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    thoughts on condit v diaz

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    p4pnumber_1
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:41 pm

    efils_god wrote:He yguys, been snowed in all weekend, and desperate to watch the fights back. Anyone got a decent site to see them at?

    cheers

    http://fightnext.com/ that should do the job mate.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:42 pm

    Try ironforgesiron, MMA-Core or MMA Linker.
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    Once Mohawked Pete
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Once Mohawked Pete on Mon Feb 06, 2012 8:05 pm

    The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Personally I think the backlash from both this and the Sonnen- Bisping fight have a lot to do with the fan bases of the respective fighters.

    Had Bisping put on that performance and came that close to winning against any other top contender he would've garnered a lot of praise IMO, but as it was against everyone's favourite Chael Sonnen wasn't the case. Same with Condit, had he put on that performance against a contender like Fitch or someone with a lesser fan base to Diaz, people would be raving about him and rightfully so.

    Not sure I agree. Bisping put in probably his best performance, but was still a fair bit short of beating a genuine contender (and one that I dislike, by the way), Bisping has received a lot more respect on these pages following his loss, I don't know what more praise you expect for someone, that has failed in his biggest tests?

    With regards to Condit and Diaz, I don't think that there are many, who feel that Diaz was completely robbed, just a few that believe the decision was close, and maybe should have gone the other way. I cannot stand Diaz as a 'personality', however, he holds the best chance (IMO) of beating GSP, and regardless of this loss, his record bears close scrutiny. For me, as I've said previously, I much prefer fighters that actively look for a win, rather than try and avoid defeat.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:42 am

    sunthunder wrote:49-46 Condit and fairly clear at that.

    I don't see why a rematch would be any different. Diaz doesn't have the versatility to change his game. The only thing he could have done was back off and make Condit come after him, but even when they were in the middle of the cage Condit won the exchanges.

    Won the exchanges? Nonsense. Diaz was the only one landing meaningful shots.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:42 am

    Sheldan wrote:
    p4pnumber_1 wrote:This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.

    I could just probably find the same amount of pro's who thought Condit won.


    No you couldn't. You found a handle of fighterss, including a couple of Jackson fighters, and some of the worst journalists in MMA. p4p only listed a fraction of the fighters that tweeted that they thought Diaz won.


    Last edited by Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:45 am

    payneNglory1 wrote:I understand the feeling of being let down,I was looking forward to seeing Diaz,watching Diaz in full fight mode is a thing of beauty and watching Carlos brutally knock so many people out in the past,this was set up as a war,but these are Pro's (well one of them definitely is)not backyard brawlers and just like many greats in boxing have made a succesful career with,Condit came in with a solid gameplan and used movement and selective striking to out smart and win himself a title,while diaz had no plan going in,except hoping his opponent would stand in front of him and trade,not only that but he also didn't have the know how to change and adapt his style as the fight went on.

    Condit out landed Diaz with power shots to the head and legs,so this,he won by running and little leg kicks is a load of crap.

    Condit landed 25% more power shots to the head in that fight than Diaz,aswell as landing 60 odd more leg shots than Diaz,and the clean shots Condit landed were to a planted fighter moving forward,were as diaz's were not as clean,as condit was either backing off or circling out.

    Plus Condit is known for having one punch knock out,where as Diaz isn't,he relys on landing his big combos and breaking people down to get the stoppage,something Condit smartly never let him do.

    Simply IMO,Diaz was out worked and out smarted and the only round Diaz won was round 2 for me.

    He did not outland him in power shots. He outlanded him in significant strikes. Significant strikes are anything that aren't jabs. Doesn't matter how much power they have in them.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:48 am

    Condit best get training for his next marathon. Rematch is on.

    http://mmaweekly.com/ufc-pres-dana-white-says-condit-vs-diaz-2-set
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    sunthunder
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  sunthunder on Wed Feb 08, 2012 11:56 am

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    Sheldan wrote:
    p4pnumber_1 wrote:This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.

    I could just probably find the same amount of pro's who thought Condit won.


    No you couldn't. You found a handle of fighterss, including a couple of Jackson fighters, and some of the worst journaonly listed a fraction of the fighters that tweeted that they thought Diaz won.lists in MMA. p4p

    Got a link to any others? I've not seen any.

    Plus basically all MMA pbp sites had it for Condit.


