him fight.

The match I thought was very exciting, both guys were throwing punches, kicks, they were mixing it up and weren't holiding back. Rich buckled Chuck's knee early and landed good shots throughout the round. Liddell rocked Franklin once and ofc broke his arm with one of those kicks. I gave that round to Rich honestly, he seemed to do the more damage for me. I know Liddell got a takedown but he did nothing with it. The end came when Liddell was piling forward and Franklin caught him with a beautful counter right hook square on the chin and he finished him from there. Rich has only ever landed one other shot like that in his career.

What does the fight mean for them? For Rich it certainly makes him relevent again. I'm not going to get carried away and saying Rich is back and taking the title. But Id say he is top 10 again and can certainly try to go for the LHW title. Next logical fight would be Lil Nog I think, they both want the top prize and all the other contenders are busy. I think the Machida vs Rampage winner gets the next shot so the Franklin vs Lil Nog winner should face the winner of Toney vs Couture. The winner can have a shot, but by then, who knows what Jones, Bader and Davis will be doing. This was a huge win for Rich's career and Im really happy for him. He has now beaten the two best LHWs of all time. Ye, ye they were past there best and there was a zillion other factors involved but it really helps his legacy as a whole. Rich has still never gone on a losing streak which is also good to see.

WAR FRANKLIN!

As for Chuck, I hate to say it but it might well be the end. You can't blame lifestyle, bad training or lack of effort on this one. He has lost to some very good fighters, 3 of them went on to be champions but his chin is gone now it seems. He was KOed by hard hitters but his chin isn't the only problems. He can't protect himself against punches anymore, he keeps leaving himself exposed and his opponents have tagged him with ridiculous ease and brutally as well. He has paid for those mistakes. Rampage, Evans, Shogun and now Franklin have just taken advantage of his poor defence by KOing him and Wandy dropped him badly.

There is nothing left for Liddell now, he has done all he can and its time to retire methinks. He is just going to keep getting hurt. However, if he decides not retire straight away, there are two options I could see happening. HAve Liddell fight Kimbo as a co main event on PPV as an official retirment. That would make ridiculous money to be fair but I know, people will hate it. Its too much of a Pride-style squash match for some people which I can sort of understand. So I think the better option is to fight Ortiz for a third and final time. It seems like the perfect opponent, a guy he really hates, the most famous rivalry in mainstream MMA. The fight was meant to happen, the fight will make huge numbers as Liddell's final fight and he can have an official sendoff.

Ok finally onto the other fights:

Cro Cop looked very good last night, he recovered from two early Knockdowns and then just took over. Great to see him looking so hungry, you could see in his eyes he wanted it. After the early scare he outstruck Barry and landed some vicous shots. The thing I also liked about Cro Cop is for the first time in the UFC he has showed other apsects of his game. He absolutely dominated Barry on the ground. I knew he would, I just thought his pride would get in the way of him fighting like that. He landed a flurry on Barry, rocked him and finished with a RNC.

Dissappointing for Barry after the early success but he is still young. He has a lot to learn, he really needs to work on his ground game because its a big achilles heel for him. But he is a real nice guy and I beleive he has some potentiol. Give him Beltran/Meathead next to kill.

Cro Cop (BTW I found it hilarious how he asked for the bonus ) should sign a new contract and there are some intresting matches for him. This is the best he has looked since that OW tourtument in 2006 but im not getting carried away with him either. He won't be looking at the title any time soon and I really don't need to see him against Carwin/Lesnar/Velasquez ect

For me, I say he does the rematch with Nog first, its a fight people have wanted to see for a while now so lets put it together. I also want him to finally fight Randy, this already should have happened!

Did Kampmann look good or what? Dominated Thiago on the ground and got the better if the striking. I expected him to be better on the ground but not in the striking. Very impressive from Kampmann. Thiago showed a few nice touches but never got going. He should have tried to strike with Kampmann more because he has powerful hands. He was dominated on the ground and he got rocked as well, bad night for Thiago. Kampmann could be a potentiol victim opponent for GSP.

