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    A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

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    p4pnumber_1
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:53 am

    Im sorry Anfield, but your clear hatred for Jones (why by the way) is clearly affecting your call on his talent. I can say im not the biggest GSP fan, but I cannot for one second disregard his talent.

    "Prime CroCop and Nog were far better than Jones." I disagree. I believe Jones has already surpassed both of the achievements at this stage in his career, and there will be more to come.

    "Jones fights guys much smaller than him and uses it to his advantage." What is he supposed to do? Say fuck it i've a big reach advantage, i refuse to fight at LHW cause im bigger? This sport is all about gaining as much advantages over your opponents.

    "Jones is nowhere near as well rounded as Fedor," Disagree. Jones has a better all round mma game than Fedor.

    "makes people wince with knees and kicks, not punches" You say this like it's a bad thing. Knees and kicks are just as important in mma as punches are.

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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:59 am

    His accomplishments? Who cares. AS A FIGHTER, he's not as good as prime CroCop or Prime Nog and had he fought them at the points in their careers that Fedor fought them, he'd have been head kicked into oblivion, or tapped.

    Fedor has better stand-up, more power, far better grappling, and much better submissions than Jones. It's not even close. Fedor is more rounded and a lot more skilled.

    He should be a man, stop tailoring his diet so that he never puts on weight, stop being a bitch and avoiding weights and go fight in his own division.

    Jones has talent. But not near the level the UFC hype machine leads people to believe. And beating up people a weight class below him proves little. If GSP cut to 155 like his transfer said he could and went around destroying everyone, would anyone be impressed? No they would not.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:04 am

    Anfields5thKing wrote:His accomplishments? Who cares. AS A FIGHTER, he's not as good as prime CroCop or Prime Nog and had he fought them at the points in their careers that Fedor fought them, he'd have been head kicked into oblivion, or tapped.

    Fedor has better stand-up, more power, far better grappling, and much better submissions than Jones. It's not even close. Fedor is more rounded and a lot more skilled.

    He should be a man, stop tailoring his diet so that he never puts on weight, stop being a bitch and avoiding weights and go fight in his own division.

    Jones has talent. But not near the level the UFC hype machine leads people to believe. And beating up people a weight class below him proves little. If GSP cut to 155 like his transfer said he could and went around destroying everyone, would anyone be impressed? No they would not.

    "His accomplishments? Who cares. " Pretty sure the aim of the game is to accomplish glory? If no one cared about accomplishments then what would be the point.

    I disagree with this whole weight argument. I feel if someone makes a weight comfortably then what is the problem? I could understand your viewpoint if he was missing weight every fight and tearing the arse out of it...but how many times has he missed weight?
    Now what about your buddy Alves? He's missed weight twice!!
    "stop tailoring his diet so that he never puts on weight, stop being a bitch and avoiding weights and go fight in his own division." This could be argued that this is exactly what Alves does.

    Why do you dislike Jones so much anyway mate?
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Mar 09, 2012 1:12 am

    If CroCop and Nog had fought at LHW (bought could have made it if they did what Jones did from the outset) they would have walked through the division at any point.

    Alves has the frame of a LW. He's just an idiot who keeps lifted weights and eating too much. Alves is no bigger than the rest of the WW division. When he was fighting GSP he went ridiculous with the muscle, but now, he's smaller than a lot of others. Frame wise, he's about the same size as Ben Henderson, possibly slightly smaller. People look at the muscle and forget his height and reach.

    His arrogance, his disrespect towards people, his ducking of Rashad on two occasions, faking injuries and then having miracle recoveries once Rashad was unavailable to fight, and of course, the UFC hype machine and the garbage they try and force down people's throats. I actually liked Jones up until the Hamill fight.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Fri Mar 09, 2012 12:19 pm

    Don't mean to piss on Jones's Parade but his 2 of his Big wins were against 2 men who are on a big downside slope in their careers Machida in his last 4 has gone 1-3 and the regression of Rampage has been sad to see in Fedor's wins over Cro Cop, Nog & Coleman (1st fight) were on the upside of their careers and even Arlovski was on tear at the time.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 3:56 pm

    We'll have to agree to disagree on the fedor - Bigfoot fight.


    Fedor beat the number 2 and 3 HW's of all time?

    You mean the number 2 and 3 HW's of the sport at a time the sport was still in it's infancy.
    The sport has moved on,the fighters have improved and the field of talent is 20 times bigger and more talented in todays game.

