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    GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Oct 19, 2011 12:49 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:Condit didnt earn his shot, he was given it because Diaz didnt go to a press confrence. I dont think he should be allowed to wait it out.

    Why not put Condit back in with Penn and allow Diaz to make it up to UFC and do press confrences this time and get the fight with GSP he was supposed to?

    Im a big Condit fan he is exciting but he is 4th in line for a title shot in my books.

    1. Fitch
    2. Diaz/Penn winner
    3. Ellenberger
    4. Condit

    Probabally right behing him are Kos and Shields, if Kos is offering to step up to the plate he should have been given the chance, Condit vs Fitch or Kos makes sence to see if he could stand up to GSP's wrestling.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Anfield no way Kos Takedown Percentages on offence or defence are on power with GSP's I think youd find it hard to get anyone here to back you on the Idea that Kos is the better wrestler. Infact I went to that website fightmetric and

    GSP TD% : 78%
    GSP TDD : 86%
    GSP TD per 15 min : 4.3

    Kos TD% : 54%
    Kos TDD : 56%
    Kos TD per 15 mins : 2.73

    On Paper GSP just looks the much better fighter and considering being the champ he has been in with the better opposition its hard to argue that Kos is a better wrestler.

    Like I say the Chin thing is splitting hairs, Serra and P.Thiago arent big punchers at all but Serra has twice the amount of KO's, I said it was 2-2 but one of P.Thaigos TKO's was opponent injury. Evidence points to GSP having the better chin if anyone.

    No, it doesn't at all. Thiago's a far bigger puncher than Serra and he's also a far bigger man than Serra who's a far LW.

    It's not an argument that Koscheck is a better wrestler, it's a fact.

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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  2brutal on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:28 pm

    Watch gsp kos again the wrestling was not that cut and dry gsp is a better mma wrestler kos amatur wrestler

    Got to love kos 1 wk and he will face condit didnt here fitch or rumble asking for it
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 1:29 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    rudeboyben84 wrote:Condit didnt earn his shot, he was given it because Diaz didnt go to a press confrence. I dont think he should be allowed to wait it out.

    Why not put Condit back in with Penn and allow Diaz to make it up to UFC and do press confrences this time and get the fight with GSP he was supposed to?

    Im a big Condit fan he is exciting but he is 4th in line for a title shot in my books.

    1. Fitch
    2. Diaz/Penn winner
    3. Ellenberger
    4. Condit

    Probabally right behing him are Kos and Shields, if Kos is offering to step up to the plate he should have been given the chance, Condit vs Fitch or Kos makes sence to see if he could stand up to GSP's wrestling.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Anfield no way Kos Takedown Percentages on offence or defence are on power with GSP's I think youd find it hard to get anyone here to back you on the Idea that Kos is the better wrestler. Infact I went to that website fightmetric and

    GSP TD% : 78%
    GSP TDD : 86%
    GSP TD per 15 min : 4.3

    Kos TD% : 54%
    Kos TDD : 56%
    Kos TD per 15 mins : 2.73

    On Paper GSP just looks the much better fighter and considering being the champ he has been in with the better opposition its hard to argue that Kos is a better wrestler.

    Like I say the Chin thing is splitting hairs, Serra and P.Thiago arent big punchers at all but Serra has twice the amount of KO's, I said it was 2-2 but one of P.Thaigos TKO's was opponent injury. Evidence points to GSP having the better chin if anyone.

    No, it doesn't at all. Thiago's a far bigger puncher than Serra and he's also a far bigger man than Serra who's a far LW.

    It's not an argument that Koscheck is a better wrestler, it's a fact.

    Clutching at straws mate, ive cold hard facts that back up what im saying. GSP is a lot better a wrestler, Higher on all Wrestling stats so what makes Kos better if he scores less TD's, hits a lower % of TD's and doesnt defend TD's as well.

