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    New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

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    rudeboyben84
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    New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:01 pm

    The website or computer went mad and the Rankings got deleted when I was trying to edit them.... I think we needed to have a look at them anyway because I had sort of lost track of them

    I Wanted us all to set down the rules so we are on the same wave length.



    *****************************************************************
    Rules
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    1. The official decision gets taken.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    2. If you beat Someone ranked above you, you move above him in the rankings.
    I.e. No.3 beats No.1 he will be ranked above him, wether they are both now over No.2, Wether neither is over No.2, or only the winner is depends on how their record now looks in comparison to his.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    3. Performances and Activity get taken into account.
    (a.) If you win by a devisive finish this should be seen as a better win than scraping an underseved SD, so now a fighter with a couple of undeserved SD's wont go unnoticed.
    (b.) If you are inactive for a year you move down
    (c.) If you havnt had a win in a year this should also be treated as inactivity but not as bad as (b.)
    (d.) Close ranked fighters should not only be based on records but recent performances.
    (e.) The more recent a fight the more relevant
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    4. Qualiy of opposition matters. Loosing to a non ranked fighter will either get him Ranked, or if he isnt ranked after beating you neither of you are. I.e No.5 in the rankings looses to a guy who wouldnt be top 50. Wether they both are ranked depends on wether with your name on his CV does the lower ranked guy become top 15?
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    5. A fighter moving weight down a weight class will go up one place in the rankings below him. A fighter doing up a weight class will go down a place in the weight class above him. This is because Historically fighter cutting weight have more success in the weight class below than fighers moving up weight class.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------
    *****************************************************************

    Well how does that look, anything to add before we repost the rankings? Someone suggested a points system and I think that clearly doesnt work as Fightmatrix has some fucked up guys in weight places.

    Any Ideas for rules for the new rankings?


    Last edited by rudeboyben84 on Mon Jul 04, 2011 3:19 pm; edited 1 time in total

    2brutal
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  2brutal on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:04 pm

    I'happy with the rules Ben let the debates begin

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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  2brutal on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:06 pm

    Are you going to post the rankings
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:28 pm

    Not yet mate, I wasnt to know if theres any other Rules, Feel like theres something missing....

    There are well over 100 fighters in the rankings so it will take a while to do, Id start with rought draft of the Heavyweights now if you want, with the way I think they last where and the changed Id have made

    Also the final draft Ill get the rankings page looking good with Links to each fighers Sherdog pofile etc..

    1. Werdum
    2. Cain
    3. JDS (Because Brock hasnt had a win in a year, rule 3C)
    4. Lesnar
    5. Bigfoot
    6. Fedor
    7. Carwin
    8. Mir (beating Nelson moved him ahead of Overeem)
    9. Overeem
    10. Nog
    11. Barnett
    12. Monson
    13. Sergei (I think he should have been over Schaub because he was only removed from rankings due to inactivity and performance against Arlovski was so much better than say Bigfoot)
    14. Scahaub
    15. Travis Browne (reckon his 130 win knocks Nelson off 15th)

    Hows that?

    2brutal
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  2brutal on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:43 pm

    Yeah mate you know I think Cain is the man but I understand your reasons from the BBC post you did a while back explaining why

    What will happen with the reem if he beats werdum
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  FOWLERSHIGHFIVE on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:49 pm

    Ben, you have singled handedly engineered these Rankings to make sure Big Country is knocked off the bottom..................Ha ha only joking it looks good to me.

    Maybe we could look at some kind of timed vote (2 or 3 days) in cases of mass arguements and discussions where we can't agree.

    Just a suggestion!!!
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:53 pm

    2brutal wrote:Yeah mate you know I think Cain is the man but I understand your reasons from the BBC post you did a while back explaining why

    What will happen with the reem if he beats werdum

    Its neck and neck between Cain and Werdum but it will be sorted in a couple of weeks sure.

    The way I see it is Werdum in unqestionabally top if he wins, Overeem would drop 1 place I think Because I dont see Barnett moving up off his back as well as fair.

