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    New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

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    payneNglory1
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  payneNglory1 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:03 pm

    Is my case for making Kongo #15 any stronger yet.

    FW's

    #1 Aldo
    #2 Hioki
    #3 Mendes
    #4 Florian
    #5 Griffin
    #6 Manny
    #7 Warren
    #8 Sandro
    #9 Freire
    #10 Nunes
    #11 Hominick
    #12 Fernandes
    #13 Koch
    #14 Omigawa
    #15 Yahya

    Feel free to rip these to bits,they were hard to do as there shit loads of fighters in this division that can make a claim to be in the top 15,I can see the JMO list being huge.

    (I even looked at loads of different sites rankings and they are all wildly different from each other)
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    manschesthair_utd
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:23 pm

    Griffin and Gamburyan are much too high IMO.

    Griffin just snapped a 3 fight losing streak by squeaking out a decision against Manny...and somehow he is a top 5 fighter in a stacked division? not for me.
    Likewise Manny is ranked based on 1 good win, and he has now lost 2 in a row...compare with Sandro who was concensus #2 before he lost, and he has just won a fight. Think Warren, Sandro and Pitbull should be above those 2.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  payneNglory1 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:32 pm

    BW

    #1 Cruz
    #2 Benavidez
    #3 Faber
    #4 Bowles
    #5 Johnson
    #6 Torres
    #7 Jorgenson
    #8 Barao
    #9 Kid
    #10 McDonald
    #11 Mizugaki
    #12 Pickett
    #13 Makovsky
    #14 Fabiano
    #15 Page

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    payneNglory1
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  payneNglory1 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:07 pm

    manschesthair_utd wrote:Griffin and Gamburyan are much too high IMO.

    Griffin just snapped a 3 fight losing streak by squeaking out a decision against Manny...and somehow he is a top 5 fighter in a stacked division? not for me.
    Likewise Manny is ranked based on 1 good win, and he has now lost 2 in a row...compare with Sandro who was concensus #2 before he lost, and he has just won a fight. Think Warren, Sandro and Pitbull should be above those 2.


    I personally felt like the top 6 is about spot on,it's everything below that,I was struggling with,but at the end of the day it's all about opinions Very Happy

    I believe Manny was already ranked at 5 on here before,so I just used the rule of thumb for our Rankings and placed the winner above the loser.

    To be fair though i like sandro but what did he do to earn a #2 ranking?
    I'd say Manny's ranked wins at FW made a better case for him getting the #5 spot compared to Sandro beating alot of unranked guys and Hata and Dennis to get the #2 spot.
    Plus Sandro's struggles to over come his completely unranked opponent at bellator the other week,didn't do anything to make me think he should be higher.

    Looking back at there records I'm nearly inclined to say Pitbull should actually be ahead of Sandro aswell at the moment,but since sandro was already ranked higher i think he should stay ahead for now..

    Granted Tyson has been on a losing streak against a solid field of LW's (he was 14-2 against really strong competition before that run)but if your going to use that against him,then surely you have to credit him with his previous efforts,like his FW win against faber and all his LW wins against the likes of Guida,Tibau,Aurelio,Franca Etc.
    He's faced and beat better competition then anything warren,sandro and pitbull have,and i think beating Manny justifies his instant high ranking a FW personally.
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    redmeanie77
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  redmeanie77 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:11 pm
















    manschesthair_utd wrote:Griffin and Gamburyan are much too high IMO.

    Griffin just snapped a 3 fight losing streak by squeaking out a decision against Manny...and somehow he is a top 5 fighter in a stacked division? not for me.
    Likewise Manny is ranked based on 1 good win, and he has now lost 2 in a row...compare with Sandro who was concensus #2 before he lost, and he has just won a fight. Think Warren, Sandro and Pitbull should be above those 2.





    And where is Takaya and consequently Peralta? Takaya was top 3 i think,1 loss should not mean you go into obscurity.
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 8:56 pm

    redmeanie77 wrote:














    manschesthair_utd wrote:Griffin and Gamburyan are much too high IMO.