    Serra may be a bit smaller but he is a lot broader and more powerfull hence twice as many KO's. I havnt watched all P.Thiagos fights but id bet good money the Kos KO was the only knockdown he scored in his career.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Cowboys From Hell on Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:20 pm

    A shame that GSP vs Condit is off but top to bottom It is still a good card I would imagine they will save this for Toronto (I'm assuming this after the dire Ticket sales of the Vancouver Card).

    A stay of execution for Condit me thinks GSP was going grapple fuck the life out of him.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:41 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    rudeboyben84 wrote:Condit didnt earn his shot, he was given it because Diaz didnt go to a press confrence. I dont think he should be allowed to wait it out.

    Why not put Condit back in with Penn and allow Diaz to make it up to UFC and do press confrences this time and get the fight with GSP he was supposed to?

    Im a big Condit fan he is exciting but he is 4th in line for a title shot in my books.

    1. Fitch
    2. Diaz/Penn winner
    3. Ellenberger
    4. Condit

    Probabally right behing him are Kos and Shields, if Kos is offering to step up to the plate he should have been given the chance, Condit vs Fitch or Kos makes sence to see if he could stand up to GSP's wrestling.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Anfield no way Kos Takedown Percentages on offence or defence are on power with GSP's I think youd find it hard to get anyone here to back you on the Idea that Kos is the better wrestler. Infact I went to that website fightmetric and

    GSP TD% : 78%
    GSP TDD : 86%
    GSP TD per 15 min : 4.3

    Kos TD% : 54%
    Kos TDD : 56%
    Kos TD per 15 mins : 2.73

    On Paper GSP just looks the much better fighter and considering being the champ he has been in with the better opposition its hard to argue that Kos is a better wrestler.

    Like I say the Chin thing is splitting hairs, Serra and P.Thiago arent big punchers at all but Serra has twice the amount of KO's, I said it was 2-2 but one of P.Thaigos TKO's was opponent injury. Evidence points to GSP having the better chin if anyone.

    No, it doesn't at all. Thiago's a far bigger puncher than Serra and he's also a far bigger man than Serra who's a far LW.

    It's not an argument that Koscheck is a better wrestler, it's a fact.

    Clutching at straws mate, ive cold hard facts that back up what im saying. GSP is a lot better a wrestler, Higher on all Wrestling stats so what makes Kos better if he scores less TD's, hits a lower % of TD's and doesnt defend TD's as well.

    Serra may be a bit smaller but he is a lot broader and more powerfull hence twice as many KO's. I havnt watched all P.Thiagos fights but id bet good money the Kos KO was the only knockdown he scored in his career.


    He knocked down Mike Swick.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Oct 19, 2011 5:56 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    rudeboyben84 wrote:Condit didnt earn his shot, he was given it because Diaz didnt go to a press confrence. I dont think he should be allowed to wait it out.

    Why not put Condit back in with Penn and allow Diaz to make it up to UFC and do press confrences this time and get the fight with GSP he was supposed to?

    Im a big Condit fan he is exciting but he is 4th in line for a title shot in my books.

    1. Fitch
    2. Diaz/Penn winner
    3. Ellenberger
    4. Condit

    Probabally right behing him are Kos and Shields, if Kos is offering to step up to the plate he should have been given the chance, Condit vs Fitch or Kos makes sence to see if he could stand up to GSP's wrestling.
    -------------------------------------------------------

    Anfield no way Kos Takedown Percentages on offence or defence are on power with GSP's I think youd find it hard to get anyone here to back you on the Idea that Kos is the better wrestler. Infact I went to that website fightmetric and

    GSP TD% : 78%
    GSP TDD : 86%
    GSP TD per 15 min : 4.3

    Kos TD% : 54%
    Kos TDD : 56%
    Kos TD per 15 mins : 2.73

    On Paper GSP just looks the much better fighter and considering being the champ he has been in with the better opposition its hard to argue that Kos is a better wrestler.