    1.Werdum 10.Overeem

    If Overeem wins like I think he will thats still only 1 currently ranked fighter I think he would move up to Over JDS depending on his performance so 3rd with a dominant win maby 4th if he scrapes by. Werdum to 5th behind JDS no matter what I think because of the Head to head loss and JDS current run.

    3/4.Overeem 5.Werdum

    Thats what I think. You?
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    rudeboyben84
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:55 pm

    FOWLERSHIGHFIVE wrote:Ben, you have singled handedly engineered these Rankings to make sure Big Country is knocked off the bottom..................Ha ha only joking it looks good to me.

    Maybe we could look at some kind of timed vote (2 or 3 days) in cases of mass arguements and discussions where we can't agree.

    Just a suggestion!!!

    Yeah mate after every event where ranked figthers fight we can all decide where the winner and looser goes and it will be a majority thing.

    Ill post when ranked fighters will be fighting and their ranking before the event on the new rankings.

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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  2brutal on Wed Jun 01, 2011 8:58 pm

    I think overeem wins 2 and that's what I was thinking 4th ish
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  The_Axe_Emperor on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:25 pm

    Just a few things mate.

    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    2. If you beat Someone ranked above you, you move above him in the rankings.



    So if someone non-ranked beats someone ranked 1, do they instantly become the new number 1 on that one win? E.G. GSP vs. Matt Serra



    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    3. Performances and Activity get taken into account.
    (a.) If you win by a devisive finish this should be seen as a better win than scraping an underseved SD, so now a fighter with a couple of undeserved SD's wont go unnoticed.


    Contradicts the first rule as you said only the official decision gets taken into account. E.G. Shogun- Machida 1, Machida won, so gets ranked higher, but does Shogun get credit for his performance? If he does then rule no.1 needs to change.



    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    (b.) If you are inactive for a year you move down
    (c.) If you havnt had a win in a year this should also be treated as inactivity but not as bad as (b.)


    How is not winning (effectively losing) fights throughout the year better than not fighting?



    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    (d.) Close ranked fighters should not only be based on records but recent performances.


    Surely this is just based on opinion then?



    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    4. Qualiy of opposition matters. Loosing to a non ranked fighter will either get him Ranked, or if he isnt ranked after beating you neither of you are. I.e No.5 in the rankings looses to a guy who wouldnt be top 50. Wether they both are ranked depends on wether with your name on his CV does the lower ranked guy become top 15?


    This contradicts many of the earlier rules.



    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    5. A fighter moving weight down a weight class will go up one place in the rankings below him. A fighter doing up a weight class will go down a place in the weight class above him. This is because Historically fighter cutting weight have more success in the weight class below than fighers moving up weight class.


    I think this rule should be taken out as it doesn't really work like you've said...




    I'd admire the work you put into the calendar and these rankings mate but some of these rules are confusing to say the least.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  hendos_right_hook on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:32 pm

    The_Axe_Emperor wrote:Just a few things mate.

    rudeboyben84 wrote:
    2. If you beat Someone ranked above you, you move above him in the rankings.



    So if someone non-ranked beats someone ranked 1, do they instantly become the new number 1 on that one win? E.G. GSP vs. Matt Serra

    I'd say that you can only move into first if you are already ranked. Anyone outside the top 10 or 15 should back it up with another top contender win and then be considered for 1st
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:51 pm

    Axe you said "So if someone non-ranked beats someone ranked 1, do they instantly become the new number 1 on that one win? E.G. GSP vs. Matt Serra"

    No that wouldnt always be the case, I said

    Loosing to a non ranked fighter will either get him Ranked, or if he isnt ranked after beating you neither of you are. I.e No.5 in the rankings looses to a guy who wouldnt be top 50. Wether they both are ranked depends on wether with your name on his CV does the lower ranked guy become top 15?

