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    A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

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    uly
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:21 pm

    Coleman at heavyweight was about 240 I think, and so bigger than CroCop. I wouldnt be surprised if Yoshida was within 5lbs of him either
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 6:47 pm

    Wandi weighed more than Cro-cop when they fought,doesn't mean Wandi is bigger than Cro-cop or a HW.

    When BJ fought Machida,he weighed in at 185,doesn't mean he's a LHW either.

    Coleman wrestled between 190 - 220 lbs,he's a LHW and the only reason guys like randleman and Coleman were fighting at HW back then is because the field of talent was so thin,all the big money fights were all at HW.

    There is no way Coleman would of fought at HW in todays game,that's why when he did come back and try,he did it at LHW.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Sat Mar 10, 2012 10:45 pm

    Speaking of Cro Cop.

    Spoiler:
    Cro Cop just beat Ray Sefo I thought Sefo looked horrible I suppose It's nice for Mirko to go out on a win rather than stretcher. Very Happy

    Only other fight I caught was the Ghita fight nice Head Kick maybe the stoppage was little premature but personally I thought It wasn't that bad.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:28 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:Wandi weighed more than Cro-cop when they fought,doesn't mean Wandi is bigger than Cro-cop or a HW.

    When BJ fought Machida,he weighed in at 185,doesn't mean he's a LHW either.

    Coleman wrestled between 190 - 220 lbs,he's a LHW and the only reason guys like randleman and Coleman were fighting at HW back then is because the field of talent was so thin,all the big money fights were all at HW.

    There is no way Coleman would of fought at HW in todays game,that's why when he did come back and try,he did it at LHW.
    still odd to say CroCop was bigger than Coleman. I dont see the case for that. CroCop was only about 220lbs in his prime. Whilst Coleman would have been better served at 205, people also say the same for CroCop which is why the debate came up so that alone doesnt mean much. You also said Bader was bigger than Coleman, but Bader wrestled at 197lbs and Coleman at the 220lbs limit.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Sat Mar 10, 2012 11:31 pm



    Spoiler:
    such an ugly ugly fight
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:50 am


    this promoter should put on more fights, the event looked spectacular. granted, it would be pretty hard for kickboxing to sell out an arena like that these days if it wasnt crocop in croatia.
    Spoiler:

    Crocop was OK. when i saw his training for this fight i knew what it was going to be like, he clinches WAY WAY WAY too much, as soon as he lands a good shot he voluntarily clinches up. Maybe because im not a striker but i really dont understand it.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Sun Mar 11, 2012 10:34 am

    I think I would pick Jones to beat Fedor nowadays. Standing I think Fedor has a big advantage but Jones is quicker at this stage. I think Jones would stand for a bit, take a few punches which he won't like and then he'll go for a take down. I reckon he can easily take Fedor down and Jones elbows on Fedor's face leaves us with one result really.

    I'd be more eager to see Fedor fight Shogun. In 2005 both were considered the best in the world and while they've dropped off since then it would be a great fight. I think standing Shogun would give Fedor a lot of problems with his speed but Fedor could always take it to the ground. It would be an awesome fight.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Mryzyz on Sun Mar 11, 2012 2:22 pm

    At HW Fedor would destroy the Shogun that showed up for his last 3 fights. It would be like Hendo-Shogun if Hendo hadn't gassed.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:39 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:Coleman had the better amateur wrestling credentials,but I still say Bader easily beats a prime Coleman,like I said,all of todays current top 10 LHW's would beat a prime Coleman.


    JDS's best wins against HW's compared to Cro-cops best HW wins

    Cain ---- Barnett
    Werdum -- Coleman
    Cro-cop - Herring
    Carwin -- Igor
    Nelson -- Randelman
    Gonzaga - Alex
    Struve -- Fujita
    Yvel -- Barry


    I was obviously exaggerating when saying that cro -cop has fought more smaller guys in his career,but still there's alot of them and certainly more than 6.
    These were all smaller than cro-cop

    Takada
    Wandi x2
    Sakuraba
    Randleman x2
    Kanehara
    Oyama
    Coleman
    Minowa
    Yoshida
    Mizuno
    Perosh

    Igor

    14/40 fights

    That's about a third of his total fights where Cro-cop has fought guys smaller than himself.