    Like I say the Chin thing is splitting hairs, Serra and P.Thiago arent big punchers at all but Serra has twice the amount of KO's, I said it was 2-2 but one of P.Thaigos TKO's was opponent injury. Evidence points to GSP having the better chin if anyone.

    No, it doesn't at all. Thiago's a far bigger puncher than Serra and he's also a far bigger man than Serra who's a far LW.

    It's not an argument that Koscheck is a better wrestler, it's a fact.

    Clutching at straws mate, ive cold hard facts that back up what im saying. GSP is a lot better a wrestler, Higher on all Wrestling stats so what makes Kos better if he scores less TD's, hits a lower % of TD's and doesnt defend TD's as well.

    Serra may be a bit smaller but he is a lot broader and more powerfull hence twice as many KO's. I havnt watched all P.Thiagos fights but id bet good money the Kos KO was the only knockdown he scored in his career.

    Did you not see him floor Swick?? He's put 4 others on the verge of napping by dropping them, then he's subbed. Thiago is FAR bigger than Serra, and far more powerful.

    You think stats relate to facts?? GSP has a higher takedown percentage than Sonnen. Is he a better wrestler than Sonnen?? Not even in his dreams. Is he better than Askren?? Not even close. Koscheck is an ELITE level wrestler, GSP is not.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Sheldan on Wed Oct 19, 2011 6:00 pm

    Brad Tavares VS Dustin Jacoby is the prelim bout moved to the main card, I don't get that as I though that Vera VS Marshall or even Jorgensen VS Curran was much more worthy.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:03 pm

    GSP isn't an elite wrestler? Couldn't be further from the truth.

    In terms of MMA GSP is a far better wrestler than Koscheck, it's not even debatable. Kos may have been a collegiate wrestler and i'm not disputing that he's a great wrestler, but GSP is just in a different league
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:29 pm

    GSP is not an elite wrestler. He's got a great shot and a good doubleleg but he's not an elite wrestler. His clinch and Greco skills - trips and throws etc, don't come close to the standard of the top guys, his singleleg isn't great either. GSP's athleticism and power allow him to get most of takedowns. His technique is nothing to talk about at all.

    People love to waffle on about how he outwrestles all these wrestlers but the fact is that when he beat Hughes he wasn't fighting a great wrestler. When Hughes was a great wrestler he outwrestled GSP and beat him. In their second fight Hughes was still the better wrestler. In their third fight Hughes was done. He outwrestled Kos when he wasn't training wrestling, their second fight showed Kos as the superior wrestler. His did outwrestle Fitch, but he beat the shit out of him standing. Taking him down was a foregone conclusion. Fitch didn't even both trying to defend the takedowns after the first round.

    Koscheck is a better wrestler than GSP and he is elite. He's in the calibre of Sonnen, Askren et al. GSP is not. Ben Askren actually spoke at length on the subject, as have others. You'll not find a top calibre wrestler who puts GSP into the elite class. Take away GSP's explosiveness and leave him to rely on his technique, he'd be lucky to be successful 20% of the time.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:44 pm

    This is fucking unbelievable!! Diaz was a no-show at the conference call!!
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:46 pm

    Anfield how do you gauge who the better wrestler is if not with statistics?
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 8:58 pm

    Diaz finally turned up!!

    "their second fight showed Kos as the superior wrestler. "

    How exactly? If I Remember correctly GSP beat up Koscheck standing for 25 minutes.

    "His did outwrestle Fitch" "GSP is not an elite wrestler."

    These statements contadict each other highly.

    "GSP's athleticism and power allow him to get most of takedowns. "

    Is this an argument against him him being an elite wrestler? if it is it doesn't make sense, It's like claiming JDS's power allows him to land most of his punches, but he's not an elite boxer.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  redmeanie77 on Wed Oct 19, 2011 11:05 pm














    UFC 137 is still a good card with great main event, but after the loss GSP-Diaz and now GSP-Condit it does feel like such a let down. Lets hope this is last big fight to be scraped this year.