    Hiroyuki Takaya vs Robert Peralta is a good example, I think since Reralta's Record with Takaya doesnt make him look like a top 15 guy neither should be ranked for now. That make sence?
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:06 pm

    Also I to explain the

    "3. Performances and Activity get taken into account.
    (a.) If you win by a devisive finish this should be seen as a better win than scraping an underseved SD, so now a fighter with a couple of undeserved SD's wont go unnoticed."

    It should be taken into account how a fight finishes, its obviously a lesser factor so say Overeem beats Werdum but how good he looks in doing so will determin if I would put him over JDS or not. It wont change the initial winner gets ranked over looser but it will help decide their standing with others in the devision, That make sence at all?

    Theres always going to be opinion as a factor but thats why I reckon we do a majority vote if people are up for it.


    Feel free to rework the rankings guidelines, it was only a 1st draft and clearly needs a bit of work! Laughing



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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Sheldan on Wed Jun 01, 2011 10:47 pm

    How about to get the rankings started, those who want to all submit what they see as their top 15 in each weight class, and we work from there. Therefore, if we all have Cain as #1 HW, we put Cain at #1, but some believe Werdum should be #1, so we work out the average and go from there, that way i'd say it avoids fighter favourtism as the average is taken from what we all think. Just an idea.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Anfields5thKing on Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:51 pm

    I think Werdum should be ranked about Cain, simply based on who's beaten. Cain destroyed Lesnar, which everyone enjoyed, but realistically, Lesnar's not one of the 5 best HWs in the world.

    Werdum is the only man to actually beat the best of all time. That, for me, ranks higher than beating Brock.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Sheldan on Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:23 am

    Anfields5thKing wrote:I think Werdum should be ranked about Cain, simply based on who's beaten. Cain destroyed Lesnar, which everyone enjoyed, but realistically, Lesnar's not one of the 5 best HWs in the world.

    Werdum is the only man to actually beat the best of all time. That, for me, ranks higher than beating Brock.

    Exactly and this disagreement in opinion is why I should think those who wish to should submit a top 15 and work from there, I think it would give a fairer set of rankings and as long as people can support their decisions would be more accurate to the forum as a whole.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:38 pm

    Werdum beat Fedor, that was the biggest win in MMA history, Fedor was talked about on a different level to any fighter in the history of MMA and certainly in a different League to any heavies.

    That puts him top no two ways about it in my eyes.

    He aslo beat Bigfoot who is better than any of Cains other wins Nog being the 2nd biggest win)

    So Werdum's last 2 wins are much bigger than Cains (who only has 9 MMA fights) And Cain would have had to move down to 2nd with inactivity even if he was top.

    Anyone suggest any other changes?
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Sheldan on Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:45 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:Werdum beat Fedor, that was the biggest win in MMA history, Fedor was talked about on a different level to any fighter in the history of MMA and certainly in a different League to any heavies.

    That puts him top no two ways about it in my eyes.

    He aslo beat Bigfoot who is better than any of Cains other wins Nog being the 2nd biggest win)

    So Werdum's last 2 wins are much bigger than Cains (who only has 9 MMA fights) And Cain would have had to move down to 2nd with inactivity even if he was top.

    Anyone suggest any other changes?

    Cain would have had to move down due to inactivity when his last fight was in October, and Werdum's last fight was last June and he doesn't move down? scratch
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:49 pm

    OK well that doesnt really matter.

    What matters is Bigfoot was ranked Higher than Nog and Fedor was ranked higher than Lesnar.

    Whats Cains case for being top then?
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Sheldan on Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:38 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:OK well that doesnt really matter.

    What matters is Bigfoot was ranked Higher than Nog and Fedor was ranked higher than Lesnar.

    Whats Cains case for being top then?