Rothwell vs Yvel was better than I expected it to be. Yvel is an idiot though, we mentioned on chatbox how suprising it is for a guy who has been in the sport as long him, still has a terrible ground game. To be fair he had some nice touches like the sweep but at times it was comical! He actually looked lost and when he had Rothwells back he didn't know what to do. He did more damage in 30 seconds though than Rothwell did the entire fight. I didn't understand why Yvel wanted to take Rothwell down in the last round, Rothwells legs were like jelly.

Condit vs Macdonald was FOTN. Shame about Macdonald after a great start but a good overall performance and Condit has a LOT of heart. He never gave up. His takedown defence really needs work though, Macdonald, who isn't a great wrestler took him down with ridiculous ease. In a division dominated by wrestlers that needs addresing to. I think the ref could have let it go on, less than seconds left. I wanted to see who the judges had.


Quick words on the prelims.

Dunham was incredibly impressive, he controlled Griffin with ridiculous ease and Griffin is a great wrestler. Dunham has a very good future, his hands need work though. The judge who scored it 29-28 should be fired, complete stupidity. I had it 30-27 Dunham.

HAHAHHA Mac Danzig got screwed

no prizes for guessing what was my favourite part of the night.



My thoughts are a bit scrambled because I'm still on a little bit of a high to be honest. I was very anxious about this fight, i actually thought crocop would lose, of course i will never predict for him to lose in the league but i thought he probably would get knocked out.

Crocop broke out the full kicking arsenal after recovering from his surgery, not to much effect against a seasoned kickboxer like Barry, but it was good to see.

I think having that guy (i didnt see him, he sounded dutch, possibly hypolite?) in his corner between rounds helped him, he protected his broken jaw and didnt get hit with another big right hand.
I think Barry became a bit stuck after he couldnt put Mirko away.

The thing that actually surprised me is that Mirko showed tremendous heart. He is my favourite fighter but i will admit that before this he never really came through adversity.
He showed why he is MMAs greatest ever striker.....by outstriking another great striker in MMA. People will say that Barry won the striking and forced Mirko to take him down but that is untrue.
Mirko did not look for the takedown only when they both came forward and clinched, and Barry was begging to be taken down. Mirko won the striking because he was beating the shit out of him come the end of the fight, thats how I score striking battles anyway.


Mirko hasn't really looked poor on the ground since the Nogueira fight, i think he is quite well rounded compared with other fighters in mma.
He did better than everyone expected against Fedor on the ground (and vice versa for fedor on the feet, ADCC level grappling behemoths Gonzaga and Overeem were able to control but not finish him on the ground.


next for Crocop? anything really.

i think he would have the beating of most of the division, he has shown his striking is back to an elite level, he took the JDS fight to heart i think.





i also think Chuck should retire, its just not healthy to be knocked out over and over.
not that hischin is total paper, him and rich had momentum into each other when the punch landed.
Good job by Rich, i was surprised how well he sized up next to Chuck, Rich is at least as big as the likes of Shogun and Rashad.

Im so pissed of with last nights fight outcomes.


How the fuck can you stop the Cain-Rothwell fight like that, and not stop Yvel destroying Rothwell in the 2nd?? Inconsistency !!

Barry should be kicking himself for not finishing Crocop in the 1st. He had that fight won there and then, he choked.

And dont get me started on the Rory-Condit stoppage


If it wasnt for Macdanzig losing like that () , i would have smashed something last night...


And not to mention one of my favourite WW's getting dominated for 3 rounds like that.

Also i think its pretty obvious Crocop will fight Rothwell next, if UFC decide to give him another contract.


And Kimbo aint co-main eventing any UFC PPV's in the future, he's cut remember? I think Chuck will retire now. Or maybe set up a retirement fight against Tito.

Rothwell has a hell of a chin, those were some BOMBS from the guy with more knockouts than any other mma fighter (citation needed )


I think Condit was going to win anyway, if he had lost after finishing like that it would have been bullshit, i always say the last round should be worth more since in some ways its a judgement on what has happened prior, and Condit was dominating him by the end of the fight.

