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    UFC 151 CANCELLED!

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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:57 pm

    is that the coward that has fought and destroyed a who's who of the worlds best LHW's in the world in just under 2 years Very Happy

    Oh I forgot,he's a HW blah,blah,blah
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:36 pm

    Machida turns down Evans rematch on short notice,wants Anderson money for 3 week training

    Hendo turns down Lil Nog

    weidman turns down Vitor fight

    cro-cop turns down schillt fight at Dream 1,fights Mizuno instead.

    Fedor turns down most lucrative deal in MMA to fight Brock

    fedor turns down reem fight(according to Reem)

    Gardner just came out and said he refused 1 mil to fight fedor

    rickson turned down a fight with sakuraba

    wandi turns down the stann fight

    randy turned down bodogs offer to fight fedor

    Chuck turned down a fight with Lindland

    Hioki turns down Aldo fight

    Tito turns down rashad fight

    Shogun turns down glover fight




    all these and tons more top class fights have been turned down because they didn't make sense for one of the fighters,JJ obviously feels fighting cheal fight on 8 days notice doesn't make sense for him,so I don't see why JJ's is getting the shit that others don't get.




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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  1972-casual on Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:49 pm

    Jon Jones should come down Long Eaton, he'd get his fucking head kicked in!
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    Cowboys From Hell
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:03 pm

    Don't think coward is the right word but he has certainly shown his true colors to the Zuffa brass a company man he clearly isn't. I still find It hard to defend his actions based on the fact he thought of himself a head of fans, other fighters on the card including team mates.

    Tito took on Cote on a few days notice in a very similar situation unlike Jones who is obviously familiar with Sonnen as a fighter I would bet Tito probably didn't know anything about Cote.

    I remember Joe Calzaghe accepting a fight with Chris Eubank on a week notice (roughly) after Steve Collins 'retired' before the fight (you can say duck If you want) a Champion or challenger in this case stepped up and took a fight to save a card for me thats what true champions do.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:07 pm

    According to Lance Pugmire of the LA Times,Lorenzo Fertitta told him Shogun also turned down the fight.

    @lorenzofertitta tells me Shogun Rua also turned down shot at Jones to set up Belfort as Sept. 22 opponent. ... Fertitta says, "Thank god Belfort is from the same generation as LIDDELL, Hughes, etc. REAL fighter!"


    so Shogun and Machida fight for the right to face JJ last month,yet both turn down a chance to fight him on a months notice.
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    sunthunder
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  sunthunder on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:16 pm

    Bit harsh, Shogun has a 45 day no contact suspension for the Vera fight.
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    Mryzyz
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Mryzyz on Fri Aug 24, 2012 7:30 pm

    Payne's right. Jones deserves no flak for turning down the Sonnen fight, because, you have to understand, it may have been inconvenient for him.

    It's like if a head chef at a fully booked restraunt, had to cook a slightly different menu on short notice because a bunch of ingredients weren't delivered on time. It may inconvenience him to have to do this, so no one can blame him if he refused. The damage to his employers and inconvenience to the customers is irrelevant.

    Chefs have turned down job offers before, what's the difference?


    In fact, it's for these very reasons Lennox Lewis refused to fight Vitali Klitschko.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:09 pm

    Cowboys From Hell wrote:Don't think coward is the right word but he has certainly shown his true colors to the Zuffa brass a company man he clearly isn't. I still find It hard to defend his actions based on the fact he thought of himself a head of fans, other fighters on the card including team mates.

    Tito took on Cote on a few days notice in a very similar situation unlike Jones who is obviously familiar with Sonnen as a fighter I would bet Tito probably didn't know anything about Cote.

    I remember Joe Calzaghe accepting a fight with Chris Eubank on a week notice (roughly) after Steve Collins 'retired' before the fight (you can say duck If you want) a Champion or challenger in this case stepped up and took a fight to save a card for me thats what true champions do.

    getting a great opportunity to step up and get a foot further up the ladder to improve your status and earning potential is worth the risk,but non of that applies to JJ in this situation,it's a no win situation for him.