    Griffin just snapped a 3 fight losing streak by squeaking out a decision against Manny...and somehow he is a top 5 fighter in a stacked division? not for me.
    Likewise Manny is ranked based on 1 good win, and he has now lost 2 in a row...compare with Sandro who was concensus #2 before he lost, and he has just won a fight. Think Warren, Sandro and Pitbull should be above those 2.





    And where is Takaya and consequently Peralta? Takaya was top 3 i think,1 loss should not mean you go into obscurity.

    yeah Takaya loss made doing the Fw rankings a pain in the balls, ill have a bash at it or suggest improvments before next UFC, Hard to say where Griffin and Manny are, remember Manny beating MTB was massive at the time. Griffin is nearly on the level of Guida and Guida is easily top 10 in the weight class above.. id rate them both top 10 but they do look a bit too high.

    And Payne Kongo should be top 15 your right, he should go in over Cormier if everyone agrees.
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    payneNglory1
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  payneNglory1 on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:00 pm

    I did say I was struggling,I just want Ben to get these rankings sorted,forgot how much I looked at them after an event,until they were gone.

    I think I have hominick to high aswell,probably should be at 14,or off the list if Takaya and Peralta get on.
    These lighter weights are hard,there's quite a few more fighters that make good cases for getting on the bottom of the list,I can see why Ben was passing them on now Razz

    Takaya top #3 is mad if you ask me.

    With Fernandes at 12,Takaya probably should be on the list but at who's expense,probably Yahya,then with Takaya being Peralta's only top win,he'd have to go in as well replacing two off that list (maybe Yahya and Hominick) looking at there records though I'm finding it hard to justify them going above any of the others.

    #11 fernandes
    #12 Peralta
    #13 Takaya
    #14 Koch
    #15 Omigawa

    maybe
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    manschesthair_utd
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  manschesthair_utd on Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:39 pm

    wow cant believe i forgot about Takaya!!
    wasnt his last loss at lightweight, or was it featherweight?
    ...either way it was a fight that could have easily been given to Takaya.

    Miyata is another guy you overlooked, he has won 6 straight now. last 2 were dominant victories over Caol Uno and top 10 fighter Lion Takeshi.
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:47 pm

    2brutal wrote:I rate ellenberger higher maybe not justified though

    Rory mc is he on there,

    Pyle bit high maybe

    I rate Ellenberger, where do you think I should have him? Come to think of it he did KO Pyle last year.

    I'll put Rory Mc on the JMO list.

    I'll have to move Pyle down.
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Wed Jun 29, 2011 12:52 pm

    sunthunder wrote:I think I'd rate DHK higher than guys like Hathaway and Pyle.

    Has Kim beaten any ranked opponents? Hathaway beat Sanchez and Pyle beat Hathaway, thats why I had them above Kim. Where do you think he should be ranked?
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:20 pm

    1. Georges St. Pierre
    2. Jon Fitch
    3. Nick Diaz
    4. Jake Shields
    5. BJ Penn
    6. Josh Koscheck
    7. Carlos Condit
    8. Diego Sanchez
    9. Mike Pyle
    10. Martin Kampmann
    11. Jake Ellenberger
    12. Paul Daley
    13. Jay Hieron
    14. Charlie Brennen
    15. Rick Story

    OK I think Hieron cant be missed out, the guy is on a 10 fight winning spree.

    I think Ellenberger needs to be higher

    Thiago Alves has always been one of my favorite Ww's but I dont think he can be ranked with such great competition in the weight class. Is a win over Kos back in 08 really keeping him top 15 despite 3 losses in 4 fights....

    Id swap Penn and Kos because Kos took a whooping in his last fight and we havnt seen or heard of him since, Penn held the clear cut number 2 to a draw, I reckon he diserves to be higher than Kos.

    Id move Shields down because he was 3rd before he fought GSP and Diaz has been nipping on his heels rankings wise, I reckon Diaz undefeated run should move him up to 3rd.
    --------------

    Hows that look?

    Just Missed out would be:

    Thaigo Alves, Ben Askren, Matt Hughes, Dong Hyun Kim, Brian Ebersole, Mike Pierce, Anthony Johnson...

    I wouldnt include Paulo Thiago again an old win over Kos is really keeping him ranked or relevans, dude need another win because the JMO list is full of top guys.
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Wed Jun 29, 2011 6:08 pm

    Thanks for the feedback Ben and I agree with what you've said for the most part.

