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    thoughts on condit v diaz

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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:42 am

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    Mryzyz
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Mryzyz on Mon Feb 06, 2012 10:18 am

    This rematch was always a strong possibility. It was obvious the UFC wanted Diaz to win because GSP v Diaz sells more than Condit v GSP. So any hint of controversy surrounding a Condit win would lead to a rematch.

    Like when they gave Penn a rematch after his first loss to Edgar. Wether the decision was fair or not is largely irrelevant. The decision was not made on the grounds of sporting fairness, it was purely a business decision. Unfortunately for the UFC Penn lost again and their average buys for LW title fights have gone from 700k to 300k.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Mon Feb 06, 2012 12:07 pm

    Mryzyz wrote:This rematch was always a strong possibility. It was obvious the UFC wanted Diaz to win because GSP v Diaz sells more than Condit v GSP. So any hint of controversy surrounding a Condit win would lead to a rematch.

    Like when they gave Penn a rematch after his first loss to Edgar. Wether the decision was fair or not is largely irrelevant. The decision was not made on the grounds of sporting fairness, it was purely a business decision. Unfortunately for the UFC Penn lost again and their average buys for LW title fights have gone from 700k to 300k.

    Great point there you made It was obvious a rematch would be likely If It was close or Diaz lost I think this was always going to happen especially with GSP targeting a November return. It will be Interesting If the fight plays out the same way will the judges be swayed by what Diaz has said and also what a lot of other fighters have said regarding the defeat.
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 1:57 pm

    Well that one for the history books, the 1st dull Nick Diaz fight. It seems that the majority of MMA fighers who watched it though Diaz should have won.

    I dont get how Diego Sanchez and Lenord Garcia can steam forward and get outstruck clearly but win on moving forward but Diaz doesnt get any credit for being on the front foot.

    I know what Fightmetric shows but it doesnt always tell the whole story. 90% of Condits strikes were just to tag him and get more strikes in. I cant remember him landing much meaningfull. Diaz turned his head with punches quite a bit.

    Rounds 1, 2 and 5 should have gone to Diaz, the striker were nearly even in round 1 but Diaz pushed the pace and landed a lot more meaningfull blows. in round 2 Diaz landed more shots and a higher connection rate as well as again more telling shots. round 5 close in the striking but the grappling won him the round

    3 rounds - 2 Diaz should have won. My mate had it 3-2 to Condit and I can see that as fair enough. Im a big Diaz fan so I was gutted to see Judges not give him credit for doing what other fighters have got credit for. I dont think you are "fighting your fight" by little love taps on the leg and running, Its not even counterpunching, its trying to win a game of tag and avoid fighting.

    Hope Diaz doesnt retire, I really want a rematch.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------

    Werdum showed he is top class with that win over Nelson. Things at Hw are very interesting with Werdum/Cain/Mir and the winner of the SF GP all being so close to a title shot. Look forward to seeing who is matched up with who next.

    I reckon Werdum beats Mir, I dont know about Cain, I dont think he could outstrike Cain and we havnt seen Cain get subbed yet.

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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  2brutal on Mon Feb 06, 2012 2:07 pm

    kos has left aka due to a fall out with the boss states will train wi his old team mates still and use bob cook and dave camirilo
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  sunthunder on Mon Feb 06, 2012 3:10 pm

    49-46 Condit and fairly clear at that.

    I don't see why a rematch would be any different. Diaz doesn't have the versatility to change his game. The only thing he could have done was back off and make Condit come after him, but even when they were in the middle of the cage Condit won the exchanges.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:11 pm

    sunthunder wrote:49-46 Condit and fairly clear at that.

    I don't see why a rematch would be any different. Diaz doesn't have the versatility to change his game. The only thing he could have done was back off and make Condit come after him, but even when they were in the middle of the cage Condit won the exchanges.

    So you gave it to Condit 4 round to 1??

    As long as you were one of the ones unhappy with Garcia and Diego getting wins for moving forward. For me there is a massive double standard over scoring in UFC with these 2 pushing the pace getting them the w (despite landing less) but it didnt apply to Diaz.