    If he beats Cheal,then it's,he beat a blown up MW who came in on short notice and if he loses,he loses millions probably.

    Fighters fight for themselves first,it's their career and it's their own bank balances they fights for,your deluded if you think fighters fight for the fans or their employees first,that's just shit publicists tell fighters them to say.

    Jon Jones has successfully got where he is today by preparing for fights and since he's now the champ and has much more to lose than other fighters,the main thing he's earned is the right to prepare properlly when risking his current status.
    Preparing for fights is probably the main reason he has looked so comfortable and keeps coming out virtually unscathed of these fights,while beating all these really talented top fighters.
    so why would he risk what he's built,to take this cheal fight.

    what would happen if he lost,his pay gets effected,sponsorship and all other things associated with being the dominant champ disappear,his stock would plummet.

    So is that all worth risking,by not training for a guy like Cheal properly and going into a fight with a plan slapped together in 3 days,I don't think so.

    people are making it out as if JJ has made some selfish decision,well firstly,JJ didn't kill this card,the UFC chose to kill the card because they didn't have the for sight to have a back up plan in place.
    JJ's is not responsible for the well being of all the fighters on that card,the UFC are,and like i said before the idea that JJ is getting any blame for this card collapsing is just complete bullshit to me.
    Hendo knew of his injury over a week ago,as his training partners said they hadn't seen him at the gym for over a week,he could of gave the UFC more time to find another solution if he had came straight out with the injury..

    and the fans are only moaning because we have lost out on a card,would you or anyone of us dip into our own pockets to replace JJ lost earnings or potential earnings,if he lost this fight after going into it completely unprepared just to please us fans and his bosses.

    Mryzyz confused

    have you seen gordan Ramseys reaction when someone asks for his food to be done a different way,they don't ask again,and i bet gordans investors don't have anything to say to him about it.

    I'm struggling to find anything that is remotely comparable to this in your cooking comparison apart from maybe JJ may have inconveniently had to cut out his favourite kit kats and replaced them with them yukky nutribars or something while in training.

    a Cook making last minute changes to his menu for a night to a World champion fighter risking his health and livelyhood Suspect


    Have you been watching to much chopped or something by any chance.



    Would you take the option of a job your boss offered you,knowing that your probably not fully prepared for it and are going into it half blind,with the kicker of,if you fail at it,your potential earnings will more than likely drop by at least 50%.
    when you have the option to say no,lose nothing and resume as normal,knowing you'll be fully prepared for your next job.
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    redmeanie77
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  redmeanie77 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:16 pm













    LMAO guys on this thread ready to attack Bones for not accepting fight on 8 days notice, then their favourite fighters turn down title shot on a months notice.

    Awkward.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:29 pm

    sunthunder wrote:Bit harsh, Shogun has a 45 day no contact suspension for the Vera fight.

    geek You would of thought this Lance Pugmire would of known this,before making that kind of statement.

    I think anyone fighting to earn the title or defend the title should have the chance and right at having a full training camp,so they can come in fully prepared and at the best of their abilities.

    it's fair to the fighters and the fans.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:35 pm



    Dan Henderson’s coach for Muay Thai and MMA striking Daniel Woirin revealed exclusively to Fighters Only today that the injury to Dan Henderson’s knee happened three weeks ago, when he tried to defend a takedown in a training.

    Henderson’s team had to convince the 41 year-old fighter not to perform and also confirmed that they have been told Henderson will get another title shot as soon as he is completely recovered from the injury.

    “It was very difficult for him to refuse the fight," said Woirin. "All the team had to convince him not to do it."

    “We did a final sparring yesterday to evaluate his condition and he really didn't have the chance to fight with Jones. It is so depressing for everybody. Many things are involved in a high-level fight like this one, but unfortunately, this happened."
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    Mryzyz
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Mryzyz on Fri Aug 24, 2012 8:53 pm

    Turning down a fight months in advance is different to turning down a fight to replace your existing fight that people had already bought tickets for and people had spent millions advertising.
    When Shogun refused to fight Texiera, there was still plenty of time to book Shogun another fight, and no one had invested anything in Shogun fighting at a particular date. No problem.