    Since having his head knocked off by JDS (who I think should be above Werdum as well seeing how he beat him?) Werdum has beaten a Light Heavyweight in Mike Kyle, won a controversial decision against Big Foot who from what I remember hardly anybody had him in their top 10 until after the Arlovski fight, and then beat the #1 ranked heavyweight Fedor. Cain has easily beaten 5 guys since Werdum's fight with JDS, albeit Stojnic is a can, but at the time of the Kongo fight, Kongo was close to top 10 when Cain beat him, same applies for Rothwell. Then he easily beat Nog who was ranked around #6 at the time of the fight, don't know where you're getting Big Foot being ranked above Nog when Werdum beat him from. Then Cain easily beat Brock who the majority had at #1. If Werdum hadn't have got knocked out by JDS then i'd see more clearer why he would deserve to be at #1, but he was, thats why I have him at #3 behind Cain and JDS. If you say Overeem beating Werdum would send Cain to #1 and put Overeem at #2 or #3 due to him being at the bottom end of the top 10, why did Werdum beating Fedor put him at #1 when it is more or less a mirror image of the Overeem situation? You can't say it's because Fedor was so far ahead of the rest of the pack, because the level of competition he had been facing leading in to his fight with Werdum drew him a lot closer.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  payneNglory1 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:17 pm

    Maybe to get us started we could do something like,choose a division to start off with,then all of us post our own personal top 15,also Ben you could choose maybe 5 main sites,rankings to add to this aswell,then score each position from 15pts for 1st down to 1pt for 15th,then add the totals and see what it looks like.



    Rank Fighter Ben Chesty Anfield Meanie Fightmatrix,etc,etc Total
    1 cain 15 14 14 15 15 73
    2 werdum 14 15 15 14 14 72
    3 JDS 13 12 10 13 11 59
    4 Brock 12 10 8 11 13 54
    5 bigfoot 9 11 9 9 12 50

    This is just an example and not the ranking views of the names above,Come on do you think Anfield would of honestly given Brock more tha a 2 Laughing


    After that basicly stick with the way you were running it before,you usually do a good job of explaining why your moving a fighter up or down,if people disagree,i'm sure they won't be shy voicing it.
    You could always take the occasional vote on some of the decisions before you finalize them.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Sheldan on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:08 pm

    payneNglory1 wrote:Maybe to get us started we could do something like,choose a division to start off with,then all of us post our own personal top 15,also Ben you could choose maybe 5 main sites,rankings to add to this aswell,then score each position from 15pts for 1st down to 1pt for 15th,then add the totals and see what it looks like.



    Rank Fighter Ben Chesty Anfield Meanie Fightmatrix,etc,etc Total
    1 cain 15 14 14 15 15 73
    2 werdum 14 15 15 14 14 72
    3 JDS 13 12 10 13 11 59
    4 Brock 12 10 8 11 13 54
    5 bigfoot 9 11 9 9 12 50

    This is just an example and not the ranking views of the names above,Come on do you think Anfield would of honestly given Brock more tha a 2 Laughing


    After that basicly stick with the way you were running it before,you usually do a good job of explaining why your moving a fighter up or down,if people disagree,i'm sure they won't be shy voicing it.
    You could always take the occasional vote on some of the decisions before you finalize them.

    Yeah I suggested that a few posts earlier Payne, I think it makes things a lot simpler.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:18 pm

    OK What would help if everyone posts their own top 15 heavyweights and we will see what the consensus rankings are on the armbar.

    Sheldan I think this debate is a bit stupid, he clearly won 2 rounds against Bigfoot. If you see Lesnar as being above Fedor after going what 3-1 or 4-1 Its madness... Fuck what other sites say, You really have to get your head screwed on if you consider Lesnar better than Fedor when Fedor was still undefeated! Laughing

    And I didnt say Overeem goes to 2nd with a win over Werdum, Thats madness, I think Overeem will likely go to 4th with a win over Werdum. Its not like a Mirror Image at all, Fedor was the greatest fighter ever in the sport and undefeated for over a decade with more top wins than anyone else in the devision, Werdum is no where near that level, beating him isnt anything like Beating Fedor....

