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    Rugby world cup!

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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:43 pm

    pinsman wrote:No ones back row is better than the all blacks! Why the hell they havent sent out Macalister to replace Carter is beyond me aswell!

    Ireland are looking good and dangerous, but I still think England have the minerals to beat them... we have a very competitive pack I dont think you can disguard. Our three quarters are among the best in the world.

    I don't wanna be a jinx but our defence is terrific too, not many teams can break us down easily and score tri's. Theirs holes in the Irish back line England can explote if it comes to it... just need to give Manu and the back three some room to work and some quick ball!!!!!!!!

    I agree Slade doesn't seem up to it. MaCalister is a better centre IMO but he would be better than Slade. Or how about Nick Evans Razz

    NZ's back row has clearly missed Read in a big way. With Read they might have the best back row in the world, without I think the Irish or the Springboks edge it.

    Everyone talks about Sean O Brien, but Stephen Ferris might just be better. Sensational player.
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:45 pm

    Anfields5thKing wrote:It must be a bit embarrassing that the mighty England can't even field a team of Englishmen.

    NZ and Australia have been fielding no native players for years, at one point have the All black side was Fijian.
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    p4pnumber_1
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  p4pnumber_1 on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:22 am

    You'll never beat the Irish! cheers cheers

    I actually rate their chances of getting to the final! Now that would be some achievement.
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    Ginginho
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Ginginho on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:32 am

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:It must be a bit embarrassing that the mighty England can't even field a team of Englishmen.

    NZ and Australia have been fielding no native players for years, at one point have the All black side was Fijian.


    Rubbish!! Most of them are born or have lived in NZ for most of their lives (of course there are exceptions).

    Samoa had the most imported players at the World Cup this year with 15 of their players born in NZ - we export more players than we import.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:36 am

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:It must be a bit embarrassing that the mighty England can't even field a team of Englishmen.

    NZ and Australia have been fielding no native players for years, at one point have the All black side was Fijian.

    What non natives have Australia fielded?? And what Fijian's have played for New Zealand?

    The Islander rule dates back god knows how long and is based on tribal links and is completely different than England fielding two Maori's who clearly have no right to play for England.
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    Ginginho
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Ginginho on Tue Oct 04, 2011 12:37 am

    pinsman wrote:Why the hell they havent sent out Macalister to replace Carter is beyond me aswell!


    Macalister could barely make the Auckland team and is a fairly flaky player - he had played himself out of the ABs a long time ago. Hopefully Slade won't cost us too much but his early tournament form is very patchy...
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:24 am

    Just a couple of examples on the top of my head:

    Joe Rockocko was Fijian and born in Fiji. Same goes for Sivivatu. Toeva and Muliania who are both in the current squad were born in Samoa. Fair enough they lived in NZ for a large part of there lives, but the same applies to Tuliagi.

    As for OZ, aside from having a couple of Kiwis in the side they have Samo (Fiji born) and Will Genia (Papa New Guinea) not to mention past players like Lote Tuqiri.

    As Gin said, pretty much the entire Samoan side was born abroad.
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    Paddyjock
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Paddyjock on Tue Oct 04, 2011 6:37 am

    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:It must be a bit embarrassing that the mighty England can't even field a team of Englishmen.

    NZ and Australia have been fielding no native players for years, at one point have the All black side was Fijian.

    What non natives have Australia fielded?? And what Fijian's have played for New Zealand?

    The Islander rule dates back god knows how long and is based on tribal links and is completely different than England fielding two Maori's who clearly have no right to play for England.

    Several of the Ausrialian players were actually born in NZ including Quade Cooper who the Kiwis hate with a passion for roughing uo Ritchie McCaw not once but three times!!
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:12 pm

    Paddyjock wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:
    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:
    Anfields5thKing wrote:It must be a bit embarrassing that the mighty England can't even field a team of Englishmen.

    NZ and Australia have been fielding no native players for years, at one point have the All black side was Fijian.

    What non natives have Australia fielded?? And what Fijian's have played for New Zealand?

    The Islander rule dates back god knows how long and is based on tribal links and is completely different than England fielding two Maori's who clearly have no right to play for England.

    Several of the Ausrialian players were actually born in NZ including Quade Cooper who the Kiwis hate with a passion for roughing uo Ritchie McCaw not once but three times!!

    Cooper moved to Australia at 13 and has Aussie relatives, Digby Ioane is the only other New Zealand born player in the squad and he moved at 5. Stephen Moore is actually Irish, but moved to Australia at 5, David Pocock is from Zimbabwae and moved to Oz at 14, Samo is from Fiji and moved at 18, Will Genia moved from Papua New Guinea at like 6 or something.