    It would be a smaller list if you do one on the fighters he's fought that are bigger than him,especially if you take out his UFC fights,you know when he was still actually regarded as one of the best HW's in the world.




    So height is the only measure of size is it??
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sun Mar 11, 2012 5:41 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:Wandi weighed more than Cro-cop when they fought,doesn't mean Wandi is bigger than Cro-cop or a HW.

    When BJ fought Machida,he weighed in at 185,doesn't mean he's a LHW either.

    Coleman wrestled between 190 - 220 lbs,he's a LHW and the only reason guys like randleman and Coleman were fighting at HW back then is because the field of talent was so thin,all the big money fights were all at HW.

    There is no way Coleman would of fought at HW in todays game,that's why when he did come back and try,he did it at LHW.

    Coleman was bigger than CroCop when they fought. He'd spend his entire career to that point as a HW.

    "When BJ fought Machida,he weighed in at 185,doesn't mean he's a LHW either"

    makes no sense at all. What have LHW and weighing 185 got to do with each other.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 1:25 pm

    I think it's quite obvious that it was just a mistake and you can easily work out that I meant to type MW for 185.

    He got his weight up to that of a MW so he could fight a LHW,guess what,BJ still isn't a MW,is that better for you.

    It makes me laugh,that things like that are the only comebacks to defend Cro-cop as the #3 HW of all time.

    Say I except Coleman was a natural HW,which he wasn't,that still means the supposed #3 HW's record consists of him winning 11 fights out of his 27 fights before leaving Pride against fighters that were smaller than him and not HW's.

    He even managed to fight two more smaller guys after he left Pride.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Mon Mar 12, 2012 4:59 pm

    personally I think Barnett has had the better career than CroCop, and I think it's Fedor>Nogueira>Barnett for HW all time.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Mon Mar 12, 2012 5:42 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:I think it's quite obvious that it was just a mistake and you can easily work out that I meant to type MW for 185.

    He got his weight up to that of a MW so he could fight a LHW,guess what,BJ still isn't a MW,is that better for you.

    It makes me laugh,that things like that are the only comebacks to defend Cro-cop as the #3 HW of all time.

    Say I except Coleman was a natural HW,which he wasn't,that still means the supposed #3 HW's record consists of him winning 11 fights out of his 27 fights before leaving Pride against fighters that were smaller than him and not HW's.

    He even managed to fight two more smaller guys after he left Pride.

    Coleman wrestled over the LHW weight limit and fought all bar the last few fights of his career at HW. He was a natural HW. He looked like someone had sucked all the life and blood out of him when he cut to LHW.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 6:55 pm

    Probabally woth bringing up that figthmatrix (the one that uses computerised rankings) ranked Crocop as the 5th greatest Hw ever. Id say thats about right, despite the head to head losses you gotta see Barnett as number 3 like they do.

    Crocop was so so close to beating Nog, Barnett was 1-1 with close fights to Nog, and Crocop beat Barnett 2-0... and even when watching Crocop give Fedor a closer fight than Nog that Crocop was clearly on the level of these greats in his prime. These 4 were the best Hw's back then by a mile.

    Ill be 1st to admit he was shit in the UFC but like everyone points out his body had been through hell by the time he was there. Crocop had fought tougher opposition than any man alive for over a decade before he was hobbling around in the UFC cage.

    Fedor
    Wanderlei
    Barnett
    Nog
    Overeem
    Mir
    Coleman
    Randleman
    Igor
    Saku
    -------------
    Hoost
    Bonjasky
    JLB
    Aerts
    Hunt
    Bernardo
    McDonald
    Musashi

    This arguement that modern guys could beat gus from 10 years ago is pointless because they cant ever fight prime vs prime so its about what you did in your own time, not how your old ass went out against younger men.