    Also what round did you give to Diaz?
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:14 pm

    Has anyone heard all the fighters giving the fight to Diaz? It seems most MMA fighters not linked to either guy are saying they though Diaz won.

    Condit is a bitch, those tactics were every bit as bad as wall and stall or turtlefucking, little tap on the leg with 0 effect = 1 strike scored, Diaz returns a hook to the jaw, turning Condits head and making him Run like Bisping... also = 1 strike scored. That baffled me, those bullshit stats dont tell a whole story because as someone pointed out using the number of strikes landed also means Werdum beat Overeem

    Im sick on fighter taking advantage of loop holes in the scoring or rules.

    Stick any Ww in with Diaz and make them fight to a finish and see who wins.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Mon Feb 06, 2012 4:37 pm

    Why are you using Leonard Garcia's controversial wins as an example when they were clearly complete robberies, when this wasn't anywhere near a robbery, this was just a close fight.

    I scored it 49-46 for Condit, giving Diaz the last round, but it's weird that rounds 2 and 5 are the ones that Diaz debatably won, yet the actual judges that gave 49-46 Condit gave the third round to Diaz scratch That round is pretty much universally accepted as Condits. It really makes you wonder what those judges get up to!

    It's clear you're a Diaz fan, the way you belittle Condits tactics. He was circling away from danger whilst effectively countering, not running away. Kalib Starnes runs away. Also to say the leg kicks weren't affecting Diaz is pretty weird as alot of them were pretty powerful and he clearly slowed.


    I enjoyed the fight personally, I don't consider myself a fan of either so watching it as a neutral I coul appreciate the gameplan Carlos utilised. He was landing some sweet combos and Diaz's taunting of course is always fun to watch. It's clear the Diaz brother's usual 'get in the head of your opponent' tactic never worked with Condit the way it worked for Nate against Cerrone.

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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:40 pm

    People seem to forget that this is a profession to those fighters, Carlos Condit went out there to win the interim welterweight title in order to increase his stock as a UFC fighter, he went out and did that. What would he have achieved if he went out and stood toe to toe with Diaz, a bit of credit from some fans who appreciate the fact he came to fight? Fact of the matter is that if he didn't use those tactics, he probably wouldn't have won.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:52 pm

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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:53 pm

    This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 5:55 pm

    p4pnumber_1 wrote:This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.

    I could just probably find the same amount of pro's who thought Condit won.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:11 pm

    If we wouldn't have had the prospect of GSP VS Diaz, then I doubt most people would have been that bothered with the decision.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:13 pm

    Sheldan wrote:
    p4pnumber_1 wrote:This what your talking about Ben? Seems a lot of the pro fighters had Diaz winning.

    I could just probably find the same amount of pro's who thought Condit won.

    Fair enough, I'm just showing the amount saying it was a robbery is crazy! I personally scored it for Condit so i'm shocked at the amount saying Diaz won.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:23 pm

    I did score it 48-47 for Diaz, but it was very close that 48-47 for Condit wouldn't have bothered me. What annoys me is the lack of respect people give to fighters, we saw it last week with Bisping and now this week with Condit.

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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  thebadgersbits on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:35 pm

    Does condit's tatics count as cage control??

    What bothered me about the fight was that the fireworks we all thought would happen never did.Condit set his stall out to nick a sneaky goal so to speak and done just that bloody annoying for any viewer and glad i never stayed up till twat o clock in the morning !!
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  sunthunder on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:37 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    sunthunder wrote:49-46 Condit and fairly clear at that.

    I don't see why a rematch would be any different. Diaz doesn't have the versatility to change his game. The only thing he could have done was back off and make Condit come after him, but even when they were in the middle of the cage Condit won the exchanges.

    So you gave it to Condit 4 round to 1??