    All of these players moved as kids because their parents made the moved. There's no comparison to the situation where England have recruited multiple grown men who are already established pros and playing in England have moved as pros.

    Daniel Vickerman is the only convert to Australia who didn't move as a kid, and he's was only 19.
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    Mryzyz
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Mryzyz on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:26 pm

    Ronan O'Gara is a yank.

    Boo.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:31 pm

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:Just a couple of examples on the top of my head:

    Joe Rockocko was Fijian and born in Fiji. Same goes for Sivivatu. Toeva and Muliania who are both in the current squad were born in Samoa. Fair enough they lived in NZ for a large part of there lives, but the same applies to Tuliagi.

    As for OZ, aside from having a couple of Kiwis in the side they have Samo (Fiji born) and Will Genia (Papa New Guinea) not to mention past players like Lote Tuqiri.

    As Gin said, pretty much the entire Samoan side was born abroad.

    Samoa don't claim to be a rugby superpower and in all fairness, that's a tiny Island with a population of 180,000. None of those players were born abroad to anything other than Samoan parents either, which is a major difference to the England imports.

    I went through the list of Aussies in my previous post. Lote Tuquiri also moved as a child.

    Same goes for all the New Zealanders born in Samoa. All moved as children and don't forget that when their parents were born Samoa was part of New Zealand as it didn't gain independance until the 60's so they were considered New Zealanders in the same way Irish people born in the Ireland were considered British up until independence and thus their children were automatically entitled to passports from that country, so all the Samoan born players on the NZ team were entitled to NZ passports.

    Rokocoko moved at 5 and all his rugby development took place in NZ. He, like most of the other on the Aussie and NZ teams that were born abroad, had never even played rugby before landing in their new homes.

    Hape was 22 and an establish pro league player when he moved, he also played league for NZ a bunch of times. Manu moved at like 14 as far as I can remember but he has no ties to England and a move from Samoa to England is a bit different than any of the ones made by the Aussie or NZ players, except for Moore, but he was a lot younger and his parents moved to work. Manu moved to live with his brothers and play rugby. Don't forget that he was almost deported last year because he had been in England illegally after coming over on a holiday visa and then never leaving. He actually has no legal right or entitlement to play for England because he was never actually a resident of England up until last year and by law he is required to have been resident for 3 years before he can represent England. He was granted special residency based on his "special talent" when in reality he was an illegal immigrant and should have been deported.

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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Tue Oct 04, 2011 9:33 pm

    Mryzyz wrote:Ronan O'Gara is a yank.

    Boo.

    Born in the States to Irish nationals. Visited Ireland every year as a child, moved back at 10 or 11.
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    pinsman
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  pinsman on Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:41 pm

    Anfield you inspire me, your a wise man with much knowledge and wisdom! How in the hell do you know all this?
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    Paddyjock
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Paddyjock on Fri Oct 07, 2011 9:38 pm

    Wikipedia
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Oct 08, 2011 12:49 am

    Paddyjock wrote:Wikipedia

    Nope, well the ages I checked to make sure I was right but the rest I knew. One of my best mates is a Kiwi and he's always ranting about this subject and how NZ gets a bad rep for fielding players not born in NZ.

    I knew about the Samoan/NZ link because I love me some history. Colonies fascinate me.

    Oh, and I once gave Ronan O'Gara Judo lessons at UCC.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:15 pm

    Guess we were both wrong Chelski!

    Might as well hand over the World Cup to whoever wins the NZ-Boks/Oz game.
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:15 pm

    Yep, shows how little I know since I was embarrassingly wrong about blowing the French away. Gutted, but that 1st half was the worst half of Rugby I've ever seen England play. Not sure how we've dropped so badly since the beginning of the year. The team has acted horribly since arriving in NZ, no discipline whatsoever.

    I had a feeling about the Welsh, everything just clicked for them. Warburton put on a magnificent performance, to outshine Ferris and SOB is incredible. They should get to the final now.

    Looks like the titles New Zealands to be honest. Can't even see Oz or SA stopping them. The only doubt I have about them is the loss of Carter.