I am a Paulo Thiago fan but i think he is comparitivley weak unfortunatley, i mean physically, i think he was outmuscled by Fitch and Kampmann.
Bu we all know the real reason he lost....


this guy was missing from his corner:

Im actually really suprised people were writing Cro Cop off in that fight. I don't want to act like I'm some kind of genious or anything, I just expected Cro Cop to win quite easily. He trains with Bonjasky now, a far better striker than anyone in MMA AND his legs are all fixed up. Only shame was not seeing a LHK KO. Barry got a lot of hype because he destroyed Hardonk, who is an average MMA fighter and a terrible K1 fightr.

Cro Cop's recovery was very good last night as well, as soon as he got dropped he raised back, Barry maybe could have been a little more aggresive in finishing the fight but to say he chocked is hard.

I also agree Cro Cop showed heart like never before. I think that shows the hunger is back. I knew Cro Cop was solid on the groud, he trained with Werdum.

Basically I don't want to see Cro Cop fight Lesnar/Carwin/Velasquez. Just like I don't want to see Matt Hughes fight GSP/Alves ect I think they will just be too big and athletic for him right now. Nog is the best fight right now because Randy is busy.

Randy vs Cro Cop HAS to happen based on the amazing arguments we will have on this forum about it

The ref could very well have stopped the fight, Rothwell wasn't protecting himself but he does have a hell of a chin. Yvel was certainly landing better shots than Condit was on MacDonald.

I don't agree the last round should be worth the most, especially if one fighter has dominated the first two rounds.

For example:

Brad Blackburn vs Chonan

If memory serves me correctly, Blackburn dominated the first two rounds. He was winning easily and Chonan was doing nothing in retalion. Third round, Chonan catches Blackburn with a punch. Blackburn gets rocked and doesn't really recover for the rest of the round. Chonan wins the round easily. Why should Chonan win the MMA match? Do the 2 dominating rounds by Blackburn go to complete waste? The third round should be worth as many others. If anything Id consider the most dominant round in the fight a better indicater to judge the fight.

As for MacDonalad vs Condit, I had Rory winning the first two rounds but he only just scraped the second and it easily could have gone to Condit. Third round could have been 10-8.

Condit would have won that fight even if it hadn't been stopped IMO. He gave MacDonald an ass-kicking in that third round and the first two rounds weren't clear to MacDonald. One could have been given 10-10. At worst he'd have got a draw. Good stoppage though. To be fair, MacDonald was just too young and dumb to tap. Great future in the sport but he needs to fight smarter. Condit vs Thiago next i think.

Thiago looked poor. He's so inconsistent. Frustrating. He's a far better fighter than Kampmann but he just didn't execute. Kampmann vs Swick next surely.

Rothwell deserves credit for taking a lot of punishment. But the ref called it correctly, can't compare that fight to Cain-Rothwell. Cain gave Rothwell a one sided ass kicking, Rothwell was winning the fight all along.

CroCop was never close to being finished. Getting sat down doesn't mean you're wobbly. Barry's only option would have been to go to the ground with Mirko, where he would have been schooled. Anyone want to question Mirko's heart now? Fighting with a broken cheekbone and restricted vision for 12 minutes. He beat Barry standing up and on the the ground. He took him down just to show the difference between a good fighter like Barry, and a great fighter like Mirko. If Mirko is fit and ready to fight, he can be a top 6 or 7 HW again. His kicks looked good. Not back to his best yet but hopefully his cheek heals quick and they get him back in there. Cro Cop vs Rothwell next. Yvel should be cut. Or given to Barry. Actually, Yvel vs Barry would be exciting.