    I agree about Diaz and BJ.

    Hieron probably does deserve to be ranked, but IMO he hasn't beaten anyone in the the 10 fight win streak and he won a gift against Hawn. I think he should be top 15, but probably exactly at 15.

    I'm not sure what to do with Pyle and Ellenberger. I am of the opinion that if you beat someone you should be ranked ahead of them, especially if you haven't lost. Since that fight Pyle has won 3 lost 0 and Jake has won 3 lost 0. Pyle has beaten the better competition though so I'm not sure.

    And what do you think about DHK? He's undefeated and arguably has better wins than Hieron, should he be ranked? He's been boring as hell for the last few years but there's no doubting he's a talented fighter.

    I agree about Alves but I don't want to feel the wrath of Anfield Laughing

    To be fair to Thiago, I think he has better wins than Ebersole and Pierce, but if you want me to keep the JMO short then ye I'll keep him off.

    I'll wait for a bit more feedback before I fix it up completely.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:21 pm

    Alves is top 10. No question about him. Ridiculous to claim he wouldn't be top 15.

    He should certainly be over
    Diego Sanchez
    Mike Pyle
    Martin Kampmann
    Jake Ellenberger
    Paul Daley
    Jay Hieron
    Charlie Brennen
    Rick Story - despite Story spoiling his way to a cheap win.
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:08 pm

    Shit yeah that makes sence Ellenberger should be where Pyle is, Mixed them up.... And im cool to drop Hieron too
    ---------------------------------------------------

    Anfield

    Im struggling to know what to do with Alves/Brennen/Story

    One way to look at it is that After the loss to Story Avles was say 14th and Story 13th.... now Brennen was say 50th ranked so that should make them meet mid way... say both now 25ish... Leaving Alves top 15. If that is the case heres the way Id rank them...

    1. Georges St. Pierre
    2. Jon Fitch
    3. Nick Diaz
    4. Jake Shields
    5. BJ Penn
    6. Josh Koscheck
    7. Carlos Condit
    8. Diego Sanchez
    9. Jake Ellenberger
    10. Martin Kampmann
    11. Mike Pyle
    12. Paul Daley
    13. Thaigo Alves
    14. Jay Hieron
    15. Matt Hughes

    If neither Story or Brennen is top 15 now Id add Hughes, I think he got wrote off after the BJ loss but in fairness he has only lost to the top guys.

    Does that look better to everyone with Ellenberger and Pyle swapped, Hieron lower and Alves still ranked?
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:16 pm

    Im swaying towards Keeping Alves off.... Howard isnt a good win, his last win before that was Kos back 3 years ago, his losses are to top guys apart from Story but Its not like he held his own against GSP or Fitch. His record of 18-8 isnt good compared to other ranked guys

    Need feedback asap guys wanting to get the 145 and 135 done, cheers.
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:44 am

    On what basis are

    8. Diego Sanchez
    9. Jake Ellenberger
    10. Martin Kampmann
    11. Mike Pyle
    12. Paul Daley

    Ahead of Alves??

    Sanchez I can sort of accept. But Ellenberger?? Kampmann?? Pyle?? and Daley?????

    Alves record is good compared to other ranked guys. Really??

    Kos is 15-5
    Pyle is 21-7 and his biggest win is Hathaway!
    Who has Ellenberger beat?
    Daley is 27-10 and has two good wins, Kampmann and Masvidal - who wasn't top 20 at the time. He's beaten a load of bums to pad his record, and lost to bums too.
    Kampmann is 17-5 and he's not faced the quality Alves has faced.
    Who has Hieron beaten?? Ellenberger years ago and Joe Riggs? Please.

    Alves is a top 10 WW. No question. Yes, It's two and a half years since he destroyed Koscheck, but it's not like he's been fighting bums! GSP and Fitch are two of the top 3 and he lost the Fitch fight before he got in the cage. That loss is on him, rather than having anything to do with Fitch. And he missed over a year after his brain operation so he couldn't fit. Story he should have beaten and would have beaten if the scoring in MMA didn't award people for not fighting. But there is no way there are ten better WWs in the world than Diego Sanchez. And he's certainly more deserving of a place on the list for his form over the last 5 years than say, Matt Hughes.
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    ChelseaQuinsfan
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  ChelseaQuinsfan on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:59 am

    That is actually a fair point Anfield, but at the same time it's all about keeping the rankings relevant and based on his last couple of fights is ALves really in the top 15 WWs in the world?