    Also sports evolve as do people. Athletes get bigger and more physical every year. You think Rocky Marciano or Jack Dempsey at 180-190lbs could have beat the likes of the Klitschkos at 240-250lbs? Does it mean Vitali is a better fighter than Marciano because he would beat him head to head? No because the sport changes with each generation. Techniques get perfected, Athletes diets and training regimes are down to a fine science now.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:03 pm

    Cro Cop beat Barnett 3 times and he absolutely destroyed him in the last one as well. I don't think you can have Barnett over Cro Cop at all especially since Cro Cop has fought and beaten better opponents. Not to mention Barnett has been caught roiding 3 times while Cro Cop fought larger opponents for large parts of his career. Barnett's not close to Cro Cop.

    JDS if he beats Overroid though could overtake him already, but he still has a long career ahead of him barring any injuries.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 7:55 pm

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Cro Cop beat Barnett 3 times and he absolutely destroyed him in the last one as well. I don't think you can have Barnett over Cro Cop at all especially since Cro Cop has fought and beaten better opponents. Not to mention Barnett has been caught roiding 3 times while Cro Cop fought larger opponents for large parts of his career. Barnett's not close to Cro Cop.

    JDS if he beats Overroid though could overtake him already, but he still has a long career ahead of him barring any injuries.

    I would say its pretty much a given that the top 5 Heavies ever are

    Fedor
    Nog
    Barnett
    Crocop
    Couture

    You dont see Barnett as top 5 or just not better than Crocop? Some fighters just meet someone they cant beat, Hallman isnt better than Hughes for example.

    But your right Junior isnt far off starting to overtake some of them... a win over Overeem would be massive, id say if he wins his next 2 fights he could crack the top 5 of all time. But in a devision where KO's happen the most its a hard thing to stay on top for long.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:09 pm

    Payne a picture is woth a thousand words sometimes... heres the 245lbs Coleman in his prime, was going to rant on and say about Cain and other small heavies but look, this isnt a Lhw at all...



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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:23 pm

    No he's top 5 but behind Cro Cop and Couture IMO. I realize head to heads don't always determine who the better fighter is but Cro Cop has to be over him for the last fight alone. Complete ass kicking, second biggest I've seen between two top fighters after Fedor-Coleman. Speaking of, Coleman could have a fair shot at the top 5 as well IMO. More for his influence and his comeback than his abilities as a fighter but Barnett is still clearly the better fighter.

    It's hard to find a HW champion who can defend the title more than twice nowadays so Junior definitely has his hands full. Two wins and he's defintiley in the top 5, possibly top 3.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:31 pm

    Heres fightmatrix calculations to who stands where in the Hw history books. They use computerised scoring and im not 100% if someones wins outside their devision count (Ie Couture at Lhw or Sylvia at Shw)

    1 Fedor Emelianenko
    2 Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira
    3 Josh Barnett
    4 Randy Couture
    5 Mirko Filipovic
    6 Tim Sylvia
    7 Frank Mir
    8 Junior dos Santos
    9 Bas Rutten
    10 Cain Velasquez
    11 Mark Coleman
    12 Brock Lesnar
    13 Andrei Arlovski
    14 Fabricio Werdum
    15 Masakatsu Funaki
    16 Alistair Overeem
    17 Semmy Schilt
    18 Royce Gracie
    19 Ken Shamrock
    20 Pedro Rizzo
    21 Igor Vovchanchyn
    22 Mark Hunt
    23 Shane Carwin
    24 Sergei Kharitonov
    25 Kevin Randleman
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:37 pm

    Mryzyz wrote:At HW Fedor would destroy the Shogun that showed up for his last 3 fights. It would be like Hendo-Shogun if Hendo hadn't gassed.