    50-45 Condit
    UFC 143 Play-by-Play: Nick Diaz vs. Carlos Condit | MMAWeekly.com

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143 play by play and live results | MMAjunkie.com

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143 Results and Live Play-by-Play for "Diaz vs. Condit" - MMAFrenzy.com

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143 results and LIVE fight coverage for 'Diaz vs Condit' on Feb. 4 in Las Vegas - MMAmania.com

    48-47 Condit
    UFC 143 Live Play-By-Play - MMA Fighting

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143: Diaz Vs. Condit - Live Results And Play-By-Play For PPV Main Card - Bloody Elbow

    48-47 Condit x2, 48-47 Diaz
    UFC 143: ‘Diaz vs. Condit’ Results and Play-by-Play - Sherdog
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  payneNglory1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:41 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    payneNglory1 wrote:I understand the feeling of being let down,I was looking forward to seeing Diaz,watching Diaz in full fight mode is a thing of beauty and watching Carlos brutally knock so many people out in the past,this was set up as a war,but these are Pro's (well one of them definitely is)not backyard brawlers and just like many greats in boxing have made a succesful career with,Condit came in with a solid gameplan and used movement and selective striking to out smart and win himself a title,while diaz had no plan going in,except hoping his opponent would stand in front of him and trade,not only that but he also didn't have the know how to change and adapt his style as the fight went on.

    Condit out landed Diaz with power shots to the head and legs,so this,he won by running and little leg kicks is a load of crap.

    Condit landed 25% more power shots to the head in that fight than Diaz,aswell as landing 60 odd more leg shots than Diaz,and the clean shots Condit landed were to a planted fighter moving forward,were as diaz's were not as clean,as condit was either backing off or circling out.

    Plus Condit is known for having one punch knock out,where as Diaz isn't,he relys on landing his big combos and breaking people down to get the stoppage,something Condit smartly never let him do.

    Simply IMO,Diaz was out worked and out smarted and the only round Diaz won was round 2 for me.

    He did not outland him in power shots. He outlanded him in significant strikes. Significant strikes are anything that aren't jabs. Doesn't matter how much power they have in them.

    Fair enough,but I bet you can't find 4 shots that Diaz landed on Condit that were better than these.







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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:15 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    payneNglory1 wrote:I understand the feeling of being let down,I was looking forward to seeing Diaz,watching Diaz in full fight mode is a thing of beauty and watching Carlos brutally knock so many people out in the past,this was set up as a war,but these are Pro's (well one of them definitely is)not backyard brawlers and just like many greats in boxing have made a succesful career with,Condit came in with a solid gameplan and used movement and selective striking to out smart and win himself a title,while diaz had no plan going in,except hoping his opponent would stand in front of him and trade,not only that but he also didn't have the know how to change and adapt his style as the fight went on.

    Condit out landed Diaz with power shots to the head and legs,so this,he won by running and little leg kicks is a load of crap.

    Condit landed 25% more power shots to the head in that fight than Diaz,aswell as landing 60 odd more leg shots than Diaz,and the clean shots Condit landed were to a planted fighter moving forward,were as diaz's were not as clean,as condit was either backing off or circling out.

    Plus Condit is known for having one punch knock out,where as Diaz isn't,he relys on landing his big combos and breaking people down to get the stoppage,something Condit smartly never let him do.

    Simply IMO,Diaz was out worked and out smarted and the only round Diaz won was round 2 for me.

    He did not outland him in power shots. He outlanded him in significant strikes. Significant strikes are anything that aren't jabs. Doesn't matter how much power they have in them.

    Fair enough,but I bet you can't find 4 shots that Diaz landed on Condit that were better than these.








    Laughing Laughing

    I really wish I was more clued up about how to find and post gifs because none of those shots bothered Nick. There was shots that Condit looked far more hurt by... Maby a fellow Diaz fan knows how to find and post Gifs but they werent great shots at all by Condit. None of them stopped Diaz coming forward and the head kicks landed with the foot ie glancing blows
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    Once Mohawked Pete
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Once Mohawked Pete on Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:47 pm

    I can understand, how some think that Condit edged a close fight, not that I agree, but the one thing that was clear, was that, round by round, it was close. To state that Condit outstruck Diaz is one thing, but if these gifs are the best that you can come up with Payne, I'm not sure that it's helping your cause mate. Three of the four gifs shown, looked more of an irritation than anything substantial, the third gif, did momentarily, stop Diaz, but again, if these are the best that can be shown.........Sorry Ben, I wish I did know more about posting gifs.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  payneNglory1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:08 pm

    all I'm saying is i don't think anyone will be able to find gifs or videos showing diaz landing more,better,cleaner shots on condit,because it just didn't happen IMO.