    Fedor,Nog and Cro-cop need applauding for laying down the foundations and setting the standards for todays fighters,but just like in every sport,new atheletes take the torch and carry it further untill the next gen takes it off them.

    Like going on an undefeated run in the UFC today is far more impressive than doing it in Pride.
    A because the talent is alot better and theres far more of them and B because with each win in the UFC the talent you face next is equal or better than the fight before,where as in Pride you can go from fighting Nog to a fujita or a Cro-cop to a Zuluzinho.
    There's no gimme matches thrown in todays game.

    Nog and Cro-cop of then would still struggle against todays top HW's.

    Age can be argued as part of why they don't look like the dominant beasts they once did,but to be fair cro-cop was only 31 and 7 months and another win,coming off his crowning achievement in the game before Gonzaga and Kongo beat him and Nog was only 31 and on a 3 fight win streak over timmeh,herring and Barnett when Mir beat him.

    31 is not that old in for a HW MMA fighter and in Nogs case,i think it can be said that his game in the UFC actually showed improvements since his Pride days,his striking is alot better.


    It's just a case of the talent has improved and alot have eclipsed the greats of yesteryear,Just like Bob Fitzsimmons wouldn't of beat Ali or Ali wouldn't of beat Lennox,Roger Bannister isn't any longer the greatest ever mile runner,high school students are now breaking the 4 minute mile.

    The argument of jones fighting smaller guys is laughable,especially when praising cro-cop as the 3rd best HW of all time,Cro-cop won his GP beating 3 MW's,Jones might be bigger than alot of his opponents,but at least he fights guys in his weight class,and not guys that should be two wieght classes below him.
    The only fighters that cro-cop beat who were bigger than him were Barnett,alex,herring,waterman,Al Turk and Hong man Chio,with the 3 wins over barnett,that's 8 out of his 40 fights,Clearly the #3 HW of all time Suspect

    Even fedor and Nog have got big lists of smaller guys on their records.

    Cowboy,I don't see how the 29 year old,former champ and current top 5 LHW,Shogun can be called on the downside of his career,yet a 40 year old coleman wasn't.
    Coleman had not long come out of retirement when he fought fedor.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 4:54 pm

    There really shouldnt a comparison between two fighters 10 years apart.

    Fedor is 10 years Jones senior and has an long established track record to prove his greatness. Jones is kicking ass and taking names now but its hard to go fo years doing that. A few big KO losses and his chin could go... he could stop making the weigth limit and find he cant cope with Hw.

    For now Jones is on track to become one of the greats but he has had a 6 fight winning spree.

    He would need 21 more wins to equal Fedor's 27 fight streak.

    No excuses about who was past their prime, Machida was a great win, Shogun too (50% or Injured) whateve the arguement no one has handled Shogun like that before or since.

    Rampage is a shit win mate, I think we all know he is years removed from his prime. Bader never was that good, top 10ish but still not a win to compare to Coleman.

    When Fedor was Jones age he was in the middle of that amazing run, Lets not discredit wins, Fedor fought a few cans during his run though so IMO Jones doesnt need 21 wins to even him because the competition would be much better in UFC.

    Lets wait till he beats Evans and Hendo that would give him 4 good career wins (5 if you count Rampage) after he gets that lets talk about him being better than Fedor but before then is hugely jumping the gun.

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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Fri Mar 09, 2012 5:40 pm

    I think Machida was slipping before the Jones fight got a gift against Shogun, got KTFO in the rematch, looked terrible against Rampage until Round 3 when he finally came to life and beat Couture. I agree on Shogun great win maybe Shogun didn't look in great shape after watching the fight reluctantly again It was obvious late Big knee Jones landed was key to that win Shogun never recovered.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:47 pm

    Payne..age is just one of many factors when you are talking about the inevitable decline of fighters.

    Shogun is blatently on the downslide of his career, you dont have to look at the stats just open your eyes, he fights like he is underwater.
    moving extremely sluggishly and with no air in his lungs.

    FYI Crocop was on the downslide of his career when he won the GP. What i mean is that Crocop is one of those fighters who relied on his freak athleticism, he wasnt as explosive in 2006 as he was in 2000 or 2003 even.
    he was 60 or more pro fights into his career when he joined the UFC.


    is Mir one of the current crop or not? because he almost just got steamrolled by Nogueira. Look at Josh Barnett..10 years removed from his UFC championship and still one of the absolute best in the world.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:54 pm

    I think CroCop was probably on steroids during PRIDE.