    BJ-Diaz
    Cain-JDS
    Shogun-Hendo
    Wandi-Le
    Mir-Nog
    Faber-Bowles
    Brock-Reem
    Bones-Machida


    Please let these 16 guys stay healthy Exclamation

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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  mattn1977 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:37 am

    Yeah I think UFC 137 is still decent, Penn v Diaz is a strong enough fight to be a main event. I just wish they didn't like each other so much, I love a fight where there is a bit of needle. I can't see anyone baeting GSP for a while though (Condit and Diaz included), no-one in the division can deal with his take downs, and he doesn't take enough risks to get subbed (plus he's very physicaly strong and difficult to manouvre). Their only chance is a serra-esque KO, and that's a long shot.

    My UFC 137 picks; http://mmamunch.blogspot.com/
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:08 am

    Agree with you Matt.

    Is that your own blog? I took a read over it there it's very good mate
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Sheldan on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:18 am

    While we're on the subject of blogs, I wrote a new piece last week, I rushed it so it's nothing special but feel free to check it out guys.

    http://sheldankeay.blogspot.com/2011/10/5-ufc-fights-that-we-should-expect-to.html

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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  mattn1977 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:38 pm

    Yeah it's my blog, thanks for reading!
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 1:36 pm

    mattn1977 wrote:Yeah it's my blog, thanks for reading!

    "death by a thousand cuts" boxing style Laughing Genious mate.

    I hear Penn is good with the 5 round fight as long as he gets paid extra


    "I want to be compensated accordingly. That's it. I'm more than willing to do a five-round fight. If Dana wants a five-round fight, just give me a call and we can put it together right now. Or if Cesar wants to make it a five-round fight and he wants to compensate me personally, he can put his money where his mouth is, it's that easy. I've been training to fight. I'm ready to fight."


    Wants Cesar gracie to Compensate him... meaning youd have to pay me to go an extra 2 rounds. I dont think BJ will win, I know you think TD's and leg kicks but I dont even see him having the cardio to fight 3 rounds at Nick Diaz pace let alone 5. Diaz is just about the busiest fighter in any devision, and at 170 Penn is just a little pudgier than he is a 155, I reckon he starts strong because of his granite chin but gets worn down from the 2nd onwards regardless of its 3 or 5.


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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  mattn1977 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:21 pm

    You could well be right mate, as always with BJ a hell of a lot depends on what kind of shape he is in. If he just stands with Nick for 3 rounds he'll probably lose, he needs to mix it up for sure
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:43 pm

    Yep agree he deffo needs to mix it up, though BJ while rediculously tallented isnt always the best tactician, when he isnt winning the fight he wants to fight he finds it hard to change pace, against Edgar and GSP he showed he couldnt change tactics... I think once Nick steps up the pace BJ will have trouble trying to use Kicks because they arent his strong point, Wrestling he could do but do you really see Penn going into GSP mode and trying to wrestlefuck him?

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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  mattn1977 on Thu Oct 20, 2011 2:54 pm

    Yeah I mean I can't see BJ turning into Fitch/GSP overnight but If he can get Nick down at some point then his ground and pound is pretty good. He needs to break Nick's rhythm wherever possible. BJ is also fairly good in the clinch, anything but just stand there and get out pointed for three rounds. You are right about BJ's tactics though, he rarely seems to change mid fight. I'm hoping he comes in with a good plan and sticks to it.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Sheldan on Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:36 pm

    Tavares is injured now, Jorgensen VS Curran is now on the UFC 137 main card.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:07 pm

    The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Anfield how do you gauge who the better wrestler is if not with statistics?

    Technique, versatility and ability to get the takedown in any situation.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:25 pm

    p4pnumber_1 wrote:Diaz finally turned up!!

    "their second fight showed Kos as the superior wrestler. "

    How exactly? If I Remember correctly GSP beat up Koscheck standing for 25 minutes.

    "His did outwrestle Fitch" "GSP is not an elite wrestler."

    These statements contadict each other highly.