    What I was getting at with my hastily arranged culinary analogy, is that Jones screwed over his employers and the fans, is putting his own interests above everyone elses, all because he doesn't want to take a risk.

    So when people lambast him for being 'selfish' and 'a coward', they are entirely justified, because that is exactly what he is
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:13 pm

    Selfish,sensibly looking after his own best interests,it depends how you choose to look at it I suppose.

    I can't see any substance in the coward statements though
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Mryzyz on Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:28 pm

    Looking after his own best interests at the expense of everyone else is pretty much the definition of selfish, no two ways about it

    When the reason for being selfish, is because of the risk involved, i.e. He was not prepared to take a risk, for fear of personal repercussions, then you can add cowardice as well.
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:13 pm

    So all of the fighters that turned fights down are cowards on that logic,as they all turned down the fights because of the risks involved.


    It wasn't at the expense of everyone else,the UFC made that decision all by themselves.

    If an employee is contracted to do a certain job,but refuses to do a different last minute job he's not contracted to do,does that company then send the whole workforce home from work because of his refusal ?

    No it's there responsibility to find a solution and fix it.

    they asked JJ,he was in his rights to say no(if he wasn't he'd be getting sued the shit out of by ZUFFA)he said no,now it's still the UFC responsibility to find alternatives,and if they have to make the decision to cancel the card because they had no back up plans,then guess what,that's still their responsibility and the blame falls firmly on them for not being able to rescue it.

    What would of happened if both hendo and jones had pulled up injured,who's fault would of been then and who's responsibility to the fans and the rest of the fighters on the card would that fall upon.
    and if you say the UFC,then why isn't it there responsibility now?

    Jones rightly turned down a fight against the completely undeserving sonnen on 8 days notice(only 3 days to prepare with his team)
    The UFC are solely at fault for not having a solid preplanned back up plan,for a situation like this,this is not and can not be the responsibility of a fighter.

    Jones signed a contract to fight Dan Henderson,not to headline UFC 151 and not to fight Cheal Sonnen,he isn't a promoter,matchmaker,partner or anything else,he's a fighter signed up to fight a specific fighter and it's not his job to rescue a card if something happens to his opponent.
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    Mryzyz
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Mryzyz on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:44 pm

    Hmm.. you keep arguing with me, yet we do not explicitly disagree.

    Of course Jones had no obligation to do anything but act in his own best interest. I don't dispute that.

    I would though, like to suggest a theory, that if someone only ever acts in their own best interest, doing so does not exclude them from all possible criticism.

    Nor does it exonerate them of any negative consequence their actions may have.
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:57 pm

    Ok we'll end this then as we are obviously blurring the lines of the discussions.

    I think JJ makes lots of bad decisions and in many cases has come across as an arrogant prick and deserves criticism in those cases,but in this case,In a nutshell for me

    I don't agree with fans blaming the cancellation of this event on JJ's,the blame should fall firmly and solely on the shoulders of the UFC and their planning or in this case lack of it.

    and I'm pretty disgusted with the way Dana and the UFC have passed this blame on and how so many fans have lapped it up,instead of using there heads and directing the abuse where it's deserved.

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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:01 pm

    Oh and don't forget this is coming from a UFC Fanboy,ZUFFA Zombie etc Very Happy
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    Mryzyz
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Mryzyz on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:16 pm

    Both the UFC and Jones had opportunities to save the event. Both are to blame. You're right, the UFC and Danas public vilification of Jones is a very transparent attempt to offload their blame onto him.

    Another point I'd like to make, which I haven't so far because I didn't want to complicate things, is that it was obviously not in Joneses best interest to turn down the Sonnen fight.