    However I don't think it's exactly fair to punish Alves for losing to the best in the division, and reward Hieron for beating bums, one of which was a gift.

    Ellenberger beat Pyle and he beat Howard more decisively than Alves did as well. He has solid wins over Pat Healy, Jose Landi Jones, Rocha and he should have beat Condit as well.

    Daley actually only has one win over a ranked opponent. That was almost 2 years ago.

    Before the GSP fight Alves was 2nd. After the Fitch fight he dropped to about 5th, then he went up a place after beating Howard. Can we really drop him 12 places or more for the loss to Story?

    I can't put him above Story or Brennan though.

    Anfield if you don't mind, can you just give me your top 15 WW rankings and I'll get a better idea of what to do.



    2brutal
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  2brutal on Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:14 pm

    not sure chelsea its hard at the bottom end of the top 15 at welter because a lot of them have beat the others then lost etc, maybe above hathaway he struggled imo to get a narrow narrow deceision over the ultimate fighter mcray lad who is far from ranked and since cut,
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    Anfields5thKing
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:02 pm

    ChelseaQuinsfan wrote:That is actually a fair point Anfield, but at the same time it's all about keeping the rankings relevant and based on his last couple of fights is ALves really in the top 15 WWs in the world?

    However I don't think it's exactly fair to punish Alves for losing to the best in the division, and reward Hieron for beating bums, one of which was a gift.

    Ellenberger beat Pyle and he beat Howard more decisively than Alves did as well. He has solid wins over Pat Healy, Jose Landi Jones, Rocha and he should have beat Condit as well.

    Daley actually only has one win over a ranked opponent. That was almost 2 years ago.

    Before the GSP fight Alves was 2nd. After the Fitch fight he dropped to about 5th, then he went up a place after beating Howard. Can we really drop him 12 places or more for the loss to Story?

    I can't put him above Story or Brennan though.

    Anfield if you don't mind, can you just give me your top 15 WW rankings and I'll get a better idea of what to do.



    Can't put him above Brennan?? Nonsense! Did Brennan beat Alves? No.

    I'll do the 15 later.
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:50 pm

    You know what Kos has lost twice since Alves and P.Thiago wasnt on the radar before he beat Kos. His only ranked win was Daley.... I really agree with you guys Im punishing him far too much for loosing to the number 1 and 2. Him and Story were both top 10 after their fight id say (with Story 1 place higher) After Story lost to a fighter ranked 50ish Story is not ranked 20ish...

    Ellenberger hasnt a great carerr win, a few good ones but no great ones. Daley hasnt flattened anyone Alves couldnt either so I reckon Alves goes in behing Diego.

    (On that note Id love him to get Diego, I think after he battered Diego he may make him rething 170)

    1. Georges St. Pierre
    2. Jon Fitch
    3. Nick Diaz
    4. Jake Shields
    5. BJ Penn
    6. Josh Koscheck
    7. Carlos Condit
    8. Diego Sanchez
    9. Thaigo Alves
    10. Jake Ellenberger
    11. Martin Kampmann
    12. Mike Pyle
    13. Paul Daley
    14. Jay Hieron
    15. Matt Hughes

    I reckon Brennen sorta unofficial 16th....

    hows that ook now lads, id be happy to leave that as the final draft.

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    payneNglory1
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  payneNglory1 on Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:52 pm

    I think after 3 fights back as a WW,Sanchez is in a bit of a false position really,when you think he got convincingly beat by Hathaway,struggled with Thiago until he gassed and got a controversial decision against Kampmann by just constantly moving forward and throwing wild haymakers while hurting Kampmann's hands with his face.

    I'd personally still have him behind Alves.
    If he beats Hughes at 135,then I'd say after 3 wins back to back against Thiago,kampmann and Hughes,compared to Alves recent poor run would be enough to finally over take him.




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