    Yet people are trying to make out that even though Condit landed more shots,Diaz landed the more meaningful ones and because he was moving forward,that was enough for him to win the fight.

    He didn't and that shouldn't.

    Octagon control is a messed up scoring criteria,we've all mentioned that in the past,so maybe it could be argued in Diaz's favour,but I personally think he lost on that as well,but like I say,this is depending on peoples understanding of that flimsy scoring criteria.

    Surely a stronger case can be made,that Condit was the one who should take Octagon controll as he was the one dictating where and when the exchanges happened,he used the Octagon to his advantage,by using the space inside it,where as diaz just moved forward and had absolutely no control on the fight,he couldn't trap or cut off any angles to stop Condit moving in and out of the spaces he wanted.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Once Mohawked Pete on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:17 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:all I'm saying is i don't think anyone will be able to find gifs or videos showing diaz landing more,better,cleaner shots on condit,because it just didn't happen IMO.

    Yet people are trying to make out that even though Condit landed more shots,Diaz landed the more meaningful ones and because he was moving forward,that was enough for him to win the fight.

    He didn't and that shouldn't.

    Octagon control is a messed up scoring criteria,we've all mentioned that in the past,so maybe it could be argued in Diaz's favour,but I personally think he lost on that as well,but like I say,this is depending on peoples understanding of that flimsy scoring criteria.

    Surely a stronger case can be made,that Condit was the one who should take Octagon controll as he was the one dictating where and when the exchanges happened,he used the Octagon to his advantage,by using the space inside it,where as diaz just moved forward and had absolutely no control on the fight,he couldn't trap or cut off any angles to stop Condit moving in and out of the spaces he wanted.

    Not certain that you could argue Condit controlling where the fight took place mate, Diaz was pushing the pace throughout the fight, and had Condit on the back foot throughout. I know that, with regards to cleaner striking, it's pretty much a judgement call, I appreciate that you saw it different to myself, IMO, had this fight been allowed to go to the finish, as in an unlimited amount of rounds, until either a TKO/KO/Ref Stoppage/Sub, then my money would have been on Diaz all day, I appreciate that it wasn't, and that Condit made (in the eyes of the judges) successful use of the current scoring system, but I know where my money's going, with regards to a rematch. Out of curiosity, do you see a rematch going the same way? Would be interested to see who would back who.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  payneNglory1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:29 pm

    There's no arguing that Condit landed more strikes than he took is there.
    The reason that happened was because condit used and controlled the available space in the Octagon to do that.

    Just walking forward in a straight line,and not being able to cut off your opponent,while taking more shots than you are landing,for me is not controlling the Octagon.

    Just like I thought the Sanchez decision against kampman was a bullshit decision,just because you are moving forward should mean absolutely sweet FA if your not doing anything with it.

    I was backing Diaz this time around and I still think diaz is the better fighter.

    But Condit to my surprise,was the smarter fighter and stuck to a winning plan and IMO,thoroughly deserved to win that fight on that performance.

    In a rematch after watching that,I think it would be up to Diaz to make drastic changes,otherwise i could see it going exactly the same way.
    I think Diaz has the skills to do it,I'm just not so sure that in a fight he has the smarts.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  payneNglory1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 7:49 pm

    Here to show no bias,here's shit loads of Gifs from all 5 rounds of the fight.
    And these are mainly all the signifcant shots and not all of Carlos's leg kicks.












































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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  2brutal on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:07 pm

    i agree with payne 100% re the more meaningful strikes
    diaz wasnt that bothered by them though and that shows how tough he is
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:40 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    Sheldan wrote:
    p4pnumber_1 wrote:This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.

    I could just probably find the same amount of pro's who thought Condit won.


    No you couldn't. You found a handle of fighterss, including a couple of Jackson fighters, and some of the worst journalists in MMA. p4p only listed a fraction of the fighters that tweeted that they thought Diaz won.

    Well it wasn't me who found that list of fighters so I don't know why you aimed that at me.