    "GSP's athleticism and power allow him to get most of takedowns. "

    Is this an argument against him him being an elite wrestler? if it is it doesn't make sense, It's like claiming JDS's power allows him to land most of his punches, but he's not an elite boxer.

    GSP tried and failed to take Kos down, Kos took GSP down with ease. GSP gave up on wrestling and spent his 25minutes jabbing and running.

    No they don't. Perhaps if you bothered to read what I actually wrote. He beat Fitch up standing, which made taking him down easy. Anyone with half decent wrestling can take down any man, regardless of their wrestling ability, when you're beating them that comprehensively with striking. GSP's striking is what allows him to be so successful with his takedowns. It's not his wrestling ability that does it. STRIKING is not part of WRESTLING. GSP is a better FIGHTER than any wrestler in the sport but he's not a better WRESTLER. He's also a much better striker than any wrestler in the sport(Mo and Sonnen have boxing skills that are better, but neither have the allround striking ability than 20 years of Karate and 3 a weeks with Phil Nurse have given GSP). GSP has very good technical boxing. Fuck all power, but the technique is to be admired. As is the accuracy and crisp nature of his punches. When you are able to outbox somebody comprehensively as GSP has done to every wrestler he's faced, you can take them down at any time you please because their hands will be up at their face protecting themselves from punches, rather than at chest level, which leaves the waist and legs completely exposed. It also alters the body position of the person defending the takedown, making them more upright which makes it easier to take them down because their balance is neutralized. Have a look at the Sonnen-Silva fight. Sonnen outboxed Anderson and took him down with incredible ease because Anderson was forced to defend the strikes. Anderson has generally had excellent takedown defence throughout his career, Sonnen made him look like he'd never defended a takedown in his life. A lot of it was obviously Sonnen's wrestling, but most of the takedowns were set up by the hands.

    Have you ever done any amateur wrestling or Judo? Technique and versatility is what makes a great wrestler, physical gifts can get you so far, but without technique and versatility you've got nothing at the highest level. GSP has little of either and relies on his STRIKING and ATHLETICISM to give him takedowns. Striking and athleticism are aspects of FIGHTING not WRESTLING.

    Again, GSP is an elite FIGHTER and he puts everything together brilliantly. His WRESTLING on it's own though, is not special and not of an elite level.

    What a bizarre little statement about JDS that was! Power doesn't allow you to land punches either. Technique does. Power allows you to knock them out. JDS has great striking technique, even if he had half the power he'd still beat people.
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    Re: GSP out of UFC 137 with an injury.

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Fri Oct 21, 2011 10:28 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    mattn1977 wrote:Yeah it's my blog, thanks for reading!

    "death by a thousand cuts" boxing style Laughing Genious mate.

    I hear Penn is good with the 5 round fight as long as he gets paid extra


    "I want to be compensated accordingly. That's it. I'm more than willing to do a five-round fight. If Dana wants a five-round fight, just give me a call and we can put it together right now. Or if Cesar wants to make it a five-round fight and he wants to compensate me personally, he can put his money where his mouth is, it's that easy. I've been training to fight. I'm ready to fight."


    Wants Cesar gracie to Compensate him... meaning youd have to pay me to go an extra 2 rounds. I dont think BJ will win, I know you think TD's and leg kicks but I dont even see him having the cardio to fight 3 rounds at Nick Diaz pace let alone 5. Diaz is just about the busiest fighter in any devision, and at 170 Penn is just a little pudgier than he is a 155, I reckon he starts strong because of his granite chin but gets worn down from the 2nd onwards regardless of its 3 or 5.


    BJ surprised Fitch with his takedowns but he was also outboxing him which made the takedowns much easier. He won't be outboxing Diaz and will also have a big reach advantage, so I'm not sure BJ will find it in any way easy to take Diaz down, regardless of Nick's lack of TD defence.

    Are people expecting BJ to use legkicks?? He's rarely used them in the past and doesn't generally train Muay Thai. Would be a strange fight to start in.

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