    Not when the alternative was a predictable avalanche of toxic PR, and (at the time) Machida with a few weeks to prepare.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:43 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:is that the coward that has fought and destroyed a who's who of the worlds best LHW's in the world in just under 2 years Very Happy

    Oh I forgot,he's a HW blah,blah,blah

    He is a HW. 240 is a HW. Beating up smaller men is not any sort of achievement.
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:47 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:Machida turns down Evans rematch on short notice,wants Anderson money for 3 week training

    Hendo turns down Lil Nog

    weidman turns down Vitor fight

    cro-cop turns down schillt fight at Dream 1,fights Mizuno instead.

    Fedor turns down most lucrative deal in MMA to fight Brock

    fedor turns down reem fight(according to Reem)

    Gardner just came out and said he refused 1 mil to fight fedor

    rickson turned down a fight with sakuraba

    wandi turns down the stann fight

    randy turned down bodogs offer to fight fedor

    Chuck turned down a fight with Lindland

    Hioki turns down Aldo fight

    Tito turns down rashad fight

    Shogun turns down glover fight




    all these and tons more top class fights have been turned down because they didn't make sense for one of the fighters,JJ obviously feels fighting cheal fight on 8 days notice doesn't make sense for him,so I don't see why JJ's is getting the shit that others don't get.




    Were any of these the UFC champion?? No they were not.

    Where any of these being offered fights against people who weren't in training camp and were much smaller men? No they weren't.

    And Randy didn't turn down Bodog's offer to fight Fedor. He wasn't allowed take the fight because he still had a fight left on his UFC deal when he retired and he was back in the UFC before the event took place in Russia where Fedor fought Lindland.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Aug 24, 2012 11:51 pm

    redmeanie77 wrote:


    LMAO guys on this thread ready to attack Bones for not accepting fight on 8 days notice, then their favourite fighters turn down title shot on a months notice.

    Awkward.

    Shogun couldn't have taken the fight anyway, as mentioned he's medically suspended. Machida had just landed back in Brazil, would have had at most about 16 days of training before he'd have had to fly to the States to do all the media stuff. Machida's not the champion, why should he risk his shot at the title without a full camp where he's already going in at a disadvantage of having to face a HW?
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:23 am

    I don't believe for one second that Dana told Jon Jones,if you don't take the Cheal fight,we're cancelling this whole event and I'm going to go public telling everyone it was your fault,or even threaten the fact.

    When he decided to turn it down,he could not of possibly imagined that Dana would publicly put him on blast for it and try and make him the scape goat for their whole total fuck up.

    And I nor many other mma fans,I bet would of believed it either,that they would do that to one of their Golden boys.

    I would bet Jones would of thought after turning it down,that they'll just postpone the Hendo fight,promote a fight up,find an alternative and just back him up,saying it was to close to the event to find a suitable replacement.

    Which I believe the UFC should of,this was a perfect time to stand up,appoligize and take their licks and losses on a badly planned card,while defending one of their fighters.

    This is some of the shittiest treatment I've seen from them to one of their fighters,it seems more like a selfish,emotional,cowardly reaction to instantly deflect blame instead of a well thought out business decision made by sound minds.

    If an Alternative main event,or some kind of back up plan was in place and this event went ahead,nothing would be being made of Jon Jones turning down a fight with Cheal Sonnen.

    infact I'd bet 90% of the MMA community would be laughing their balls off at the thought of Cheal getting a shot at Jon Jones.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  payneNglory1 on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:27 am

    Why should the champ risk his belt with only 3 days preparation with his team?

    I agree machida should have a full camp to prepare to fight JJ for his title,just as the champ should defend his belt,having a full camp training for his opponent.

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    Re: UFC 151 CANCELLED!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:50 am

    Jones had a full camp, Sonnen hadn't been training for the last few weeks. Every advantage was with Jones.

    There are more important things though, Alan Belcher has a spinal fracture. He could be out for a long time, although he's saying he'll be back in November. I have my doubts about that. Such a shame after already having to take so long off.

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