    Oh well, 4 more years.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Sat Oct 08, 2011 6:48 pm

    With England out it was Ireland's final to make and they blew. I don't think Wales were that good, Ireland were just that bad on the day.
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    redmeanie77
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  redmeanie77 on Sat Oct 08, 2011 9:05 pm














    So dissapointed Ireland lost, i didnt watch it as it was way too early. But losing to Wales in the QF of WC is very dissapointing. Hope Wales make it to the final though will be great for them.
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    pinsman
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  pinsman on Mon Oct 10, 2011 7:19 pm

    pinsman wrote:I agree with oz gin... I watch a lot of super rugby and Q.cooper is guna cause some serious problems in this torney! He's shit in defence but his offense is about the best in the game at present, I'd even rate him above carter in attack.

    I got a feeling about France this time round too, I guess any team could win it really there's so many styles that cause different teams issues.

    Two of my picks are still there! New Zealand really aren't the same team without Carter! Slade had a bit of a shocker!

    Im guna stick with Oz v France in the final with an Oz win!
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Mon Oct 10, 2011 10:33 pm

    pinsman wrote:
    pinsman wrote:I agree with oz gin... I watch a lot of super rugby and Q.cooper is guna cause some serious problems in this torney! He's shit in defence but his offense is about the best in the game at present, I'd even rate him above carter in attack.

    I got a feeling about France this time round too, I guess any team could win it really there's so many styles that cause different teams issues.

    Two of my picks are still there! New Zealand really aren't the same team without Carter! Slade had a bit of a shocker!

    Im guna stick with Oz v France in the final with an Oz win!

    Slade's out mate, they called up Donald duck to replace him. They really should have taken Evans, regardless of overseas rules.

    Cruden is better than Slade anyway, he played well when he came on. I still think it's a NZ win, Australia were shocking against South Africa. Aside from Pockock and possibly Beale the team was poor and SA really should have won. They dominated.

    I think the Welsh should beat the French, we were just awful against them.

    Now watch Australia destroy NZ and France hammer Wales Laughing
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:08 am

    Yeah I'm expecting a NZ-Wales final too.

    To be honest, had Ireland not been so poor against the Welsh, I'd actually give them quite a good chance against whoever else makes the final. NZ have really dropped a couple of levels without Carter and I, like you, thought Oz were awful against the Boks and should have been soundly beaten. Ireland really fucked up Gray Maynard style.

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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  GSPfan11 on Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:17 pm

    As a Welshman i think you guys are being a little harsh. I never had any doubts we would beat Ireland and thought we'd take it by 10+ points.

    I think Wales have been incredibly lucky not just with how the draw has worked out but also with selections. Priestland for instance was being considered as a FB for this tournament untill he was thrown in at fly half 10mins before the England (warm up) game. Also had Jones been fit Gatland probably would have picked him at 10 for the start of the world cup. And playing HAlfpenny may look like a great move from Gatland against Ireland but its only because of his performances on the wing when Shane Williams got injured that got him considered and had Hook not got a knock against Samoa he'd have almost certainly have started at 15.

    Anyway back to the Ireland game i just couldn't see us losing. The win over Australia hid the fact they are a team that rely to heavily on players who's best days are behind them, and if i was picking a starting 15 of just Ireland and Welsh players i'd have had more Welsh (maybe i'm biased). I thought that to give themselves a chance of winning Ireland would have had to have gone into the last 20mins atleast 8 points ahead as they were always gona struggle to live with us in the last quarter.

    Anyway on to the semi finals. Im preying NZ live up to there choker tags and lose to Australia as i cant see us beating them, cant make any possible argument as to how we will beat them if i'm honest. And we should beat France as they've already had there final when they beat England (here's hoping)
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Tue Oct 11, 2011 11:57 pm

    I agree to an extent with both of you.

    In my opinion the Irish team did at the very most underperform against the Welsh, which is disappointing considering the experience of the side. But the Welsh did play very well and they have a top team. The likes of Phillips and Roberts have regained there Lions form which for me is world class. For me the Welsh have a better front 3 and better backs. Ireland had the advantage with there locks and loose forwards, but even then Warburton was brilliant.

    Carter is a huge loss to NZ, but they are far from a one man team. Where as Australia heavily rely on Pockock, without him SA might have beaten them by 50 points.

    NZ vs Wales final for me with the hosts taking it.
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    pinsman
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    Re: Rugby world cup!

    Post  pinsman on Wed Oct 12, 2011 10:18 pm

    Well Beale is out for the game... Pockock was awesome and him against Maccaw is going to be epic! I actually can't wait to see this game Maccaw is my hero. By Donald duck do you mean Donald? surely the overseas thing should apply there hes at Bath isn't he???

    Wales are a cert for the final now I would think.

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