    As long as you were one of the ones unhappy with Garcia and Diego getting wins for moving forward. For me there is a massive double standard over scoring in UFC with these 2 pushing the pace getting them the w (despite landing less) but it didnt apply to Diaz.

    Also what round did you give to Diaz?

    Isn't it common opinion that those decisions for Garcia and Sanchez were off? There shouldn't be a push for a standard of consistantly badly scoring fights. And fights shouldn't be scored in any sort of context with other fights anyway, they should be scored in isolation as entities unto themselves.

    There isn't a UFC judging body. There were likely different judges in all of those fights, and the judges themselves have nothing to do with the UFC.

    My problem with citing fighters and trainers who think Diaz won is that whenever people feel aggrieved about something they are the ones far more likely to run online and complain about it. Anyone who agreed with the decision likely wouldn't feel the same compulsion to come online and state their approval.

    It's the same as if you ever look at drug side effects online. The people suffering side effects are generally more likely to come online and say so, and thus appear over-represented. Anyone not feeling them will generally just carry on their business.

    And anyway, people who agreed with the decision:

    Ben Henderson: "Wow seems to be quite the controversy, I don't get it...I had Condit clearly winning 4 rds...1 guy walked forward the other landed strikes.."

    Jon Anik: "Carlos Condit's championship execution would be lauded in any other pro sport. Diaz is outstanding. That's how you beat him."

    Stephan Bonnar: "All I gotta say is #followingthegameplantoaT . Congrats to the natty born killer!"

    Gareth A. Davies: "ufc 143 @ufc no issue with the winner myself carlos condit had great game plan and executed it. refused to stand in front of diaz"

    Jon Fitch: "@jonfitchdotnet: I think condit won"

    Miesha Tate: "@mieshatate: I thought Condit won the fight I know Diaz is pissed but Condit had a solid game plan that worked, I thought he won for sure"

    Josh Gross: "48-47 Condit on my card. Wish we got more grappling."

    Brian Stann: "@carloscondit won that fight in my opinion, so happy for him, put a belt around his waist!! He is a great person & father"

    Aaron Simpson: "I scored the same...but real close. RT @KevinI: How did you score the rounds last night @aaronsimpson? I gave Diaz 1-2 and Condit 3-4-5"

    Bas Rutten: "Ha! He did it! Wow, this is freaking great! Props to Jacksons camp, very good strategy"

    Michael Schiavello: "My FINAL scorecard CONDIT vs DIAZ. Condit wins 49 - 46. Fantastic fight by Condit, kicks were awesome, clever plan!"

    Frank Shamrock: "UFC 143 results: Nick Diaz vs Carlos Condit fight metric report shows judges made right decision"

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    Once Mohawked Pete
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Once Mohawked Pete on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:42 pm

    Sheldan wrote:I did score it 48-47 for Diaz, but it was very close that 48-47 for Condit wouldn't have bothered me. What annoys me is the lack of respect people give to fighters, we saw it last week with Bisping and now this week with Condit.

    I think it's quite understandable personally. I have no desire whatsoever, to see a fighter win, by basically not losing. With regards to Bisping, he's made his own bed on that score mate. When you flounce around, stating that you are a 'Top contender' and how you're going to knock Hendo out, it's only to be expected, taht you are going to draw criticism. I'm not even going to begin on his out of the ring, antics again.

    In MMA, I don't think that you should be rewarded, for simply avoiding defeat. You should be looking to finish a fight, either on the feet, or by sub. I have absolutely no desire to watch a GSP/Condit snoozefest.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  payneNglory1 on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:43 pm

    I understand the feeling of being let down,I was looking forward to seeing Diaz,watching Diaz in full fight mode is a thing of beauty and watching Carlos brutally knock so many people out in the past,this was set up as a war,but these are Pro's (well one of them definitely is)not backyard brawlers and just like many greats in boxing have made a succesful career with,Condit came in with a solid gameplan and used movement and selective striking to out smart and win himself a title,while diaz had no plan going in,except hoping his opponent would stand in front of him and trade,not only that but he also didn't have the know how to change and adapt his style as the fight went on.