    Nog's striking isnt better. His power has improved but his footwork and overall speed has greatly decreased. He was a better boxer in PRIDE and did really well standing vs Kharitonov, who of course has great credentials for an MMA fighter in boxing.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Once Mohawked Pete on Fri Mar 09, 2012 6:57 pm

    Just out of curiosity Payne, who would you have as No2 and No3 HWs of alltime? For me Nog has to be a shoo-in for No2, and I would probably say CroCop cannot be too far off No3.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:01 pm

    i'm in no way trying to discredit fedor,the guys a legend and will always be highly thought of by me,He once was,by a distance the best in the world,but to argue my point,I have to be critical of fedor and judge him on facts and not just keep him up on this mystical pedestal that many can't get over.

    Bader would beat a prime Coleman IMO

    Bigger,better wrestler,better stand up,more Athletic and far more rounded a fighter,a more advanced student of the game,Coleman 3.0.

    Coleman was a big win because he was one of the pioneers of the sport,a one dimensional wrestler.When he fought Fedor,he was 40 and had just came out of retirement.
    I find that hard to judge how good fedor is when trying to make a case that he could easily beat todays top fighters,when i'd back all of the current top 10 LHW's to beat a prime coleman never mind the HW's.

    Do you hold Hughes victory of Royce Gracie as one of Hughes greatest wins?

    as I said before,Jones has got a long way to go to match Fedors achievements,I'd never argue any different,what I do think though is that if Fedor fought Jones today,Fedor loses.
    I also think Jones's wins against top talent matches or eclipses fedors biggest wins and a main part of my argument for that is,I believe the fighters of today are far better than they were 7-9 years ago and Jones is not only walking through them,he's doing it to the current best in the world back to back.

    Travis fulton,Igor,Torres,Horn all have huge win streaks aswell,but so what,when you look at alot of the fighters they beat to get them,for me it shouldn't be judged on the length of the streak,it's the level of competition you get it against
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:15 pm

    I wouldn't have cro-cop #3,I think JDS has already got a more impressive record over HW's than Cro-cop has.


    I would have Fedor #1 and Nog #2 though

    Even though Cro-cop beat barnett,I think he should go down as a more successful HW fighter,as his record against good fighter eclipse's cro-cops also.

    Oh and i'm not saying Randy should be,Love the guy,but I wouldn't put him in the top 3,no way,but he still would of kicked cro-cops arse with no troubles cheers
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:20 pm

    uly wrote:I think CroCop was probably on steroids during PRIDE.

    Nog's striking isnt better. His power has improved but his footwork and overall speed has greatly decreased. He was a better boxer in PRIDE and did really well standing vs Kharitonov, who of course has great credentials for an MMA fighter in boxing.

    I can't agree with that,well the steriod bit I can,but hey ho,it was legal there so no rules broken,Nogs striking has improved alot over the years,I'd say his chin might not be what it once was because if it wasn't for his granite chin back in the day,Nog would of lost many stand up battles due to his sloppy striking.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:25 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:I wouldn't have cro-cop #3,I think JDS has already got a more impressive record over HW's than Cro-cop has.


    I would have Fedor #1 and Nog #2 though

    Even though Cro-cop beat barnett,I think he should go down as a more successful HW fighter,as his record against good fighter eclipse's cro-cops also.

    Oh and i'm not saying Randy should be,Love the guy,but I wouldn't put him in the top 3,no way,but he still would of kicked cro-cops arse with no troubles cheers


    I agree with most of your argument, but cant agree with this. CroCop is clear no.3, arguably number 2. We've had many squabbles in the past about your hate for CC, so it's no surprise you don't rank him as highly as his achievement deserve.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:32 pm

    Yeah,I've never been shy in showing my dislike towards cro-cop,but will you please list for me Cro-cops best wins against top HW's,no MW's or LHW's fighting above their weights,just top HW's,because don't forget there's no credit awarded for fighting people smaller than you.

    So we have barnett and err,err,sorry you'll have to fill in the errs for me
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:38 pm

    Heath Herring, Kevin Randleman and Igor Vovchanchyn were top heavies. Aleks Emelianenko wasn't a shabby win, Wanderlei outweighed him. Why is so much stock put in size? It's not a pivotal factor in stand up fights which is what Mirko's fights mostly are
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Fri Mar 09, 2012 7:51 pm

    Sorry,I'm just reacting to the way this topic started,it's such a sin for jones,yet anfield names cro-cop in the next sentence as the #3 greatest HW ever,when he's a fighter that has actual fought more guys that are smaller than him than bigger.