    Have a look at Fedor's last 5 performances before you say that. Shogun's last 3 performances have been poor by HIS standards, still better than 90% of any fighter in the LHW or HW division. He got his ass kicked by the best LHW in the world, a top 5 P4P fighter and possibly a future GOAT in the worst peformance of his career, KOed a former LHW champion in less than 2 minutes and lost to one of the greatest of all time in an epic fight after a poor start. Compare that to Fedor who has been finished 3 times in 5 fights, twice in the first round. Aside from that he decisioned a 41 year old who is years past his best and KOed a kid who wasn't even close to being ready for a fight against the GOAT.

    At this stage with both fighters not at their best and facing uncertain futures, it would be an even fight.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Mon Mar 12, 2012 8:55 pm

    Who's Couture beaten at HW that's worth talking about? Sylvia?
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:06 pm

    I don't really like the way fightmatrix ranks fighters with there computerised scoring, although it's still intresting to see.

    Couture has good wins at HW over Sylvia, Gonzaga, Rizzo (2x) Randleman and Smith. I realize some of those fighters don't look very impressive but at the time they were beasts.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Mon Mar 12, 2012 9:57 pm

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Mryzyz wrote:At HW Fedor would destroy the Shogun that showed up for his last 3 fights. It would be like Hendo-Shogun if Hendo hadn't gassed.

    Have a look at Fedor's last 5 performances before you say that. Shogun's last 3 performances have been poor by HIS standards, still better than 90% of any fighter in the LHW or HW division. He got his ass kicked by the best LHW in the world, a top 5 P4P fighter and possibly a future GOAT in the worst peformance of his career, KOed a former LHW champion in less than 2 minutes and lost to one of the greatest of all time in an epic fight after a poor start. Compare that to Fedor who has been finished 3 times in 5 fights, twice in the first round. Aside from that he decisioned a 41 year old who is years past his best and KOed a kid who wasn't even close to being ready for a fight against the GOAT.

    At this stage with both fighters not at their best and facing uncertain futures, it would be an even fight.

    Hang on, Shogun's last 3?? Thought he looked good vs Forrest myself.

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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Mon Mar 12, 2012 10:01 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Mryzyz wrote:At HW Fedor would destroy the Shogun that showed up for his last 3 fights. It would be like Hendo-Shogun if Hendo hadn't gassed.

    Have a look at Fedor's last 5 performances before you say that. Shogun's last 3 performances have been poor by HIS standards, still better than 90% of any fighter in the LHW or HW division. He got his ass kicked by the best LHW in the world, a top 5 P4P fighter and possibly a future GOAT in the worst peformance of his career, KOed a former LHW champion in less than 2 minutes and lost to one of the greatest of all time in an epic fight after a poor start. Compare that to Fedor who has been finished 3 times in 5 fights, twice in the first round. Aside from that he decisioned a 41 year old who is years past his best and KOed a kid who wasn't even close to being ready for a fight against the GOAT.

    At this stage with both fighters not at their best and facing uncertain futures, it would be an even fight.

    Hang on, Shogun's last 3?? Thought he looked good vs Forrest myself.


    Granted he looked good, but forrest looked like complete shit in that fight, so it was hard to say just how well Shogun had responded to his previous loss.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Tue Mar 13, 2012 12:13 am

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Cro Cop beat Barnett 3 times and he absolutely destroyed him in the last one as well. I don't think you can have Barnett over Cro Cop at all especially since Cro Cop has fought and beaten better opponents. Not to mention Barnett has been caught roiding 3 times while Cro Cop fought larger opponents for large parts of his career. Barnett's not close to Cro Cop.

    yeh but the first fight was a freak injury, the second fight was a Barnett coming off a year layoff from that injury, and the third fight he had just had a war with Nogueira going into it. CroCop is a stylistic nightmare for him as well, and the only guy to beat him decidedly. Barnett lost to Rizzo but won the rematch many years later, and was extremely competitive with Nog in both their fights and went 1-1. He clearly doesnt have the stain of all these losses against subpar guys that CroCop does.

    Barnett's best wins are probably Severn, Schiltx2, Randy, Aleks, Hunt, Nog, Monson, Rizzo and Kharitonov, so he does have good names on his resume

    Randy lost a third of his fights at HW so for me I put CroCop and Barnett above him

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