    Condit out landed Diaz with power shots to the head and legs,so this,he won by running and little leg kicks is a load of crap.

    Condit landed 25% more power shots to the head in that fight than Diaz,aswell as landing 60 odd more leg shots than Diaz,and the clean shots Condit landed were to a planted fighter moving forward,were as diaz's were not as clean,as condit was either backing off or circling out.

    Plus Condit is known for having one punch knock out,where as Diaz isn't,he relys on landing his big combos and breaking people down to get the stoppage,something Condit smartly never let him do.

    Simply IMO,Diaz was out worked and out smarted and the only round Diaz won was round 2 for me.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Mon Feb 06, 2012 6:53 pm

    Personally I think the backlash from both this and the Sonnen- Bisping fight have a lot to do with the fan bases of the respective fighters.

    Had Bisping put on that performance and came that close to winning against any other top contender he would've garnered a lot of praise IMO, but as it was against everyone's favourite Chael Sonnen wasn't the case. Same with Condit, had he put on that performance against a contender like Fitch or someone with a lesser fan base to Diaz, people would be raving about him and rightfully so.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  sunthunder on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:03 pm

    The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Personally I think the backlash from both this and the Sonnen- Bisping fight have a lot to do with the fan bases of the respective fighters.

    Had Bisping put on that performance and came that close to winning against any other top contender he would've garnered a lot of praise IMO, but as it was against everyone's favourite Chael Sonnen wasn't the case. Same with Condit, had he put on that performance against a contender like Fitch or someone with a lesser fan base to Diaz, people would be raving about him and rightfully so.

    Exactly.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  Sheldan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:04 pm

    MMA Hour just started, Greg Jackson and Cesar Gracie both on the show, along with Jake Ellenberger, Mayhem Miller and Dave Herman, well worth a watch.

    http://www.mmafighting.com/ufc/2012/2/6/2771060/the-mma-hour-with-diego-sanchez-jake-ellenberger-mayhem-miller-dave
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:25 pm

    Fights like these are always controversial because they are so close. I've seen about 20 different scorecards from 20 different people. 4-1 Condit, 4-1 Diaz, 3-2 both ways ect. After I watched it I didn't know who had won but I thought that Condit probably edged it. It's one of those fights that will always split opinion but the fight metric stats show the judges picked the right winner IMO. However some of those tweets are laughable from so called professional fighters especially cans like McKenzie, Miller and Bucholz. I don't think you could call it a robbery either way, it was that close.

    Also not sure how you can call Condit a bitch, he fought a very smart fight and as a result has a belt. If he goes out swinging and gets Koed by Diaz then what has he accomplished? That would be moronic and far too many fighters do that when they don't have the ability. If you want to put it like that, I can just call Diaz a one dimensional striker, something Condit exposed. Diaz has one striking style and if people can fight smartly he can't respond.

    Nearly every one I've ever known has said that Garcia lost those fights. IMO he lost against Phan, KZ, Roop and against Massouh as well and for me Phan was probably the biggest robbery of the last few years.

    Sanchez lost the fight against Kampmann IMO. The other controversial fight was Guida which I thought he won, but that was a different sort of fight anyway.

    There will probably be a rematch. GSP is still out for a while anyway so Condit would probably fight again. IMO he needs fight Ellenberger again after he beats Sanchez. I thought Ellenberger won the first fight and the very least he should have had a draw. However that probably won't happen and we will see Diaz vs Condit again.

    One last thing, I didn't have that much of a problem with Diaz's post fight tantrum because I could see how frustrated he was but I hope he wasn't serious about what he said. The difference between the likes of Diaz and GSP is mental strength. Before GSP gained a strong mental strength he was a good but not great fighter. Diaz still has some growing up to do.
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    Re: thoughts on condit v diaz

    Post  efils_god on Mon Feb 06, 2012 7:34 pm

    He yguys, been snowed in all weekend, and desperate to watch the fights back. Anyone got a decent site to see them at?

    cheers

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