    Trevor Berbick beat Muhammed Ali when his career was coming to an end, does that mean that whoever beats Berbick is the greatest ever? I think you have trouble putting Werdums win over Fedor into perspective, It wasnt just a win over the number 1 ranked guy in the devision, its not like beating Edgar, Its more like beating Anderson but a bigger achievement given Fedors streak then.
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  rudeboyben84 on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:35 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:Not yet mate, I wasnt to know if theres any other Rules, Feel like theres something missing....

    There are well over 100 fighters in the rankings so it will take a while to do, Id start with rought draft of the Heavyweights now if you want, with the way I think they last where and the changed Id have made

    Also the final draft Ill get the rankings page looking good with Links to each fighers Sherdog pofile etc..

    1. Werdum
    2. Cain
    3. JDS (Because Brock hasnt had a win in a year, rule 3C)
    4. Lesnar
    5. Bigfoot
    6. Fedor
    7. Carwin
    8. Mir (beating Nelson moved him ahead of Overeem)
    9. Overeem
    10. Nog
    11. Barnett
    12. Monson
    13. Sergei (I think he should have been over Schaub because he was only removed from rankings due to inactivity and performance against Arlovski was so much better than say Bigfoot)
    14. Scahaub
    15. Travis Browne (reckon his 130 win knocks Nelson off 15th)

    Hows that?

    Lhw:

    1. Bones
    2. Shogun
    3. Evans
    4. Rampage
    5. Machida
    6. Hendo
    7. Forrest
    8. Belfort
    9. Davis
    10. Mousasi
    11. Lil Nog
    12. Feijao
    13. Franklin
    14. King Mo
    15. Vlad

    i Think thats roughly how the Lhw rankings looked... was that it? What you all think?
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    Re: New MMA Rankings with ranking System included

    Post  Sheldan on Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:41 pm

    rudeboyben84 wrote:OK What would help if everyone posts their own top 15 heavyweights and we will see what the consensus rankings are on the armbar.

    Sheldan I think this debate is a bit stupid, he clearly won 2 rounds against Bigfoot. If you see Lesnar as being above Fedor after going what 3-1 or 4-1 Its madness... Fuck what other sites say, You really have to get your head screwed on if you consider Lesnar better than Fedor when Fedor was still undefeated! Laughing

    And I didnt say Overeem goes to 2nd with a win over Werdum, Thats madness, I think Overeem will likely go to 4th with a win over Werdum. Its not like a Mirror Image at all, Fedor was the greatest fighter ever in the sport and undefeated for over a decade with more top wins than anyone else in the devision, Werdum is no where near that level, beating him isnt anything like Beating Fedor....

    Trevor Berbick beat Muhammed Ali when his career was coming to an end, does that mean that whoever beats Berbick is the greatest ever? I think you have trouble putting Werdums win over Fedor into perspective, It wasnt just a win over the number 1 ranked guy in the devision, its not like beating Edgar, Its more like beating Anderson but a bigger achievement given Fedors streak then.

    I didn't say Lesnar was better than Fedor when Fedor was still undefeated, I said after Fedor's loss, Lesnar's win over Carwin earned Lesnar that #1 spot, and then Velasquez beat Lesnar to earn it himself, and again, I never said Werdum winning makes him the greatest ever, at the time of when Werdum beat Fedor, Fedor may still have been #1, but he wasn't miles ahead of all the other guys in the heavyweight division due to the competition he had been facing.

    And again, you've completely took what I said out of context, Werdum was lower end of top 10 when he beat Fedor, and then went to #1 when he beat Fedor, regardless of how good Fedor was, Werdum went to #1 because he beat the #1. So if Overeem were to beat Werdum who is the current #1, why would Overeem not go to #1? It's not consistent.

    Anyway i'll get the ball rolling with my top 15 then:

    1. Velasquez
    2. Dos Santos
    3. Werdum
    4. Lesnar
    5. Carwin
    6. Silva
    7. Fedor
    8. Mir
    9. Overeem
    10. Noguiera
    11. Barnett
    12. Schaub
    13. Kharitonov
    14. Nelson
    15. Rogers

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