Chuck was winning the fight. Unquestionable. He landed the better strikes, he got the takedown, he had Franklin on the run on numerous occasions and rocked him on more than one occasion. He looked really good until he missed the right hand and fell into Franklin's swinger. Striking, grappling, conditioning. Chuck had it all except a chin. Franklin to his credit, took the punches well and fought through the broken arm. He landed some good kicks and some decent shots. But he was getting beaten up. If Chuck had the power and chin he had 3 years ago that fight would have been long over. Chuck's chin is shot to pieces, that punch wasn't all that hard, it was just a desperate swing. Chuck's full weight was falling forward and Rich landed with a swinger.

Franklin cracks the top 15 at 205 with the win, but he can stop dreaming about title shots. Vera or Jardine will be next up i'd imagine. Or perhaps they'll give him to Bader.

I think we'll see Chuck fight once more, against Tito. He'll want to leave on a win and Tito is the only fight out there for him against a name opponent that he could win. Except Kimbo which makes more sense because of the draw it would be. But Chuck's legacy would be ruined if Kimbo knocked him out.

I really don't think you can say its unquestionable he was winning. The takedown shouldn't count for shit because he did nothing with it, he didn't pass or even land any good strikes from there. Franklin got up immediatley. Franklin was rocked once and it looked like he slipped.

Franklin vs Lil Nog should happen.

Chuck's face after the fight was that of a man who got the shit kicked out of him. Franklin didn't have a scratch on his face, but his arm was brocken.

What happened to the Anfield who was defending Chuck's chin To be fair, I didn't think the punch was that hard but Chuck has never had a great chin. Now its getting quite bad, he has been knocked on his ass too many times.

I like Kimbo but based on his last performance Liddell would eat him alive anywhere the fight went in all aspects. It would take a Matt Serra momment for Liddell to get Koed against Kimbo. Money wise it makes the most sence but I know some people will just hate the idea. Ortiz is probably better, it would still make a lot of money because its Liddell's last fight, Ortiz is a decent draw and some people want to see the fight after TUF anyway. Style wise, Liddell is a terrible match-up for Ortiz. Ortiz doesn't have a shot like he used to and Liddell's takedown defence haven't got any worse it seems, let them do it so Liddell can have his final sendoff.

Cain absolutely schooled Rothwell but when you look at the end of the fight what Yvel was doing was atleast as bad as what Yvel was doing as well. Honestly I think the Velasquez fight was stopped a little early because he was standing back up, but to be fair it was only a matter of time. Rothwell got the shit kicked out of him in that fight and he was probably lucky it was stopped when it was.

I agree everything you said about Cro Cop but people had reason to question his heart in the past. Even you have in the fight against JDS, this is by far the most heart Cro Cop has showed in a fight in his career and I say that as a good thing. The hunger for him is definitley back and top 8-6 isn't unrealistic. There isn't a better striker in the UFC HW division.

my quick run down

Chucks done but he was definitely winning the rd before that KO.

Cro-cop showed heart and was the better allrounded fighter and it showed in the end.Though barry should of atleast followed up those shots in the 1st and tried to rain down some bombs, but I think he suffered from the same thing as JDS,he showed far to much respect to one of his Idols,I mean fucking hell,who walks across the ring mid fight to have a cuddle but anyway i'm leaving of cro-cop after that,he deserves being shown abit of respect after that,he earned some of my respect back anyway (like that really means anything )

Kampman completely out classed Thiago for 3 rds,standing and on the ground.Kampman is just a far more rounded fighter and it showed.

I expected Rothwell to win a boring UD but I was happily surprised at the 1st 2 rds.I said it on Chatbox last night that 90% of fighters would of been out from one of those punches from Yvel never mind the barrage of them that Rothwell absorbed,gotta give ben credit for his chin and the fact he finished the fight,his cardio and legs looked shot at the end of the 2nd.
yvel is a clown if he thinks he can be a top fighter with just the skills he posseses.
Yvel vs Barry and Cro-cop(if he resigns)vs Rothwell next i'd say

Condit is one tough son of a bitch and just ended up breaking Rory in the end.zero shame though for Rory,he put up a great fight and i'm sure there is good things to come from him.
Rogans commentating was in full bias mode towards Rory I felt for this fight.I gave Rory the 1st rd,Condit the 2nd and then condit destroyed him in the 3rd.great fight though and easily FOTN,not sure it quite compares with garcia and zombie but it's well up there.