    That's another thing that bugs me about cro-cop fans,is I've also heard many a time,them also use the"well Cro-cop was really a LHW fighting at HW"
    They might of had a point if he was actually fighting guys bigger than himself.

    Herrings been ripped apart many a times on here as being nothing but a journey man,especially when used in any brock discussion,Randleman was a LHW with a 14-7 record,who had just lost his last two fights going into the cro-cop fight,Igor was 5'8 and had lost a good few fights before he met cro-cop and Alex had potential but did absolutely nothing with it,plus it was only his 4th pro fight,which ever way you look at it,if these are the best of his career wins,then in no way is he the #3 HW of all time.

    oh and As for wandi,it doesn't matter what he weighed in for that fight,the guy never is or never has been a HW
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:29 am

    payneNglory1 wrote:

    Bader would beat a prime Coleman IMO


    that's utterly ridiculous. Firstly, he's not nearly as big as Coleman was in Pride. Secondly Coleman was a much better wrestler than Bader is.

    It's not your only ridiculous statement though. JDS has done more than CroCop? What shite.

    And the claim that CroCop fought more guys that were smaller than him than guys that were bigger than him is just stupid. CroCop fought at a weight class above the one he should have been at. At most he fought about 6 guys that were smaller than him
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:42 am

    payneNglory1 wrote:

    oh and As for wandi,it doesn't matter what he weighed in for that fight,the guy never is or never has been a HW

    This is true. Like CroCop and Fedor, Wanderlei had balls and didn't go around looking to fight guys much smaller than him.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Mar 10, 2012 12:45 am

    payneNglory1 wrote:Sorry,I'm just reacting to the way this topic started,it's such a sin for jones,yet anfield names cro-cop in the next sentence as the #3 greatest HW ever,when he's a fighter that has actual fought more guys that are smaller than him than bigger.

    That's another thing that bugs me about cro-cop fans,is I've also heard many a time,them also use the"well Cro-cop was really a LHW fighting at HW"
    They might of had a point if he was actually fighting guys bigger than himself.

    Herrings been ripped apart many a times on here as being nothing but a journey man,especially when used in any brock discussion,Randleman was a LHW with a 14-7 record,who had just lost his last two fights going into the cro-cop fight,Igor was 5'8 and had lost a good few fights before he met cro-cop and Alex had potential but did absolutely nothing with it,plus it was only his 4th pro fight,which ever way you look at it,if these are the best of his career wins,then in no way is he the #3 HW of all time.

    oh and As for wandi,it doesn't matter what he weighed in for that fight,the guy never is or never has been a HW

    Herring was Top 10 when he fought Mirko, Randleman won the ufc HEAVYWEIGHT title. Aleks was the top HW prospect in the sport when he met CroCops foot.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:14 am

    prime coleman beats Bader.

    assuming its at heavyweight and headbutts and shoes are allowed.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  uly on Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:36 pm

    Coleman had way better wrestling credentials than Bader
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:52 pm

    Coleman was an Olympic wrestler and won an NCAA championship. Claiming Bader is a better wrestler than him would be like claiming Jon Jones is a better striker than Anderson Silva. Although no doubt Payne will try and claim that at some point.

    Prime Coleman would have destroyed Bader.
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    Re: A new year a new Fedor in the UFC thread! Interview inside

    Post  payneNglory1 on Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:18 pm

    Coleman had the better amateur wrestling credentials,but I still say Bader easily beats a prime Coleman,like I said,all of todays current top 10 LHW's would beat a prime Coleman.


    JDS's best wins against HW's compared to Cro-cops best HW wins

    Cain ---- Barnett
    Werdum -- Coleman
    Cro-cop - Herring
    Carwin -- Igor
    Nelson -- Randelman
    Gonzaga - Alex
    Struve -- Fujita
    Yvel -- Barry


    I was obviously exaggerating when saying that cro -cop has fought more smaller guys in his career,but still there's alot of them and certainly more than 6.
    These were all smaller than cro-cop

    Takada
    Wandi x2
    Sakuraba
    Randleman x2
    Kanehara
    Oyama
    Coleman
    Minowa
    Yoshida
    Mizuno
    Perosh

    Igor

    14/40 fights

    That's about a third of his total fights where Cro-cop has fought guys smaller than himself.

    It would be a smaller list if you do one on the fighters he's fought that are bigger than him,especially if you take out his UFC fights,you know when he was still actually regarded as one of the best HW's in the world.




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