    Apparently there is now some doubt now that the rematch will go ahead, only 12 hours after it was announced it was happening, the drama continues.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Mryzyz on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:45 pm

    Condit should defend his title before GSP returns anyway, regardless of wether it's against Diaz or not.

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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  payneNglory1 on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:47 pm

    @frontrowbrian

    "*BREAKING NEWS* Carlos Condit vs. Nick Diaz II will NOT happen. An issue arose from Nick's camp last night. Nick will NOT be able to compete"


    @CesarGracieBJJ

    We greatly appreciate our fan support. Everything will be out soon.
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    Sheldan
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:49 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:@frontrowbrian

    "*BREAKING NEWS* Carlos Condit vs. Nick Diaz II will NOT happen. An issue arose from Nick's camp last night. Nick will NOT be able to compete"


    @CesarGracieBJJ

    We greatly appreciate our fan support. Everything will be out soon.

    Well there is the answer to what I wrote 10 minutes ago haha. I wanted the rematch, shame it's not happening.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:52 pm

    sunthunder wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    Sheldan wrote:
    p4pnumber_1 wrote:This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.

    I could just probably find the same amount of pro's who thought Condit won.


    No you couldn't. You found a handle of fighterss, including a couple of Jackson fighters, and some of the worst journaonly listed a fraction of the fighters that tweeted that they thought Diaz won.lists in MMA. p4p

    Got a link to any others? I've not seen any.

    Plus basically all MMA pbp sites had it for Condit.


    50-45 Condit
    UFC 143 Play-by-Play: Nick Diaz vs. Carlos Condit | MMAWeekly.com

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143 play by play and live results | MMAjunkie.com

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143 Results and Live Play-by-Play for "Diaz vs. Condit" - MMAFrenzy.com

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143 results and LIVE fight coverage for 'Diaz vs Condit' on Feb. 4 in Las Vegas - MMAmania.com

    48-47 Condit
    UFC 143 Live Play-By-Play - MMA Fighting

    49-46 Condit
    UFC 143: Diaz Vs. Condit - Live Results And Play-By-Play For PPV Main Card - Bloody Elbow

    48-47 Condit x2, 48-47 Diaz
    UFC 143: ‘Diaz vs. Condit’ Results and Play-by-Play - Sherdog


    ALL sites.

    And you name seven.

    Good lad yourself.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:53 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:all I'm saying is i don't think anyone will be able to find gifs or videos showing diaz landing more,better,cleaner shots on condit,because it just didn't happen IMO.

    Yet people are trying to make out that even though Condit landed more shots,Diaz landed the more meaningful ones and because he was moving forward,that was enough for him to win the fight.

    He didn't and that shouldn't.

    Octagon control is a messed up scoring criteria,we've all mentioned that in the past,so maybe it could be argued in Diaz's favour,but I personally think he lost on that as well,but like I say,this is depending on peoples understanding of that flimsy scoring criteria.

    Surely a stronger case can be made,that Condit was the one who should take Octagon controll as he was the one dictating where and when the exchanges happened,he used the Octagon to his advantage,by using the space inside it,where as diaz just moved forward and had absolutely no control on the fight,he couldn't trap or cut off any angles to stop Condit moving in and out of the spaces he wanted.

    Yeah, those four powderpuff shots are real fight enders aren't they??
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:55 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:Here to show no bias,here's shit loads of Gifs from all 5 rounds of the fight.
    And these are mainly all the signifcant shots and not all of Carlos's leg kicks.


    Those GIFS have two things in common.

    1) Diaz lands the harder shots in all of them.

    2) Condit runs in all of them.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:17 pm

    Apparently the reason the fight isn't happening at the moment is that Diaz wants better terms, now this is just rumours but if it is true than this guy is unbelievable. He's on one of the highest base contracts in the UFC with him getting $200,000 just for showing up to fight, he gets offered a rematch with Carlos Condit which many people may argue wasn't deserved, and now he is apparently demanding better terms!
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    Once Mohawked Pete
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Once Mohawked Pete on Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:26 pm

    Sheldan wrote:Apparently the reason the fight isn't happening at the moment is that Diaz wants better terms, now this is just rumours but if it is true than this guy is unbelievable. He's on one of the highest base contracts in the UFC with him getting $200,000 just for showing up to fight, he gets offered a rematch with Carlos Condit which many people may argue wasn't deserved, and now he is apparently demanding better terms!

    The one thing I will agree with you on, is that Diaz is an utter bell-end.

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