I was pissing myself thinking about you Danzig haters when Yves stopped it,an absolute joke stoppage,just like the Askren one on Thomas at I think bellator 14 a couple of months ago.
I think the manner of that loss saved Danzig from being cut for a while,well at least untill Wiman finishes him properly next time.

Dunham easily deserved the UD but I personally wasn't that impressed,maybe it was because Tyson's defence was so good that I thought Dunham controlled him without really doing anything.
plus I lost my Trump on this fight,so that my have come into play slightly

I thought this was a really great night of fights from top to bottom,really enjoyed it.

says he broke his hand and foot in rd 1






Heres a gif that will make all you cro-cop fans feel nice and fuzzy inside.



I think his foot must of lifted up to about 8ft

UFC President Dana White has been critical of referees in the past for letting bouts go a little too long. So, when asked at the UFC 115 post fight press conference what his thoughts were on the ref stopping Carlos Condit from pummeling Rory MacDonald any further with 9 seconds left in their fight, it should come as no surprise White was happy:

"I'm the first one to blast a referee or judge for making bad calls, but in my opinion, referees aren't looking at the time -- they couldn't give a shit what time it is or how much time is left. They're there to protect the fighters. Rory's a young guy, he's got a lot of fights ahead of him and he took a lot of damage in that last round. I didn't have any problem with the stoppage. It's just unfortunate when a fight stops with seconds left, you know? It's just one of those things, but you won't hear me bitching about that one."

Reports in Croatia say that Crocop has retired from MMA.


I dont think Barry fought to his total potential in that fight, he showed too much respect and should have capitalised when he hurt Crocop in the 1st instead of smiling and hugging him


It was like he was just happy to be there.

Allright lads, havnt been able to get on much, should have the internet in my new house this week so Ill get the Calendar and rankings done then...

Crocop DOES look to be retiring after all...

“In addition to winning the Pride Grand Prix Finals, it’s my favorite fight of my career [but] most of the training proved to me that I am now too old for this…I don’t know about a new contract with the UFC. I believe that I gave this game a lot, I fought with the greatest fighters.”

“For 20 years I lived this life and now I have no motivation for the fight, no mental strength for all the Spartan training. I am no longer so hungry for victory. I will not stop training, but if I am asleep I’ll stay in bed and practice an hour later.”

Fair play to him, his skills werent what they used to be, beating Barry in a really entertaining fight is a good way to bow out of the sport. I dont think there is a point in keeping fighting, it wasnt a mind blowing performance and ive my doubts wether he could even avenget the losses to Kongo, Gonzaga, JDS etc.. Although he might be able to beat Nog I dont see much point in sticking around when he doesnt have the hunger anymore.

Its been said a million times before but I think cutting to 205lbs would be the only way to become a contender again and If he wants a break from training I dont think he would be up for keeping up that level of training AND cutting weight.

Id be happy to see him retire on a high note.

ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:I really don't think you can say its unquestionable he was winning. The takedown shouldn't count for shit because he did nothing with it, he didn't pass or even land any good strikes from there. Franklin got up immediatley. Franklin was rocked once and it looked like he slipped.

Chuck's face after the fight was that of a man who got the shit kicked out of him. Franklin didn't have a scratch on his face, but his arm was brocken.

What happened to the Anfield who was defending Chuck's chin

Chuck took him down easily. He also dropped him once, and rocked him at on least two other occasions. Chuck was winning the round very easily.

Chuck had the cut on his eye which came from a clash of heads and his mouth was bleeding from the punches Franklin landed after he was already out. When he left his locker room after the fight he had barely a mark on him. Rich has a bruised and swollen face and a broken arm.

I have ALWAYS said Chuck has a poor chin. Just didn't think it was bad enough for someone like Franklin to KO him but it was Chuck's momentum more than Franklin's power that KO'd him.